Speedrunning category step% now official

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Schorty
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Speedrunning category step% now official

Post by Schorty » Thu Mar 22, 2018 10:09 am

Hey there,

over on reddit I made some posts about rain9441 and his ambitions to grow the speedrunning community. He stated, that the default options* run and even any%** weren't really accessible for the "average joe", because a lot of learning and work has to go into it, to even be remotely competitive. That's why he envisioned a category, that's faster to run. That wasn't step% yet. It was steelaxe%***. But this run was only about 7 to 9 minutes. Even tho it is the run with the most people attempting it, it leaves something to be desired. That's where step%**** is coming in. It's a good mix between short and complex and still has much potential to beeing optimised. Also it's really fun :)
I just want to create awareness to this kind of playstyle. It gets more fun, the more people are doing it, so give it a try and submit your runs on speedrun.com/Factorio#Watch_Your_Step

Happy Speedrunning,
Schorty

* In a default option run you don't change the map options and play on a random map and end the run by firing a rocket into space

** In any% you have the same goal as in default options, but you are allowed to change the map settings and even use a set map seed/exchange string

*** steelaxe% has the same rules as any%, but the run ends by equipping a steel axe

**** step% has the same rules as any%, but the run ends by getting run over by a train (as in the achievement "Watch your step")

P.S.: The full rule set reads as follows:

Basic Rules:
• The run ends by getting killed from a locomotive.
• Only 1 player is allowed.
• Free choice of map generator settings. Enabling "Peaceful mode" and
 using a set "Map seed" is allowed.
• Importing blueprints is NOT allowed. However, you may use
 blueprints created during the run.
─────────────────────────────────────────────
Detailed Rules:
• The time is taken in realtime, not ingame time.
• The timer starts on the first frame of the map.
• The timer stops on the first frame of the death screen.
• Playing in multiplayer mode is recommended.
• Usage of the debug mode is not allowed except for the options
 "show-fps" and "show-tile-grid".
• The usage of mods and commands is forbidden.
• Submissions require a video.
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Re: Speedrunning category step% now official

Post by Riceisnice » Thu Mar 22, 2018 2:21 pm

Schorty wrote:Hey there,

over on reddit I made some posts about rain9441 and his ambitions to grow the speedrunning community. He stated, that the default options* run and even any%** weren't really accessible for the "average joe",

Don't get me wrong i like the idea, i loves the produced speedruns and such. Still Speedrunning isn't something for the "average joe", it needs dedication, working out a plan.
comparing your plan to other solutions, sharing Loopholes/finding loopholes and such. asfar as i can tell compared to FF 1-99, Dragonquest, Xeno, Chrono, Jamesbondgoldeneye.(which i loves to participate as viewer on twitch. ;) )
The increasement of options to pursuits is COOL and thinking about the new categories i will enjoy the new release tho.
Still Speedrunning is nothing for me to do personally as i'm a slowpoke :lol:

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Re: Speedrunning category step% now official

Post by mrvn » Thu Mar 22, 2018 2:25 pm

And shouldn't this be more generally the achievment% category. The time taken to get a specific achievment.

Other speedruns in this category would be time to make aliens attack you due to pollution. Or time to reach iron throne.

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Re: Speedrunning category step% now official

Post by Schorty » Thu Mar 22, 2018 5:42 pm

Riceisnice wrote:
Schorty wrote:Hey there,

over on reddit I made some posts about rain9441 and his ambitions to grow the speedrunning community. He stated, that the default options* run and even any%** weren't really accessible for the "average joe",

Don't get me wrong i like the idea, i loves the produced speedruns and such. Still Speedrunning isn't something for the "average joe", it needs dedication, working out a plan.
comparing your plan to other solutions, sharing Loopholes/finding loopholes and such. asfar as i can tell compared to FF 1-99, Dragonquest, Xeno, Chrono, Jamesbondgoldeneye.(which i loves to participate as viewer on twitch. ;) )
The increasement of options to pursuits is COOL and thinking about the new categories i will enjoy the new release tho.
Still Speedrunning is nothing for me to do personally as i'm a slowpoke :lol:
Of course, you have to put work into this speedrun aswell, don't get me wrong, but even compared to any%, this run is almost a joke :D
mrvn wrote:And shouldn't this be more generally the achievment% category. The time taken to get a specific achievment.

