[MOD 0.17.x] KenirasRandomRecipes

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Kenira
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Re: [MOD 0.16.x] KenirasRandomRecipes 1.0.5

Post by Kenira » Fri Jan 18, 2019 3:01 pm

v1.1.1
- fixed changing random seed not working which was broken for a while already (this will change all the numbers so don't update during a game!)
- added option for randomizing stack sizes
- added rounding for crafting times

Kenira
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Re: [MOD 0.16.x] KenirasRandomRecipes 1.0.5

Post by Kenira » Sun Jan 20, 2019 10:44 pm

v1.2
- this patch will rerandomize everything again so don't update during a game, sorry. probably / hopefully for the last time
- finally properly fixed numbers changing when you add or remove mods. numbers should now properly be constant for a given seed, no matter what else you do.
- switched away from lua's integrated random number generator in the process
- added options to randomize roboports, construction and logistics robots
- added belt speed sync support for bob's logistics

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Re: [MOD 0.16.x] KenirasRandomRecipes 1.0.5

Post by vjbone » Mon Feb 04, 2019 12:39 pm

is mod working good with angel resource voiding? i ported last version to 0.14 and must to add void recipes to blacklist as quickfix (cant test it on 016 version right now)

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Re: [MOD 0.16.x] KenirasRandomRecipes 1.0.5

Post by Kenira » Mon Feb 04, 2019 8:07 pm

Can you be a bit more specific about what the problem is? I'm not sure what you mean. I just tried using a flare stack and that works.

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Re: [MOD 0.16.x] KenirasRandomRecipes 1.0.5

Post by vjbone » Tue Feb 05, 2019 12:31 pm

in one flare stuck it gives "void material" in another it didnt work at all
and i added just this to blacklist

Code: Select all

"angels%-chemical%-void-",
"angels%-water%-void-",
maybe this is 14 version problem but i recipes it gives void material with 0% chance and Random mod just chage this %
in first flare stuck >0% in another <0% i think

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Re: [MOD 0.16.x] KenirasRandomRecipes 1.0.5

Post by Kenira » Tue Feb 05, 2019 12:35 pm

Thanks for the report, i'll add them to the blacklist by default for the next version.

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Re: [MOD 0.16.x] KenirasRandomRecipes 1.0.5

Post by vjbone » Sat Feb 09, 2019 12:10 pm

tested on 16 game version and mods - voiding works =)

Kenira
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Re: [MOD 0.17.x] KenirasRandomRecipes 1.3.0

Post by Kenira » Wed Feb 27, 2019 6:13 pm

Added the voids to blacklist anyway since there is no point in randomizing them.

New version with 0.17 support out now.

v1.3.0
- updated for 0.17
- "Randomizing everything" option will now respect the belt sync setting instead of overriding it to false
- added options to randomize iron and copper plates, and kovarex enrichment process in the ingame options (used to all be in the blacklist, now you can toggle them individually)
- fixed issue with angel's mods by adding void recipes to blacklist

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Re: [MOD 0.17.x] KenirasRandomRecipes 1.4.4

Post by Kenira » Fri Mar 15, 2019 8:18 pm

Forgot to post updates here on the forums, whoops. Latest update (1.4.4) is only for v0.17.13, and at the same time fixes an issue that came up with .13 (some items are not meant to be stacked, and it would crash the game pre-.13 and cause an error in .13, so now the mod will not cause product amounts in recipes to go beyond 1 for items that have a stack size of 1).
Also added some rounding for prettier numbers (toggleable), capping armor resistances to 100% also for cosmetic purposes and other small changes / compatibility fixes with other mods.


v1.4.4
- fixed that items could be produced in stacks despite being unstackable
- fixed emissions being called emissions_per_second_per_watt starting in 0.17.13
- added setting for rounding to get prettier numbers (default enabled)
- improved the default rounding of belts (without the rounding setting). now rounds to whole items per second, instead of internal value of speed which is an awkward number.
- cap armor resistances to 100%
- exclude RITEG and air filter recycle recipes from being randomized
- added factorio extended, xander and ultimate belts belt sync support
- added loader sync (supports loaders redux, bob's logistics, miniloaders, deadlock loaders)

v1.4.3
- fix conflict with mod "Closest First"
- added rounding for stack sizes, default enabled

v1.4.2
- limit max possible module slots to 65535 (i can't believe this was necessary)

v1.4.1
- add belt sync support for vacuum belts
- fix deadlock crating and deadlock stacking recipes got randomized

v1.4.0
- CHECK YOUR SETTINGS WHEN UPDATING! Specifically, the "Randomization mode" setting. i overhauled the settings which will make it more clear the "Randomize Everything", "Randomize only recipes" etc settings are incompatible and you need to choose either one or none of them ("Custom" for individually ticking all the boxes)
- mod compatibility with WhistleStop Factories: added option to sync the bulk recipes with the regular recipes
- fixed that some properties got values for easier or harder difficulty than intended (energy consumption for efficiency modules (other modules are fine), roboport energy usage)
- added personal equipment randomization option
- added module slot randomization option
- added option to randomize rocket parts needed for a rocket

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Re: [MOD 0.17.x] KenirasRandomRecipes 1.4.4

Post by qwesz9090 » Sat Apr 13, 2019 2:11 pm

I've been absolutely fascinated with this mod since I found it. Seriously, this has potential. Great job.
I just wanted to give some player input back of what I thought.

