[MOD 0.16] Realistic Reactors

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ownlyme
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Re: [MOD 0.16] Realistic Reactors

Post by ownlyme » Sun Aug 19, 2018 9:00 pm

when you focus on the red dots on the top it seems a bit more blurry.
the old one has also more contrast on the shadows and i think the transition to the substructure looks cooler.
but you fixed clipping on the levers so i added that to the old version.
(i also removed the shadows on the entity graphic and put them into a seperate shadow file for compatibility with the pipe shadows) (and some other small tweaks)
thank you very much, this cooling tower really rocks.
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Sigma1
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Re: [MOD 0.16] Realistic Reactors

Post by Sigma1 » Mon Aug 20, 2018 5:00 pm

That one does look a lot better indeed.

I didn't even remember pipe shadows were a thing...
My mods can be found on my homepage: https://sigma-one.gitlab.io/
They include nuclear and military stuff right now.

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ownlyme
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Re: [MOD 0.16] Realistic Reactors

Post by ownlyme » Tue Aug 21, 2018 11:12 am

when shadows are cast by the entity, other shadows darken those shadows additionally.
to fix this, you need to use draw_as_shadow in a seperate layer with the shadow image.. that way shadows won't stack in 99% of the cases.

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Re: [MOD 0.16] Realistic Reactors

Post by ownlyme » Fri Aug 24, 2018 1:25 pm

open alpha
looking for bugs (especially in multiplayer) and feedback (especially to the reactor stats calculation)
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ownlyme
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Re: [MOD 0.16] Realistic Reactors

Post by ownlyme » Fri Aug 24, 2018 1:31 pm

these are my fuel cell curves
breeders have modifiers that reduce efficiency a lot and power a bit.
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RocketManChronicles
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Re: [MOD 0.16] Realistic Reactors

Post by RocketManChronicles » Thu Sep 13, 2018 1:57 pm

I am about to unlock nuclear in my current playthrough. What are the mechanics for the reactors to be considered "neighbors" for the bonus power? How are they considered to be connected? Thanks!

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IngoKnieto
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Re: [MOD 0.16] Realistic Reactors

Post by IngoKnieto » Sun Sep 16, 2018 8:18 pm

RocketManChronicles wrote:
Thu Sep 13, 2018 1:57 pm
I am about to unlock nuclear in my current playthrough. What are the mechanics for the reactors to be considered "neighbors" for the bonus power? How are they considered to be connected? Thanks!
The neighbour bonus is applied, if you have connected them by heat pipes, and they are in the running state.

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Re: [MOD 0.16] Realistic Reactors

Post by RocketManChronicles » Mon Sep 17, 2018 12:44 pm

IngoKnieto wrote:
Sun Sep 16, 2018 8:18 pm
RocketManChronicles wrote:
Thu Sep 13, 2018 1:57 pm
I am about to unlock nuclear in my current playthrough. What are the mechanics for the reactors to be considered "neighbors" for the bonus power? How are they considered to be connected? Thanks!
The neighbour bonus is applied, if you have connected them by heat pipes, and they are in the running state.
Ok, that is easy enough to figure out. My follow-up question is concerning the 'four' states you mention in the mod. I am assuming each 'state' is by how many neighbors each reactor has, similar to the vanilla reactors. State 1 is without any neighbors just a standalone reactor; State 2 is when you have two connected; State 3 is when three are connected (are all three considered to have two neighbors?); and State 4 is when you have four or more reactors connected (again, are all considered to have three neighbors?).

For example, with vanilla reactors, if I have four in a 2x2 configuration, they each have two neighbors. But with your mod's description, if I have four reactors (connected together in any pattern), they will all have three neighbors. Am I understanding that correctly?

