How do you effectively supply non-laser defense perimeter

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KAA
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How do you effectively supply non-laser defense perimeter

Post by KAA » Wed Jun 13, 2018 2:36 pm

Hi there!
I saw related topics related to non-laser defense but did not find suitable answer to this particular question.

This topic is a hot one having big army on both sides - who defend laser turrets and who vote against them.
For me, laser turrets are the perfect weapon :) : do not require supply, easy to setup/move, one-shot everyone if upgraded appropriately, maximum distance,after space science packs receiving they are really so perfect that 2 lines of those turrets and 2 lines of walls make a perfect defense that even does not require repairing. (maybe once in 100 years)

So, I started a new map with a rule of non-using laser turret defense to make things more challenging. Also I play with aliens settings set hard so I'm attaching screenshot of how my map looks like after about 60 hours.

Also example of defense line is attached, it's a combination of usual turrets and flamethrowers. Supply is done by inserting "supply points" ti the perimeter, filling it with ammo, oil, repair, and so on. To re-supply the "supply points" I use robots for the base perimeter, and use "war supply train" for remote outposts.

Remote outpost defense is blueprinted by me, easy to setup and reliable - supply train does a good job. So it does not concern me.

The issue is with a main base. I need to expand now.

I can blueprint walls and turrets and "move" them after clearing the area, but having a big area covered with non-laser defense brings one big question:
How to effectively supply all defense perimeter with oil and ammo?

1) Belts do their job but extremely long distances require periodically inserted "supply points" otherwise ammo and OIL will flow to the distant sections too long I believe.
2) Roboports can be used to supply "supply points" with ammo, repair stuff and oil barrels, but not on such huge distances as I think. So, one independent Robots network should exist for one "Supply point" as i believe. Or do you see other options?
3) Because of the above, we have to supply these independent Robot network sections with trains. Trains are good at this but:
- I have to build and rebuild a lot of supply stations every time I want to expand, takes a lot of time, also a lot of chest getting deconstructed while expanding will make a mess.
- Train system will become total mess, the only way is to do huuuuge perimeter having rails running along the walls. which again will take a lot of time. Every corner will be complicated as hell in such perimeter. (laser turrets here are good as hell and simplify things dramatically here)
- Defense section that I will be building while expand will be defenseless until complete and war supply train will arrive which is too long period of time. How to handle it if pollution level will trigger aliens even if I clear their nearest bases? Surround by temporary laser turrets? Sounds like cheating if I play not using them.

As for temporary clearing alien bases I have no limitations. Already have MK II, shields, combat robots, rockets, uranium ammo, tank with shells, all this in sufficient amount so ready to war.

I will be glad to see the solutions you have or take any advises.

Screenshot 2018-06-13_17-39-58.png
Screenshot 2018-06-13_17-39-58.png (1.43 MiB) Viewed 1378 times
Screenshot 2018-06-13_16-50-09.png
Screenshot 2018-06-13_16-50-09.png (409.61 KiB) Viewed 1378 times

herkalurk
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Re: How do you effectively supply non-laser defense perimeter

Post by herkalurk » Wed Jun 13, 2018 7:33 pm

Your map seems very sparse on oil spots. In my map I try to find at least 1 place to put an oil pump nearish by. I setup 4 tanks and get it started pumping oil early. No need to bring oil in. Yes, there is a damage bonus for light oil, but it's simpler to just use the crude oil near where I am than to transport in refined light oil.

KAA
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Re: How do you effectively supply non-laser defense perimeter

Post by KAA » Wed Jun 13, 2018 8:46 pm

It's a Railway game preset so I expected such oil effect. Also I'm not looking for easy solution so I like the challenge of barrels logistic that's why what you say is not a problem for me.
Also production is easy modified for crude oil.

What concerns me more is that some oil gets removed when moving defense perimeter (because of pipes), deconstructed oil chest hard to manage, and in general, setup of defense without flamethrowers is much easier and still can defend well. So there are a set of reasons for not using flamethrowers to defend main base, especially with upgraded turrets.
But on the other side I'd like to have both because flamethrowers are great against big alien groups and they work really beautiful and I like just to watch them do their job )))

quyxkh
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Re: How do you effectively supply non-laser defense perimeter

Post by quyxkh » Wed Jun 13, 2018 9:05 pm

Automated defenses are for keeping clean territory clean, not for holding off endless hordes. The bugs are fleas, if they're swarming you're very far behind the eight ball. You don't need oil. Post your save?

herkalurk
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Re: How do you effectively supply non-laser defense perimeter

Post by herkalurk » Wed Jun 13, 2018 9:53 pm

Also, just noticed this on your first picture, why is your door for your train so wide? Trains only take up 2 spaces....that door has like 6 spaces extra to the right at least. Stone walls are cheaper than larger doors.

