Friday Facts #246 - The GUI update (Part 3)

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Re: Friday Facts #246 - The GUI update (Part 3)

Postby Light » Wed Jun 13, 2018 5:17 am

The only thing I wonder about is if map generation could better integrate the RSO mod. That's the one major detriment is that you'll never know if both the mod settings AND vanilla sliders are ideal without a great deal of loading up maps and using cheat mode to drop radars. Lots of time is wasted doing this.

Hopefully that's something you can look into given the heavy popularity of the mod.
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Re: Friday Facts #246 - The GUI update (Part 3)

Postby bobingabout » Wed Jun 13, 2018 8:06 am

when doing map spawn rate testing, I usually open the map editor, not start a new game. it lets me browse around and see what's where.
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Re: Friday Facts #246 - The GUI update (Part 3)

Postby Alice3173 » Wed Jun 13, 2018 8:43 am

Koub wrote:Every slider (whether discrete or continuous) should support mouse-over mouse wheel scroll adjustment. For discrete sliders (like in terrain settings), the tooltip should display the setting value.

Continuous sliders should have reasonable increments when modified with mouse-over + wheel (not too small, because having a one pixel increment size would be bothersome).

Could even make it possible to modify the increments with something like ctrl+mousewheel for even finer control.
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Re: Friday Facts #246 - The GUI update (Part 3)

Postby Koub » Wed Jun 13, 2018 11:31 am

Yeah, like 1 or 2% increments with mouse wheel, and say 10% with Ctrl or Shift-Scroll.
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Re: Friday Facts #246 - The GUI update (Part 3)

Postby Tricorius » Wed Jun 13, 2018 3:58 pm

flapje wrote:
If you use a seed when you make a world the seed will be copied if you use the map string. But if you leave the string blank when you make the world (meaning random) it will also be blank in future worlds witch uses the map string.
It would still be a cool future do.

(Sorry for my English it is not my first language)


This makes sense, and is helpful. Thanks!

No need to be sorry, your English is great. :)

So it sounds like one *can* use the map string to maintain settings across games and still get randomized maps, so long as the original game didn’t use a seed (I don’t use seeds).
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Re: Friday Facts #246 - The GUI update (Part 3)

Postby eradicator » Wed Jun 13, 2018 4:29 pm

Tricorius wrote:
flapje wrote:If you use a seed when you make a world the seed will be copied if you use the map string. But if you leave the string blank when you make the world (meaning random) it will also be blank in future worlds witch uses the map string.
It would still be a cool future do.
(Sorry for my English it is not my first language)

This makes sense, and is helpful. Thanks!
No need to be sorry, your English is great. :)
So it sounds like one *can* use the map string to maintain settings across games and still get randomized maps, so long as the original game didn’t use a seed (I don’t use seeds).

I don't see the point. If you want to use everything but the seed from a map string...then you simply press the randomize button, or manually make the field "empty" by pressing the delete button. If on the other hand you do want the seed then with that solution you'd have no way to get it if you didn't originally set one.
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Re: Friday Facts #246 - The GUI update (Part 3)

Postby AcolyteOfRocket » Thu Jun 14, 2018 9:25 am

Koub wrote:Yeah, like 1 or 2% increments with mouse wheel, and say 10% with Ctrl or Shift-Scroll.


You could have these variables set in a player options menu, to make sure you satisfy the max number of customers...
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Re: Friday Facts #246 - The GUI update (Part 3)

Postby hAndrew » Thu Jun 14, 2018 11:48 am

" My hope is that the majority of players will open the preview, play with the settings, then close the preview ... "

Why not just make this part of the UI?
I.e. a radio box with two options
( ) Play this exact map.
(o) Play a newly generated map with these settings.
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Re: Friday Facts #246 - The GUI update (Part 3)

Postby Kalamel » Thu Jun 14, 2018 3:31 pm

That looked nice. I love it!

But I have a suggestion. Can you indicate starting point on preview too? I don't want to be spawn on island ever again.
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Re: Friday Facts #246 - The GUI update (Part 3)

Postby Koub » Fri Jun 15, 2018 5:48 am

AcolyteOfRocket wrote:
Koub wrote:Yeah, like 1 or 2% increments with mouse wheel, and say 10% with Ctrl or Shift-Scroll.


