Friday Facts #250 - Dead end conclusion

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Zeblote
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Re: Friday Facts #250 - Dead end conclusion

Post by Zeblote » Fri Jul 06, 2018 3:26 pm

Special behavior: when picking up a Blueprinting Tool from the blueprint library, it is replaced with a "hand". This means that when pressing Q to drop it, it is not returned to the player inventory, instead, back to that slot in the blueprint library. This is so blueprints can easily be used directly from the library.
yes!!

zugbo
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Re: Friday Facts #250 - Dead end conclusion

Post by zugbo » Fri Jul 06, 2018 3:54 pm

The functionality of automatic blueprint library sharing in multiplayer is removed. The "shared blueprints" panel is removed. Blueprints and blueprint books in multiplayer will be shared by manually trading the items or by linking them in the chat. Blueprints or books linked in the chat can be clicked to pick up a copy that can be used as a normal item.
This is the only part I don't like. I had a great time in a public multiplayer game where people would log on and we would look through their blueprint library and take the prints we liked and offer suggestions on some things. This would be a lot harder or impossible if the prints all had to be manually shared, and a lot of the best ideas came from the work-in-progress blueprints that wouldn't have been selected for sharing on account of lacking polish.

Sharing blueprint copies through chat links solves the added problem of transferring blueprint items across space (if you need a mall blueprint from the library of the person working on a mine expansion, for example) but it introduces friction to make that person interrupt their work to find the print you need and post a link, rather than you looking through their library and finding the one you want without their involvement. And also, if I can't see everyone's library, maybe I don't know that they have a blueprint that would solve my problem, so I don't think to ask them for a link.

mooklepticon
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Re: Friday Facts #250 - Dead end conclusion

Post by mooklepticon » Fri Jul 06, 2018 3:54 pm

Have y'all seen this reddit thread on blueprint menu? I prefer it to blueprints as items. Why are they items, at all? I understand why they were items previously, but I think they can be abstracted, now.

https://www.reddit.com/r/factorio/comme ... blueprint/

Teraka
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Re: Friday Facts #250 - Dead end conclusion

Post by Teraka » Fri Jul 06, 2018 3:55 pm

While we're at it, could blueprint books have their own icons rather than use the icons of the currently selected blueprint? I find that often my blueprints will have a lot of icons detailing what's in them, making the books hard to recognize at a glance since I never know which blueprint is selected.

Edit: Oh and please please please could we get copper wire connections stored in blueprints? At least the ones that are manually modified, not necessarily every connection.

Hyratel
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Re: Friday Facts #250 - Dead end conclusion

Post by Hyratel » Fri Jul 06, 2018 4:06 pm

still not a fan of the toolbelt becoming a Linkbar UNLESS the main inventory is expanded to compensate, adding 10 slots for every row of toolbelt slots

TheTom
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Re: Friday Facts #250 - Dead end conclusion

Post by TheTom » Fri Jul 06, 2018 4:23 pm

Wiuthout chapters and titles being visible in a list the blueprint library is hardly usable to start with. Icons do not transport meaningwell enaough and grouping icons... sorry, fail.

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Cooldude2606
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Re: Friday Facts #250 - Dead end conclusion

Post by Cooldude2606 » Fri Jul 06, 2018 4:24 pm

The blueprint library button will be disabled until bots are researched
In my opinion this is a great idea but will this apply to the copy paste feature as having that before bots would still be nice and to help you copy what you have already build or help to plan your base. Personally I find it more fun to use blueprints to copy what you have already build so once there is the copy and paste feature I may never need anything but a decon-planer. Also to note is that it got very boring for me and some others I know as every map we did would always have the same blueprints, limiting it to copy what is already present on the map will bring back some creativity for multiplayer builds.
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QGamer
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Re: Friday Facts #250 - Dead end conclusion

Post by QGamer » Fri Jul 06, 2018 4:25 pm

I like proposal Zero quite a bit.
I have one more request: can we have a button or an option to sort the blueprints alphabetically?

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Re: Friday Facts #250 - Dead end conclusion

Post by Pinga » Fri Jul 06, 2018 4:29 pm

Will blueprints ever remember electrical cable connections? This is not just about the cable mess that bots make. There are several things that are impossible to blueprint right now, like a Power Switch in between 2 Big Poles, or some isolated power grid setups, like a nuclear reactor with it's own solar panels to start the process, etc.

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Philip017
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Re: Friday Facts #250 - Dead end conclusion

Post by Philip017 » Fri Jul 06, 2018 4:41 pm

I really like the proposal zero, i wonder why that wasn't the first proposal to begin with.

one comment regarding the quick copy function, imo it could function like this:
if i have the pasting blueprint in my hand, i should be able to keep it as a blueprint by placing it in my action bar or library.
pressing q clears my hand, and it is destroyed, but if i press ctrl-v again i will have the last copied blueprint in my hand again.

