pY Raw Ores Discussion

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nagapito
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Re: pY Raw Ores Discussion

Post by nagapito » Sun Jun 16, 2019 8:35 pm

Can confirm.

The not so bad news is that this can easly be circunvented by adding the RSO mod.

Yes, not a fix, but still a solution until it gets fixed.

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Re: pY Raw Ores Discussion

Post by gru89 » Thu Jun 20, 2019 6:44 pm

With the actual version and even with earlier versions of raw ores I don´t get any ressources load.
Start new game. I cannot see any ressources or even start a game. No error message from factory or windows10

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Re: pY Raw Ores Discussion

Post by pyanodon » Thu Jun 20, 2019 8:12 pm

go to mod options and enable py generation ores.
pY Coal processing mod
Discord: Pyanodon #5791

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Re: pY Raw Ores Discussion

Post by gru89 » Fri Jun 21, 2019 5:01 am

Hey Pyanodon,

thanks for your fast comment.

I´ve activated the option in die mod options. No further effect.
"New game" - no ressources.

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Re: pY Raw Ores Discussion

Post by kingarthur » Fri Jun 21, 2019 5:39 am

gru89 wrote:
Fri Jun 21, 2019 5:01 am
Hey Pyanodon,

thanks for your fast comment.

I´ve activated the option in die mod options. No further effect.
"New game" - no ressources.

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Make sure you've updated pycoalprocessing and that the mod setting for ore gen is off. Ie no check mark.

There was an issue with the setting being inverted that got fixed today.

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Re: pY Raw Ores Discussion

Post by Anon2k » Fri Jun 21, 2019 3:27 pm

Invalid name (must be mk3) and circuit board (must be 3 level).

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Re: pY Raw Ores Discussion

Post by Crixomix » Sat Jun 22, 2019 3:33 pm

Hello,

I am here to ask a question regarding coppper processing 01 research. It seems to me that it is actually very bad? I might be missing something though and I am not here to be disrespectful, but may I share what I have discovered?

I use the helmod mod to create production chains and easily see inputs vs. outputs, required power, required buildings, etc.

So we will go off of a basic assumption of an output of 15 copper plates per second.

Using the hot air + copper ore in a foundry, you get the following requirements:

80 copper ore per second. 50 foundries. A few buildings to create the hot air. And 14.2 megawatts of sustained power.

Using the grade 2 copper chain and casting units, here's the requirements.

62.5 copper ore per second (So a decent savings, but not insane). 90 casting units, 19 automated screeners, and 50 jaw crushers. (holy crap thats 3x the buildings!). 52.2 megawatts of power. Holy crap thats about 4x the power requirement!

So maybe I'm missing something, but shouldn't the second chain be better? I love to save a little bit of ore, but it shouldn't take 3x the buildings and 4x the power to do so. With the iron chain that you unlock with iron processing 01, it's significantly BETTER. The one with just processed iron ore and hot air, it has a VERY slight increase in power required (13.5MW to 14.2MW) But you are using 25 iron ore instead of 80! That's less than a third of the ore! And it ends up being 50 ish buildings either way.

This is what I expected from the copper ore 01 research, but the copper ore research requires so many buildings and so much power for only a 25% decrease in ore usage that I wouldn't ever use it. Please let me know if this is intended and you're simply supposed to ignore the grade 2 copper chain and really wait until you get copper 02 to make a new chain.

Thank you for reading.

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Re: pY Raw Ores Discussion

Post by Blokus » Sat Jun 22, 2019 3:41 pm

Crixomix wrote:
Sat Jun 22, 2019 3:33 pm
Hello,

I am here to ask a question regarding coppper processing 01 research. It seems to me that it is actually very bad? I might be missing something though and I am not here to be disrespectful, but may I share what I have discovered?

I use the helmod mod to create production chains and easily see inputs vs. outputs, required power, required buildings, etc.

So we will go off of a basic assumption of an output of 15 copper plates per second.

Using the hot air + copper ore in a foundry, you get the following requirements:

80 copper ore per second. 50 foundries. A few buildings to create the hot air. And 14.2 megawatts of sustained power.

Using the grade 2 copper chain and casting units, here's the requirements.

62.5 copper ore per second (So a decent savings, but not insane). 90 casting units, 19 automated screeners, and 50 jaw crushers. (holy crap thats 3x the buildings!). 52.2 megawatts of power. Holy crap thats about 4x the power requirement!