You could have these variables set in a player options menu, to make sure you satisfy the max number of customers...

TBH, I think this too much optionning : options on how options should accept input is a step too far to my liking.

hAndrew wrote:
" My hope is that the majority of players will open the preview, play with the settings, then close the preview ... "

Why not just make this part of the UI?
I.e. a radio box with two options
( ) Play this exact map.
(o) Play a newly generated map with these settings.


This is genius
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Re: Friday Facts #246 - The GUI update (Part 3)

Postby Jap2.0 » Fri Jun 15, 2018 3:45 pm

Koub wrote:
hAndrew wrote:
" My hope is that the majority of players will open the preview, play with the settings, then close the preview ... "

Why not just make this part of the UI?
I.e. a radio box with two options
( ) Play this exact map.
(o) Play a newly generated map with these settings.


This is genius

This.
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Re: Friday Facts #246 - The GUI update (Part 3)

Postby alefu » Fri Jun 15, 2018 4:36 pm

Henry Loenwind wrote:The whole "preset" area makes no sense at all unless you know what is it.

First there is that row with "bright orange text field with settings icon and some text, weird button, return/re-run button". Nothing here indicates that this is a preset selection or how to use it. Then there is some white text that is not attached to anything, so it looks like some general information. And then there's a whole bunch of random settings that you seem to be supposed to edit before pressing "play".

My suggestion:

1.) Label the "preset" field. "Preset: " would be a good start.
2.) If it is supposed to be a dropdown, make it look like one.
3.) Is that "settings icon" thing clickable? I can't tell, but if it is not, lose it. If it is, make it a separate button.
4.) Drop the preset description in the main dialog and add it into the dropped down list.
5.) Hide all settings below the preset selection behind a "Customize..." button.
6.) Move the "Reset to preset values button" (I'm guessing that's what the red button does?) to the settings.

Unrelated to this:

* I don't think the "editable button" thing will work. That's a concept that doesn't exist anywhere.
* The "randomize" button should be a dice. "Shuffle" has a different meaning, it is a mode switch, not an one time action.
* I have no idea what the "replay" check box does, and I've played for a couple hundred hours...
* The first map exchange string button should directly copy to the clipboard (with a popup that tells the user that it has been copied). The second one should be disabled normally and light up (maybe even blink) if it detects a valid exchange string (different from the last one that was copied there) in the clipboard. Also, that string needs some human readable marker like "FactorioMapSettings:(.....)"
* Um, also those map exchange buttons look reversed in their meaning to me.
* The "Advanced" tab looks weird. I'd suggest to use the same layout as the "Pollution"/"Enemy expansion"/"Evolution" areas. Bold header line, settings below. And all of them actually could be sliders, which would better distribute them horizontally.
* The "ATTENTION!!!" icon on the "Preview" button makes no sense. It seems to say "you must go in here because there's something wrong you have to correct".
* On the sound settings dialog, the "Reset" button has no real use case. The use case "user changes some values, resets to default, changes them differently, confirms" just doesn't happen in sound settings. They either change their mind completely, or they are happy with their changes. That button actually makes sense for map setting, especially if the preview is on.
* Also, the sound settings dialog feel cramped compared to the old one.
* I really hope the real engine doesn't produce blurry text like the mock-ups have. (Hint: When scaling images by integer factors, set it to "pixel resize".)
* Windows that don't have action buttons on the right side (and title icons on the left) work better with centered title lines. At the far left the title gets disconnected from the content as it if far away from the users' attention area.
* The setting dialog actually has the same issue with the "Play" button. As it nearly has full screen height in 1080, even in the scaled down version, the button is too far away from the users' attention area. The users will see all the options first and look at those for a while before letting their eyes wander to find the play button. (Starting with the detailed settings collapsed behind a button would fix this, too.)

Some general things:

* Users should NEVER have to guess if an element is clickable, editable and where it belongs to.
* When mixing checkboxes and iPhone-style toggles, use checkboxes for "on/off" and toggles for switching between 2 values which are displayed left/right of the toggle. Or just don't mix them.
* Labels should end with a ":" if the are left of the value. Even if they are in row headers. Column headers should never have a ":".
* Mind your plural. While some words can stay singular in a plural list ("Advanced"), pluralize as much as possible. It's "Enemies", even so there only is one type of enemy. This is not a street fighter game where you fight exactly one enemy at a time...
* Mind the___________________________________gap. Alsobetweenbuttons.