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Re: [MOD 0.16] Realistic Reactors

Post by IngoKnieto » Mon Sep 17, 2018 4:40 pm

RocketManChronicles wrote:
Mon Sep 17, 2018 12:44 pm
IngoKnieto wrote:
Sun Sep 16, 2018 8:18 pm
RocketManChronicles wrote:
Thu Sep 13, 2018 1:57 pm
I am about to unlock nuclear in my current playthrough. What are the mechanics for the reactors to be considered "neighbors" for the bonus power? How are they considered to be connected? Thanks!
The neighbour bonus is applied, if you have connected them by heat pipes, and they are in the running state.
Ok, that is easy enough to figure out. My follow-up question is concerning the 'four' states you mention in the mod. I am assuming each 'state' is by how many neighbors each reactor has, similar to the vanilla reactors. State 1 is without any neighbors just a standalone reactor; State 2 is when you have two connected; State 3 is when three are connected (are all three considered to have two neighbors?); and State 4 is when you have four or more reactors connected (again, are all considered to have three neighbors?).

For example, with vanilla reactors, if I have four in a 2x2 configuration, they each have two neighbors. But with your mod's description, if I have four reactors (connected together in any pattern), they will all have three neighbors. Am I understanding that correctly?
Yes, that's correct - although state may be the wrong term, the reactor state is for example "stopped", "running", etc., this is called the bonus level. You can see the current level in the corresponding signal.

Btw. we are planning to publish a complete overhaul of this mod this week, if you can wait a few days you'll have a totally different experience building you nuclear plant...

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Re: [MOD 0.16] Realistic Reactors

Post by RocketManChronicles » Mon Sep 17, 2018 4:50 pm

IngoKnieto wrote:
Mon Sep 17, 2018 4:40 pm
RocketManChronicles wrote:
Mon Sep 17, 2018 12:44 pm
IngoKnieto wrote:
Sun Sep 16, 2018 8:18 pm
RocketManChronicles wrote:
Thu Sep 13, 2018 1:57 pm
I am about to unlock nuclear in my current playthrough. What are the mechanics for the reactors to be considered "neighbors" for the bonus power? How are they considered to be connected? Thanks!
The neighbour bonus is applied, if you have connected them by heat pipes, and they are in the running state.
Ok, that is easy enough to figure out. My follow-up question is concerning the 'four' states you mention in the mod. I am assuming each 'state' is by how many neighbors each reactor has, similar to the vanilla reactors. State 1 is without any neighbors just a standalone reactor; State 2 is when you have two connected; State 3 is when three are connected (are all three considered to have two neighbors?); and State 4 is when you have four or more reactors connected (again, are all considered to have three neighbors?).

For example, with vanilla reactors, if I have four in a 2x2 configuration, they each have two neighbors. But with your mod's description, if I have four reactors (connected together in any pattern), they will all have three neighbors. Am I understanding that correctly?
Yes, that's correct - although state may be the wrong term, the reactor state is for example "stopped", "running", etc., this is called the bonus level. You can see the current level in the corresponding signal.

Btw. we are planning to publish a complete overhaul of this mod this week, if you can wait a few days you'll have a totally different experience building you nuclear plant...
That sounds very exciting! I can wait; I haven't researched Nuclear Power just yet, trying to cover a few others.

BTW, if interested, my current playthrough is Deathworld Marathon with RSO Railworld resources.

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IngoKnieto
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Re: [MOD 0.16] Realistic Reactors

Post by IngoKnieto » Fri Sep 21, 2018 8:17 pm

Hey everybody - we have just posted a major update of this mod in the mod portal:
https://mods.factorio.com/mod/RealisticReactors

Also the the first post for more details on the new functions...

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Re: [MOD 0.16] Realistic Reactors

Post by pnv25 » Mon Sep 24, 2018 6:07 pm

I translated your mod version 2.0.0 into Russian, really like your mod and decided to make a Russifier for us Russians). Can you add it to the mod please?
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1AJYudx ... Edfox/view

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Re: [MOD 0.16] Realistic Reactors

Post by Light » Tue Oct 02, 2018 12:12 am

I've recently updated after a 8 month hiatus. The update to the formulas is intriguing.

After Bob nerfed and rebalanced the turbines, I went to see how my former 64 reactor setup faired. It produces 6.9GW at its maximum limit instead of the previous 7.6GW pre-nerf, but is all around much better balanced in my book. I've then tested both formulas after learning there were two.

Using the Ingo formula, there will be around 10-20 minutes where it's at 6GW until the heat output starts to level out and it's completely stable at precisely 6.9GW where it must be. Fluctuations clearly cause an efficiency drop, which is neat to witness given how fluctuations are often difficult to reduce if defenses are using the nuclear grid.