So maybe I'm missing something, but shouldn't the second chain be better? I love to save a little bit of ore, but it shouldn't take 3x the buildings and 4x the power to do so. With the iron chain that you unlock with iron processing 01, it's significantly BETTER. The one with just processed iron ore and hot air, it has a VERY slight increase in power required (13.5MW to 14.2MW) But you are using 25 iron ore instead of 80! That's less than a third of the ore! And it ends up being 50 ish buildings either way.

This is what I expected from the copper ore 01 research, but the copper ore research requires so many buildings and so much power for only a 25% decrease in ore usage that I wouldn't ever use it. Please let me know if this is intended and you're simply supposed to ignore the grade 2 copper chain and really wait until you get copper 02 to make a new chain.

Thank you for reading.
IMO this is really a PH issue, since PH is what adds the hot air recipes in the first place, and hot air is already giving +50% yield in the copper ore recipe. Anyway, I agree there are some places where hot air is a bit too powerful.

As for this particular case, I hadn't even noticed the grade 2 -> plate recipe when I was in the early game, but on its face without looking at the numbers, it looks really bad, both slow and not particularly efficient on ore. Generally molten is where you want to wind up, but there are cases where rushing for the first way to make molten is prohibitive, such as the first way of making molten aluminum.

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Re: pY Raw Ores Discussion

Post by Crixomix » Sat Jun 22, 2019 4:19 pm

Not sure if I totally agree it's a PH issue. Even without the hot air recipe. I'm not sure if I would switch to grade 2 chain. Because it just takes so many buildings and so much power. Though the efficiency would be about 2x better than the basic foundry recipe. But I still don't think it's worth it when it takes 3x buildings and 4x power.

My main argument is: Look at how good the chain is when you research iron ore processing 01. It's super strong. Totally worth making a new setup. But the grade 2 copper chain is, in most ways, just worse. Unless you're crazy strapped for ore, and you need to milk every single unit, I don't think anyone would switch because the setup is 3x the size and 4x the power.

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Re: pY Raw Ores Discussion

Post by Blokus » Sat Jun 22, 2019 8:44 pm

Crixomix wrote:
Sat Jun 22, 2019 4:19 pm
Not sure if I totally agree it's a PH issue. Even without the hot air recipe. I'm not sure if I would switch to grade 2 chain. Because it just takes so many buildings and so much power. Though the efficiency would be about 2x better than the basic foundry recipe. But I still don't think it's worth it when it takes 3x buildings and 4x power.

My main argument is: Look at how good the chain is when you research iron ore processing 01. It's super strong. Totally worth making a new setup. But the grade 2 copper chain is, in most ways, just worse. Unless you're crazy strapped for ore, and you need to milk every single unit, I don't think anyone would switch because the setup is 3x the size and 4x the power.
Better way of putting it: this particular chain is actually really bad, but in general the hot air recipes outcompete some of the more complicated chains, even when the recipe they are competing with is decent.

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Re: pY Raw Ores Discussion

Post by mathiaszealot » Sat Jun 22, 2019 10:23 pm

Seems like the easiest way to get this grade 2 -> plate chain more in line with the rest without harshly impacting the other chains would be something similar to the recipe multiplication done on some of the other chains to balance out the effectiveness of the hot air recipes. If the Casting Machine Grade 2 Copper -> Copper Plate recipe were tripled to 15 Grade 2 Copper -> 6 Copper Plates, it would cut the number of Casting Machines needed down to 1/3. It would still require a sizeable base to do a full yellow belt, but not the 90 Casting Machines at current.

Frankly, the starter molten copper recipe from Copper Processing 2 could be toned down a bit as well. it's a huge jump in ore efficiency. It takes 89% less ore right now!
8.00 ore/plate: Starting direct smelt
5.33 ore/plate: Hot air addition (needs coal processing 1, steel techs)
4.17 ore/plate: Copper Processing 1 (huge footprint, power hungry)
0.43 ore/plate: Copper Processing 2 (whoa)
0.21 ore/plate: Copper Processing 3 (takes a not insignificant amount of Nickel, Chromium, and Nexelit via industrial solvent and grease for a modest reduction in copper use, alongside a footprint increase for all the wet scrubbers)