Other speedruns in this category would be time to make aliens attack you due to pollution. Or time to reach iron throne.
I think the reasoning, why not every achievement is a category of it's own is that this would dilute the already small speedrunning community even more. You can't really compete in more than one category anyways. Unless you have way too much free time on your hands, but that's another topic ;)
I mean, there might be some other achievements, that may be deserving a category of their own. So if you think of a specific one, just start running it, promote it and get people to run it, like I do with this category and some day it will be on the leaderboards :)
It also doesn't have to be achievements. I could imagine a "reactor%" oder "nuke%". All viable categories with their own goals, routes and everything. Just be creative :D
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Re: Speedrunning category step% now official

Post by Gergely » Thu Mar 22, 2018 5:45 pm

Schorty wrote: • Usage of the debug mode is not allowed except for the options
 "show-fps" and "show-tile-grid".
Why is it not allowed?

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Re: Speedrunning category step% now official

Post by Schorty » Thu Mar 22, 2018 9:07 pm

I don't know. Probably because they might get disabled when 1.0 comes out? Maybe there are some options in there, that might give you an advantage that makes it unfun or not entertaining to watch? Someone with more insight might have to answer this.
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Re: Speedrunning category step% now official

Post by Gergely » Fri Mar 23, 2018 4:40 pm

Schorty wrote:I don't know. Probably because they might get disabled when 1.0 comes out? Maybe there are some options in there, that might give you an advantage that makes it unfun or not entertaining to watch? Someone with more insight might have to answer this.
I could argue the same way that speed runs prior to release are also illegal.

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Re: Speedrunning category step% now official

Post by eradicator » Fri Mar 23, 2018 4:53 pm

Schorty wrote: Detailed Rules:
• The time is taken in realtime, not ingame time.
• The timer starts on the first frame of the map.
• The timer stops on the first frame of the death screen.
Having no clue about speedrunnning...why? The ingame timer has perfect precision and can be verified with an uploaded replay (which is also smaller than a video). Videos on the other side are trivial to manipulate and it would be quite easy to shave a few seconds off without anybody noticing.

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Re: Speedrunning category step% now official

Post by Gergely » Fri Mar 23, 2018 8:57 pm

eradicator wrote: Having no clue about speedrunnning...why? The ingame timer has perfect precision and can be verified with an uploaded replay (which is also smaller than a video). Videos on the other side are trivial to manipulate and it would be quite easy to shave a few seconds off without anybody noticing.
Even though they could make the player's live commentary and normal speed mandatory, (which makes cuts easy to notice) I still agree with you. Why do they need videos? Replays are as much reliable.

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Re: Speedrunning category step% now official

Post by eradicator » Fri Mar 23, 2018 11:02 pm

Gergely wrote:
eradicator wrote: Having no clue about speedrunnning...why? The ingame timer has perfect precision and can be verified with an uploaded replay (which is also smaller than a video). Videos on the other side are trivial to manipulate and it would be quite easy to shave a few seconds off without anybody noticing.
Even though they could make the player's live commentary and normal speed mandatory, (which makes cuts easy to notice) I still agree with you. Why do they need videos? Replays are as much reliable.
I'm not too much into speedrunning as i said, but does someone who's fully concentrated on being as fast as possible really do live commentary? All speedruns i've ever seen from other games only had written commentary.

Even if they did, someone wanting to "polish up" his record by another 3 seconds to beat the previous guy whould surely not use such rough methods. Pitch controlled audio speedup is trivial in any modern editor. And nobody's going to notice if there's a few frames missing here and there if the video is already decimated to 25fps. But apart from the whole "cheating on purpose" factor video measurements are also inheritly imprecise. Factorio never runs at exactly 60UPS. It runs at something between 59.8 and 60.2 UPS or similar. And that is not possible to properly record with any video program unless you want to start taking videos at 600 or 6000 frames per second. And then video programs also don't have perfect frame capture if youre CPU is already too busy with running factorio.

Game ticks on the other hand are precise to 1/60th of a second and a custom scenario could quite easily display the exact tick it detects the winning condition.