Using the Ownlys formula, the inverse seemed to occur. The reactors stay hot for a short period and then slowly trickle downward to only 6.1GW. This is obviously by design given that uranium has a lower heat output, but because Clown's Nuclear isn't supported, I couldn't match the results above with the better Thorium/Mox fuel, though I imagine I could otherwise.

It's nice to have the option to choose what fits ones play style the best. Personally, I like how Ownly's formula encourages using other fuels for better results. At the same time, Ingo's formula is more simplistic for those who just want to mix fuel types and not worry about output.

Not sure if I'll use the breeder reactors (are they half the output?), but it's a neat addition just the same.

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Re: [MOD 0.16] Realistic Reactors

Post by Mortico » Sun Oct 07, 2018 5:45 am

I have been using this mod for a while and just got the update. My old reactor design seems to be working badly :(

Namely, I can't get the temp to go over 522. I have 4 reactors and the bonus says it's 4. Less than half of my turbines are running now. What am I doing wrong?

This is my setup:
Screenshot 2018-10-07 01.44.20.png
Screenshot 2018-10-07 01.44.20.png (3.61 MiB) Viewed 196 times

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Re: [MOD 0.16] Realistic Reactors

Post by Light » Sun Oct 07, 2018 5:54 pm

Mortico wrote:
Sun Oct 07, 2018 5:45 am
I have been using this mod for a while and just got the update. My old reactor design seems to be working badly :(

Namely, I can't get the temp to go over 522. I have 4 reactors and the bonus says it's 4. Less than half of my turbines are running now. What am I doing wrong?
Switch the formula to Ingo's and your reactor should work as before.

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Re: [MOD 0.16] Realistic Reactors

Post by Mortico » Sun Oct 07, 2018 8:28 pm

Light wrote:
Sun Oct 07, 2018 5:54 pm
Mortico wrote:
Sun Oct 07, 2018 5:45 am
I have been using this mod for a while and just got the update. My old reactor design seems to be working badly :(

Namely, I can't get the temp to go over 522. I have 4 reactors and the bonus says it's 4. Less than half of my turbines are running now. What am I doing wrong?
Switch the formula to Ingo's and your reactor should work as before.
I did, actually.

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Re: [MOD 0.16] Realistic Reactors

Post by Mortico » Wed Oct 10, 2018 2:22 pm

I've been messing around in a creative mode save with this. Previously, with 1 reactor only, I could run 14 turbines.

Now with just 1 reactor running in a very simple setup, I can run about 4 turbines. My reactor power is showing as "23".

Using Ingo's formulas btw.

Is it safe to say the realistic reactors are now nerfed? I'v never actually used the vanilla reactors, how do they usually perform in comparison?

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Re: [MOD 0.16] Realistic Reactors

Post by IngoKnieto » Wed Oct 10, 2018 9:13 pm

Mortico wrote:
Sun Oct 07, 2018 5:45 am
...

Namely, I can't get the temp to go over 522. I have 4 reactors and the bonus says it's 4. Less than half of my turbines are running now. What am I doing wrong?
I don't see it exactly in your screenshot, but you probably need to stop the water supply to the heat exchangers, until your reactors have reached the temperature you want. The produced heat from the nuclear fission process can either heat up the reactor, or be converted into steam - if you use all heat to produce steam, your reactor won't heat up further...

For each 10 MW output you can operate one heat exchanger (that's a base game value). So in your setup (4 reactors - 64 heat ex.) each reactor needs to output 160 MW. If you use the mode with my formulas that's not possible, the maximum output is about 120 MW close to 1000° reactor temperature.
So remove 16 heat exchangers, build a pump with an appropriate setting in front of your heat exchangers water supply, and you should be fine...

About your test setup with only 23 MW output I can't really say whats wrong. The minimum output is 30 MW, it is reached after the 30 s starting period.

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Re: [MOD 0.16] Realistic Reactors

Post by Mortico » Fri Oct 12, 2018 3:16 am

IngoKnieto wrote:
Wed Oct 10, 2018 9:13 pm
Mortico wrote:
Sun Oct 07, 2018 5:45 am
...