To buff the ore efficiency of the Copper Processing 1 setup a bit you could go a step further and make it 15 Grade 2 Copper -> 8 Copper Plates. Then the ore efficiency would be a bit closer to the rest of the curve, but still much bulkier and energy hungry. If you simultaneously dropped the Grade 4 Copper -> Molten Copper from producing 21 molten, down to 15 or so, the curve would shape up like:
8.00 ore/plate: Starting direct smelt
5.33 ore/plate: Hot air addition
3.13 ore/plate: Copper Processing 1
0.60 ore/plate: Copper Processing 2
0.21 ore/plate: Copper Processing 3

(I'm fairly certain these are set up right in HelMod, but please correct me if I've made a mistake. Both the last 2 use the Hot air boosted Low Grade Copper -> 3 Plates, because why wouldn't you)
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Edit: Ran out the Copper Processing 4 chains for fun because they're just some post-processing. :geek:
0.261 ore/plate: Copper Processing 4 - Molten from Direct Sintering from High Grade (actually worse!)
0.181 ore/plate: Copper Processing 4 - Molten from Reduced 99.9%
0.138 ore/plate: Copper Processing 4 - Molden from Sintered via Reduced 99.9%

I don't have much experience at that level in Py's Mods, but it seems a bit odd that the direct sintering from high grade is less efficient. Might be fixable with a buff to the Sinter -> Molten and a reduction to the Reduced -> Sintered ratios

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Re: pY Raw Ores Discussion

Post by pyanodon » Sun Jun 23, 2019 2:21 pm

mathiaszealot wrote:
Sat Jun 22, 2019 10:23 pm

I don't have much experience at that level in Py's Mods, but it seems a bit odd that the direct sintering from high grade is less efficient. Might be fixable with a buff to the Sinter -> Molten and a reduction to the Reduced -> Sintered ratios
Each reduced makes 2 sintered.
pY Coal processing mod
Discord: Pyanodon #5791

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Re: pY Raw Ores Discussion

Post by mathiaszealot » Tue Jun 25, 2019 10:01 pm

pyanodon wrote:
Sun Jun 23, 2019 2:21 pm
mathiaszealot wrote:
Sat Jun 22, 2019 10:23 pm

I don't have much experience at that level in Py's Mods, but it seems a bit odd that the direct sintering from high grade is less efficient. Might be fixable with a buff to the Sinter -> Molten and a reduction to the Reduced -> Sintered ratios
Each reduced makes 2 sintered.
I was a bit distracted to run out the ratios to get practical changes before. If you want to lock down the cost of the Sintered blocks, buildings required, and speed per unit, you can double the recipe, then adjust from there.

Rather than:
1 High Grade -> 50 Molten
1 High Grade -> 1 Sintered -> 47 Molten
1 High Grade -> 1 Reduced -> 60 Molten
1 High Grade -> 1 Reduced -> 2 Sintered -> 94 Molten

If you change the Reduced -> Sintered recipe to be 2 Reduced to 3 Sintered (scaling the rest to 6 seconds, 4 Lime, 150 Syngas, 150 Pressured Air), while boosting the 1 Sintered -> 55 Molten, it becomes:

1 High Grade -> 50 Molten
1 High Grade -> 1 Sintered -> 55 Molten
1 High Grade -> 1 Reduced -> 60 Molten
2 High Grade -> 2 Reduced -> 3 Sintered -> 165 Molten, or 82.5 Molten/High Grade

I just don't see the point at current for the direct High Grade -> Sintered Copper recipe, as it costs resources to get you less output.

edit: corrected Sintered to Molten for PyRO 1.4.6

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Re: pY Raw Ores Discussion

Post by aklesey1 » Sun Jun 30, 2019 8:16 pm

Hey pyanodon i have balance suggestion for PYRO
Optical fiber recipe can use more plastic bars if all PY mods are enabled
I want to say there're no problem to produce many plastic bars in PYHT and in PYRO and of course in PYPH
My very favorite way -
Plsastic_from_acetone.png
Plsastic_from_acetone.png (59.01 KiB) Viewed 408 times
Just look - it is better if the plastic bars will be divided in equal proportions

Was:
1,6666 plastic bars on 1 optical fiber
Original_optical_fiber_recipe.png
Original_optical_fiber_recipe.png (97.8 KiB) Viewed 408 times
Become:
2 plastic bars on 1 optical fiber
Optical_fiber_usemore_plastics.png
Optical_fiber_usemore_plastics.png (84.79 KiB) Viewed 408 times
People do not scold much if my proposal for changes in the recipe balance does not suit u and you have problems with the production of plastic bars

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Re: pY Raw Ores Discussion

Post by liwers » Thu Jul 04, 2019 2:10 pm

Hi Pyanodon, Kitty bring two(or three) suggestions from Chinese Community to you,