I hope the developers hear you, these are all valid points.
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Re: Friday Facts #246 - The GUI update (Part 3)

Postby leoch » Fri Jun 15, 2018 7:33 pm

Nice work on the GUI.

Now you can try improving map-generation to use user-centric units instead of internal model parameters, e.g. replace the size/frequency/richness stuff with 'average amount of ore per km^2" (or other area unit), compactness, and randomness. (You can even use the same model underneath, but convert from user-friendly input units to internal model parameters.)
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Re: Friday Facts #246 - The GUI update (Part 3)

Postby Oktokolo » Fri Jun 15, 2018 9:48 pm

hAndrew wrote:Why not just make this part of the UI?
I.e. a radio box with two options
( ) Play this exact map.
(o) Play a newly generated map with these settings.

That could be surprising for players if the latter option is selected by default or keeps beeing selected from last time the player started a new game. Players tend to play hundreds of hours on a single map and should be expected to forget about what they changed in that dialog that is literally full of stuff to change (wich is fine as long as the defaults are sane).
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Re: Friday Facts #246 - The GUI update (Part 3)

Postby Wubinator » Fri Jun 15, 2018 10:14 pm

Where is the new FFF?
You're not telling me that you are going to mess up a streak of 246 right?
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Re: Friday Facts #246 - The GUI update (Part 3)

Postby eradicator » Fri Jun 15, 2018 11:20 pm

Wubinator wrote:Where is the new FFF?
You're not telling me that you are going to mess up a streak of 246 right?

It's not the first time they used up the last second of their local timezone.
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Re: Friday Facts #246 - The GUI update (Part 3)

Postby meganothing » Sun Jun 17, 2018 1:48 pm

Oktokolo wrote:
hAndrew wrote:Why not just make this part of the UI?
I.e. a radio box with two options
( ) Play this exact map.
(o) Play a newly generated map with these settings.

That could be surprising for players if the latter option is selected by default or keeps beeing selected from last time the player started a new game. Players tend to play hundreds of hours on a single map and should be expected to forget about what they changed in that dialog that is literally full of stuff to change (wich is fine as long as the defaults are sane).


What's there to remember? The player chose the options the last time. Either he wants them again or not. In the latter case he has to go back to defaults or change what he didn't like the last time. It has nothing to do with the decision whether to play with the seed that is shown as a map at the moment or not (which could be the seed of the previous map or not).
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Re: Friday Facts #246 - The GUI update (Part 3)

Postby Oktokolo » Sun Jun 17, 2018 8:43 pm

meganothing wrote:
Oktokolo wrote:
hAndrew wrote:Why not just make this part of the UI?
I.e. a radio box with two options
( ) Play this exact map.
(o) Play a newly generated map with these settings.

That could be surprising for players if the latter option is selected by default or keeps beeing selected from last time the player started a new game. Players tend to play hundreds of hours on a single map and should be expected to forget about what they changed in that dialog that is literally full of stuff to change (wich is fine as long as the defaults are sane).

What's there to remember?

Whether you chose to newly generate or not the last time you started a new map.
Player starts a new game, looks at preview and decides to go with it. Then he gets another map than he saw in the preview because forgetting to check the options wich remembered that he has gone for a newly generated map last time.
Radio boxes are the wrong choice. Buttons are much better for selecting an action to perform.
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Re: Friday Facts #246 - The GUI update (Part 3)

Postby Pasmans23 » Thu Jun 21, 2018 5:05 pm

The sliders in the map generation are more visually pleasing for sure, but I would like also a description "Big", "Small", "Huge",... like previously. the from left to right concept is very good as well, would've never thought of that myself
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Re: Friday Facts #246 - The GUI update (Part 3)

Postby agentgoblin » Sat Jun 23, 2018 7:26 pm

My god, dont worry about interface "standards" because they dont exist. :x Just made one style in the game and relax. All that a player needs to know that in any in-game windows he can found "next/ok/confirm" button on one side and "back/cancel" button on another side. And some additional buttons between them.
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