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Re: Friday Facts #250 - Dead end conclusion

Post by V453000 » Fri Jul 06, 2018 4:52 pm

Philip017 wrote:I really like the proposal zero, i wonder why that wasn't the first proposal to begin with.

...
That's simple, it's a complicated topic, we aren't perfect, and it took us time to discuss and get to this proposal. :)

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Re: Friday Facts #250 - Dead end conclusion

Post by Tankh » Fri Jul 06, 2018 4:56 pm

Hyratel wrote:still not a fan of the toolbelt becoming a Linkbar UNLESS the main inventory is expanded to compensate, adding 10 slots for every row of toolbelt slots
They said in an earlier FFF that they would indeed increase inventory to compensate

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Tomik
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Re: Friday Facts #250 - Dead end conclusion

Post by Tomik » Fri Jul 06, 2018 4:57 pm

Cute. The first Staff reply is only to the poster who is actually praising this change and not one of the complainers.
Image

Yehn
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Re: Friday Facts #250 - Dead end conclusion

Post by Yehn » Fri Jul 06, 2018 5:01 pm

Can we have a way to delete old announcement topics from our mods' discussion pages?

A lot of mine are now obsolete with the new "Discussion Notice" feature (ie, announcements telling people how to contact me about bugs, etc).

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Re: Friday Facts #250 - Dead end conclusion

Post by pleegwat » Fri Jul 06, 2018 5:19 pm

zugbo wrote:
The functionality of automatic blueprint library sharing in multiplayer is removed. The "shared blueprints" panel is removed. Blueprints and blueprint books in multiplayer will be shared by manually trading the items or by linking them in the chat. Blueprints or books linked in the chat can be clicked to pick up a copy that can be used as a normal item.
This is the only part I don't like. I had a great time in a public multiplayer game where people would log on and we would look through their blueprint library and take the prints we liked and offer suggestions on some things. This would be a lot harder or impossible if the prints all had to be manually shared, and a lot of the best ideas came from the work-in-progress blueprints that wouldn't have been selected for sharing on account of lacking polish.

Sharing blueprint copies through chat links solves the added problem of transferring blueprint items across space (if you need a mall blueprint from the library of the person working on a mine expansion, for example) but it introduces friction to make that person interrupt their work to find the print you need and post a link, rather than you looking through their library and finding the one you want without their involvement. And also, if I can't see everyone's library, maybe I don't know that they have a blueprint that would solve my problem, so I don't think to ask them for a link.
You could use a chest, though that would restrict its use to a single location in the base. Maybe a special blueprint chest which can be accessed from multiple locations? You'd also want to be able to copy blueprints held in a chest, rather than everyone having to move them to their library, copying them, then putting them back in the chest.

V453000
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Re: Friday Facts #250 - Dead end conclusion

Post by V453000 » Fri Jul 06, 2018 5:45 pm

Tomik wrote:Cute. The first Staff reply is only to the poster who is actually praising this change and not one of the complainers.
Sorry! :D I didn't see any question that would need answering, or a question I would know how to answer. Not all of us do everything. :)

happyfuel
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Re: Friday Facts #250 - Dead end conclusion

Post by happyfuel » Fri Jul 06, 2018 6:13 pm

Referencing bullet point 7.1: Would you please name the button "Update" rather than "Reassign"? Other than that, Proposal Zero sounds perfect!

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5thHorseman
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Re: Friday Facts #250 - Dead end conclusion

Post by 5thHorseman » Fri Jul 06, 2018 6:19 pm

The blueprint library button will be disabled until bots are researched or until any item is added to the library for the first time.
Could we have a clarification on this? I read it as "You can enable them at any time, but they're hidden until you do" but at least a poster above me read it as "They're completely disabled until you get bots" and didn't get corrected so now I'm a bit concerned.

Only a bit, because the first mod I'll install is one to unlock them, but still.
"So you completed the game with a spaghetti factory? Well I hand crafted a rocket and threw it into space with my bare hands!"

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CorrettoSambuca
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Re: Friday Facts #250 - Dead end conclusion

Post by CorrettoSambuca » Fri Jul 06, 2018 6:39 pm

I have to reiterate, have you considered a solution like the one presented in the Reddit thread https://www.reddit.com/r/factorio/comme ... blueprint/ ?

If so, what is the rationale against it and towards Proposal Zero? I know I would find the filesystem-like approach much more manageable, and I don't see the value in having blueprints as items.

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