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Re: Speedrunning category step% now official

Post by Schorty » Sat Mar 24, 2018 9:25 am

eradicator wrote:
Schorty wrote: Detailed Rules:
• The time is taken in realtime, not ingame time.
• The timer starts on the first frame of the map.
• The timer stops on the first frame of the death screen.
Having no clue about speedrunnning...why? The ingame timer has perfect precision and can be verified with an uploaded replay (which is also smaller than a video). Videos on the other side are trivial to manipulate and it would be quite easy to shave a few seconds off without anybody noticing.
rain9441 said, that the ingame timer is of no value, because you can pause the game, open the map seed in another factorio instance, plan the map out in full detail and then just unpause and build what you planned. It takes away the "speed" factor, because you can pause at any time. Thats why the ingame timer isn't used.
Gergely wrote:
Schorty wrote:I don't know. Probably because they might get disabled when 1.0 comes out? Maybe there are some options in there, that might give you an advantage that makes it unfun or not entertaining to watch? Someone with more insight might have to answer this.
I could argue the same way that speed runs prior to release are also illegal.
Then I could argue having fun or just playing the game is illegal ;)
Those rules make the speedruns fun. Either for the runner or for the ones watching the run. If you have valid arguments against the ban on some of those debug options, then go ahead and argue with the people making the rules. I'm totally fine with those rules.
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Re: Speedrunning category step% now official

Post by eradicator » Sat Mar 24, 2018 12:46 pm

Schorty wrote:rain9441 said, that the ingame timer is of no value, because you can pause the game, open the map seed in another factorio instance, plan the map out in full detail and then just unpause and build what you planned. It takes away the "speed" factor, because you can pause at any time. Thats why the ingame timer isn't used.
That's a bit of an odd counter-argument as i wasn't arguing that videos of runs should be abolished, and in a video that type of planning would be blatantly obvious (i guess that means multi-segment runs are not a thing in factorio speedrunning?). Perhaps the most precise solution would be a scenario that shows the current tick (not just a clock) as a timer in the gui, similar to how sometimes on television there's an hourglass in the background to make video manipulation after the recording immediately obvious. If i had more time on hands i'd say "give me a 10 min run and i'll make it 5 seconds shorter" just to demonstrate how video manipulation works :/.

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Re: Speedrunning category step% now official

Post by Jap2.0 » Sat Mar 24, 2018 2:02 pm

Schorty wrote:
eradicator wrote:
Schorty wrote: Detailed Rules:
• The time is taken in realtime, not ingame time.
• The timer starts on the first frame of the map.
• The timer stops on the first frame of the death screen.
Having no clue about speedrunnning...why? The ingame timer has perfect precision and can be verified with an uploaded replay (which is also smaller than a video). Videos on the other side are trivial to manipulate and it would be quite easy to shave a few seconds off without anybody noticing.
rain9441 said, that the ingame timer is of no value, because you can pause the game, open the map seed in another factorio instance, plan the map out in full detail and then just unpause and build what you planned. It takes away the "speed" factor, because you can pause at any time. Thats why the ingame timer isn't used.
Then you should make having multiple instances of Factorio open illegal, and multiple windows, and phones, and multiple devices in general, and anything that can take or view photos, and slow computers, and pausing, and custom seeds, and screenshots and videos of past runs...

For that matter, just having a brain means you can plan out almost exactly what you can do. Should we make that illegal as well?
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Re: Speedrunning category step% now official

Post by PunkSkeleton » Sun Mar 25, 2018 1:39 pm

For me the fun of attempting a speed run would be to coordinate a team of people, solo speed running is not something I would enjoy.

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Re: Speedrunning category step% now official

Post by Gergely » Fri Aug 10, 2018 6:34 pm

Schorty wrote:• Submissions require a video.
Why? Why is an in-game recording not enough? It's the most efficient way to record.

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Re: Speedrunning category step% now official

Post by WeirdConstructor » Fri Aug 10, 2018 7:46 pm

Gergely wrote:
Schorty wrote:• Submissions require a video.
Why? Why is an in-game recording not enough? It's the most efficient way to record.
Maybe because not everyone who wants to see the run has the game to play the record?

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Re: Speedrunning category step% now official

Post by terror_gnom » Sat Aug 11, 2018 12:16 pm

The reason is, the offical time is realtime, not ingame time. You sometimes drop under 60UPS so they dont match exactly.

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Re: Speedrunning category step% now official

Post by adam_bise » Tue Aug 14, 2018 3:02 pm

Schorty wrote:but the run ends by getting run over by a train
Haha! I love it!

I want to try this.

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