One is the requirement of more co-molten recipes.. You see, there are a few alloy, such as duralumin, has the co-molten recipe, however, others like Tin-Chromium/Niobium-Titanium/Nb-Fe, can't be produce directly by two molten metals.. The feedback said, quote, 'C'mon! This pyRO, it can't be true we still use these oldfashion ways to create higher-tier materials', end quote.. :P

To the second place, it's a little far from pyRO, but the suggestion ifself talk about the Molten Titanium, so uh.. The feedback suggested, that the Titanium Tetrachloride's recipe, which produce by Coal Dust/Titanium Plate/Chlorine, gives a really low effeciency on producing it.. That said, how about add a new recipe, replace Titanium Plate by Molten Titanium..

Let's make the calculation: the present recipe is, 10 Coal Dust+4 Titanium Plate+40 Chlorine, which requires 20 Molten Titanium and 4 seconds.. or reverse it, 20 Molten Titanium can create 1 Titanium Tetrachloride in 4 seconds.. If the new recipe added, a 20% bonus of produce and 33% of time decrease, or should Kitty said, 20 Molten Titanium can create 1.2 Titanium Tetracholride in 3 seconds, simplify this, 100 Molten Titanium can create 6 Titanium Tetracholride in 3 seconds.. Ultimately, the total production raise from 45 to 120(per minute), that's 166% up..! How technologi-style..!

The last one, though Kitty really think this is actually too far from pyRO, and it's not possible to make a change, but Kitty decide to include it here by the way: a new recuit Pyanodonian complained, the Fertilizer consumes too much Bones, and since we can create Bone Meal through Bones and Meat, why don't we disassemble the Bone Meal to Bones and Meat? :shock:

Well, in Kitty's opinion, this advice was sucks, it totally ruined the gameplay experience of extreme complexity, that Kitty have certain reservation on it..

That's all today,

Meow..!

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Re: pY Raw Ores Discussion

Post by immortal_sniper1 » Thu Jul 04, 2019 3:25 pm

liwers wrote:
Thu Jul 04, 2019 2:10 pm
Hi Pyanodon, Kitty bring two(or three) suggestions from Chinese Community to you,

One is the requirement of more co-molten recipes.. You see, there are a few alloy, such as duralumin, has the co-molten recipe, however, others like Tin-Chromium/Niobium-Titanium/Nb-Fe, can't be produce directly by two molten metals.. The feedback said, quote, 'C'mon! This pyRO, it can't be true we still use these oldfashion ways to create higher-tier materials', end quote.. :P

To the second place, it's a little far from pyRO, but the suggestion ifself talk about the Molten Titanium, so uh.. The feedback suggested, that the Titanium Tetrachloride's recipe, which produce by Coal Dust/Titanium Plate/Chlorine, gives a really low effeciency on producing it.. That said, how about add a new recipe, replace Titanium Plate by Molten Titanium..

Let's make the calculation: the present recipe is, 10 Coal Dust+4 Titanium Plate+40 Chlorine, which requires 20 Molten Titanium and 4 seconds.. or reverse it, 20 Molten Titanium can create 1 Titanium Tetrachloride in 4 seconds.. If the new recipe added, a 20% bonus of produce and 33% of time decrease, or should Kitty said, 20 Molten Titanium can create 1.2 Titanium Tetracholride in 3 seconds, simplify this, 100 Molten Titanium can create 6 Titanium Tetracholride in 3 seconds.. Ultimately, the total production raise from 45 to 120(per minute), that's 166% up..! How technologi-style..!

The last one, though Kitty really think this is actually too far from pyRO, and it's not possible to make a change, but Kitty decide to include it here by the way: a new recuit Pyanodonian complained, the Fertilizer consumes too much Bones, and since we can create Bone Meal through Bones and Meat, why don't we disassemble the Bone Meal to Bones and Meat? :shock:

Well, in Kitty's opinion, this advice was sucks, it totally ruined the gameplay experience of extreme complexity, that Kitty have certain reservation on it..

That's all today,

Meow..!
1 i agree but i think these recipes with molten should be better
2 yes it is expensive but i find the Cl2 to be my main problem
3 new fertilizer was supposed to come in pyAL and YES it is expensive

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Re: pY Raw Ores Discussion

Post by pyanodon » Sat Jul 06, 2019 10:18 am

thats good ideas, i will add some
pY Coal processing mod
Discord: Pyanodon #5791

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