Namely, I can't get the temp to go over 522. I have 4 reactors and the bonus says it's 4. Less than half of my turbines are running now. What am I doing wrong?
I don't see it exactly in your screenshot, but you probably need to stop the water supply to the heat exchangers, until your reactors have reached the temperature you want. The produced heat from the nuclear fission process can either heat up the reactor, or be converted into steam - if you use all heat to produce steam, your reactor won't heat up further...

For each 10 MW output you can operate one heat exchanger (that's a base game value). So in your setup (4 reactors - 64 heat ex.) each reactor needs to output 160 MW. If you use the mode with my formulas that's not possible, the maximum output is about 120 MW close to 1000° reactor temperature.
So remove 16 heat exchangers, build a pump with an appropriate setting in front of your heat exchangers water supply, and you should be fine...

About your test setup with only 23 MW output I can't really say whats wrong. The minimum output is 30 MW, it is reached after the 30 s starting period.
Ok this seems to have done the trick, regulating the water fed to the heat exchangers is allowing me to control the temperature.

I need to redesign my 4 reactor plant now, but oh well.

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Re: [MOD 0.16] Realistic Reactors

Post by Mortico » Sat Oct 13, 2018 1:54 am

Mortico wrote:
Fri Oct 12, 2018 3:16 am
IngoKnieto wrote:
Wed Oct 10, 2018 9:13 pm
Mortico wrote:
Sun Oct 07, 2018 5:45 am
...

Namely, I can't get the temp to go over 522. I have 4 reactors and the bonus says it's 4. Less than half of my turbines are running now. What am I doing wrong?
I don't see it exactly in your screenshot, but you probably need to stop the water supply to the heat exchangers, until your reactors have reached the temperature you want. The produced heat from the nuclear fission process can either heat up the reactor, or be converted into steam - if you use all heat to produce steam, your reactor won't heat up further...

For each 10 MW output you can operate one heat exchanger (that's a base game value). So in your setup (4 reactors - 64 heat ex.) each reactor needs to output 160 MW. If you use the mode with my formulas that's not possible, the maximum output is about 120 MW close to 1000° reactor temperature.
So remove 16 heat exchangers, build a pump with an appropriate setting in front of your heat exchangers water supply, and you should be fine...

About your test setup with only 23 MW output I can't really say whats wrong. The minimum output is 30 MW, it is reached after the 30 s starting period.
Ok this seems to have done the trick, regulating the water fed to the heat exchangers is allowing me to control the temperature.

I need to redesign my 4 reactor plant now, but oh well.
I'm definitely making progress in my redesign, but my numbers always seem to be off. I have my reactor running at around 850 C, producing 100 MW thermal with a 4-reactor bonus. That should be 10 heat exchangers and 17 turbines for one reactor.

But I have actually hooked up 21 exchangers and 30 turbines. I have my pumps set to try and keep the temp at 850, with emergency cooling starting at 864. The emergency cooling keeps kicking on and it bounces back and forth between these two temperatures. It does this no matter how many heat exchangers I hook up. I was trying to find the limit for how many exchangers I can hook up to a 100MW reactor, expecting it to be 10, but I just kept adding more and more until none of the new ones could generate steam, and I got to 21 exchangers. This just doesn't seem right, argh. Thanks for your help so far. I still love this mod :P

EDIT: OK I've been experimenting all day and I changed the pumps feeding water into the exchangers to turn on based on reactor power output, instead of temperature. That seems to have helped dial it into a sweet spot. I did end up with the right number after all, 10/17. My only real issues are now that the reactor doesn't have reliable auxiliary power, need to figure out how many solar panels it needs to be self-sufficient. Also, the power levels tend to dip from time to time as the reactor is cooled below the 100 mark. Trying to find ways to smooth it out, but it's been challenging.

That was a fun puzzle to solve, if just a bit frustrating.

Just a few creative mode things to clean up but my basic design is finished:
Screenshot 2018-10-14 00.09.00.png
Screenshot 2018-10-14 00.09.00.png (1.67 MiB) Viewed 88 times

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