Hiladdar
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Re: How do you effectively supply non-laser defense perimeter

Post by Hiladdar » Tue Jun 19, 2018 1:11 am

Initially, I set up turrets, then add in flame throwers. I try to set up sectors, to be somewhat autonomous. I try to keep about 20-25 flame turrets per sector, with it's own oil tank, The turrets are there to be a back up and as biter bait for the flame turrets. If they are destroyed, so what, they are cheep and easy to replace. I do keep an eye on flame turrets taking damage since one destroyed flame turret can create a week spot or rally cripple a defense. The other thing I found useful is walking the perimeter to fix walls turrets and rearm turrets, as well as replace destroyed ones. Fueling the flame turrets, I usually find a secondary oil reserve and pump oil out of there. No refining needed, so much simpler then using heavy or light oil. In terms of wall, I start out with single line, then go to double, then add in dragon teeth as resources become available and needed in a specific sector

The other thing I found useful is to keep expanding the base, even if the real estate will not be needed for a long time. The key trigger for base extnsion, is pollution is hitting a biter next triggering chain attacks in a sector.

Once power generation is no longer an issue, I switch the flame turrets to lasers.

Hiladdar

SuicideJunkie
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Re: How do you effectively supply non-laser defense perimeter

Post by SuicideJunkie » Tue Jul 24, 2018 5:00 am

Artillery is the king of the battlefield.

1) Put a line of defense turrets at the edge of your artillery's autofire range.
2) Then, manually target artillery further out, and ONLY kill the spawners. Aim carefully, and leave the worms alive.
3) Profit. (Turrets no longer need resupply.)

Turrets will kill the occasional biters trying to start new bases inside your artillery auto range, and there will be no room for them to build spawners that can see your smog outside that range since the terrain is filled with worms instead.

herkalurk
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Re: How do you effectively supply non-laser defense perimeter

Post by herkalurk » Tue Jul 24, 2018 12:17 pm

SuicideJunkie wrote:Artillery is the king of the battlefield.

1) Put a line of defense turrets at the edge of your artillery's autofire range.
2) Then, manually target artillery further out, and ONLY kill the spawners. Aim carefully, and leave the worms alive.
3) Profit. (Turrets no longer need resupply.)

Turrets will kill the occasional biters trying to start new bases inside your artillery auto range, and there will be no room for them to build spawners that can see your smog outside that range since the terrain is filled with worms instead.
You really don't need to put turrets that far out. The biters will try to go back to the origin of the artillery fire, so they will come to you. I say let them come.

SuicideJunkie
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Re: How do you effectively supply non-laser defense perimeter

Post by SuicideJunkie » Wed Jul 25, 2018 2:55 am

The turrets aren't really for fending off the artillery aggro, although they will do that during step 2.

The turrets are for preventing any new bases from being built, which means no biters being spawned and no further artillery shots required after step 2 is complete.
Your turrets will only need a handful of bullets to fend off the occasional wandering cluster of about 10 pioneer biters, only one or two of which will be behemoths. Hand-filling the border turrets will be practical at that point, since a single stack of ammo will last for weeks.

herkalurk
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Re: How do you effectively supply non-laser defense perimeter

Post by herkalurk » Wed Jul 25, 2018 12:43 pm

SuicideJunkie wrote:The turrets aren't really for fending off the artillery aggro, although they will do that during step 2.

The turrets are for preventing any new bases from being built, which means no biters being spawned and no further artillery shots required after step 2 is complete.
Your turrets will only need a handful of bullets to fend off the occasional wandering cluster of about 10 pioneer biters, only one or two of which will be behemoths. Hand-filling the border turrets will be practical at that point, since a single stack of ammo will last for weeks.
This is why I use the train instead of fixed turrets. I have an artillery train go to 6 sites around the map, wait for a minute to see if anything new is in range and fire, then move on. Most often it comes back using less than 10 shells. I only have 4 static artillery turrets at the main production facility where the shells are made. You don't need to send out restocking trains since the train that has the stock also shoots.

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