Randomizing the recipe crafting speed is my favorite part of this mod, since bad rng can be counteracted by more machines. It makes you have to adapt in how you allocate your space each play-through. Is it possible to add a setting to randomize recipe crafting speed more/less than the chosen variance?

Randomizing the recipes ratios did however not work the way I thought it would. For example, I thought it would be fun if the basic copper/iron plate recipe was changed. But if you have a high variance, there is a chance to get 5 iron ore = iron plate, which isn't fun. And if you have a low variance, it will simply round down to a 1:1 ratio. I want variance high to increase the odds of interesting ratios, but a high variance increases the risk of a tedious map. There is currently no way to consistently get interesting ratios without screwing yourself over, especially for the recipes with low numbers.
Sure, you could reload maps until you get interesting recipes, but it's more fun going into it blind (though preferably without the fear of x6 expensiver high-tech science after sinking 15 hours into a save.)
Maybe a complexity setting parallel to the variance setting? A higher complexity rounds less but gives larger and more complex ratios and a lower complexity rounds more but has easier and less numerous ratios.

The idea of randomizing recipe ingredients seems to entice you as much as it does me. But I support your decision to not make any changes that won't work for all recipes from other mods. One day you might figure out a way that works with other mods and that day shall be glorious.

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Re: [MOD 0.17.x] KenirasRandomRecipes 1.4.4

Post by Kenira » Sat Apr 13, 2019 2:29 pm

Hey, thanks for the feedback!

I'm not 100% sure i know exactly what you mean when you say higher complexity with less rounding. Could you give a more specific example?
How i understand it now is that it's a problem especially with recipes like iron plate smelting where you have 1 ingredient and 1 result, that to have any difference you need to get above the rounding threshold to get to 2. And it sounds a bit like what you'd like is then allow for example 4 ore into 3 plates while adjusting the energy, so you have a more fine grained difference instead of rounding away the variation from the randomization that may only be 1.3 or something. Is that correct?

I have also been thinking for a bit about adding weights for how much each property should be randomized - it would complicate the settings a lot though. Basically, that you could adjust the randomization range for everything individually. I guess for anyone hardcore enough to want to tweak things in detail like that, it would be fine in the config file though, so i wouldn't need to clutter the ingame mod settings with that. But in general i also think variations in ingredient amounts should be less than the variation in belt speeds for examples, or the energy a recipe requires.

Also, speak for yourself about 5 ore into 1 plate not being fun: I'm in a game where i ended up with that and other horrible luck that makes green chips massively more expensive, and i'm in the endgame working on SpaceX :P That you can get high variation like that in general is a feature, i do however agree that some more fine tuning would certainly help tailoring the game experience more towards what every individual player wants. I do want to make it as configurable as possible, to allow people to randomize things in ways that they enjoy the most. So i am always interested in feedback like the one you provided.

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Re: [MOD 0.17.x] KenirasRandomRecipes 1.4.4

Post by qwesz9090 » Sun Apr 14, 2019 12:39 pm

Well yes, your ingame settings are already cluttered enough (but it was fun playing around with them). A config file option should do fine.

For the "complexity thing" I can explain an example for a recipe with only one ingredient and your guess to what I meant last post seemed on point. Though I am not sure how (if) this idea could be translated into recipes with several ingredients, and the most difficult, several results.
If X things becomes Y stuff. The ratio starts off being X to Y. You then need an algorithm that finds a new ratio A to B, depending on the complexity, C and the variance V. V would indicate how much the ratio is allowed to change. So
(X/Y) / V < A/B < (X/Y) * V The new ratio is somewhere between the old ratio and the factor V. I think your current method gives this result as well?
C indicates how large numbers A and B are allowed to be. I think (not sure tho, it's just something I thought up.) the complexity of a recipe can be measured by the smallest number of A or B. For example, if two recipes has the same ratio, 10 to 30 and 2 to 6. The least "complex" is the one with the smallest number. So if we define the "complexity" of a recipe X to Y as min(X,Y). I want
min(X,Y) / C < min(A,B) < min(X,Y) * C The new ratio should have an "complexity" between the old ratio complexity and a factor of C.
I'm not sure if this would work, especially with more ingredients. But I think it would work to first randomize a ratio with V, and then round it to the closest ratio allowed by C. A higher C allows for more ratios, so it would not have to round as much.
And of course the energy for recipes would have to be changed accordingly, but that should be easy to calculate. You could set the energy required to be proportional to the ingredients handled by the recipe. So in my previous example you would multiply the initially randomized energy by (A+B)/(X+Y) .
This is just an idea I had and doing something like this would be quite an extensive overhaul to the randomizing algorithm (basically the whole mod) which is asking for a lot, but I would love to see you try.

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Re: [MOD 0.17.x] KenirasRandomRecipes 1.4.4

Post by Kenira » Mon Apr 15, 2019 10:07 pm

Yeah that would be quite a significant overhaul to how recipes get randomized. I'll need to think about if / how exactly to do it.

What would be much easier to solve the issue of wanting for recipes to be different more often while not increasing the range as much: It would be possible to relatively easily simply increase the chance values will be further off from the base value, or basically just increasing the variance without making the interval larger. It would still be as coarse grained as it is now however, so it would just be a quick and dirty fix basically.

I do agree this could improve how the mod feels though - i can also always make this new, more fine grained mode (whatever i end up doing) a toggleable setting. Gotta have all the options lol.

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Re: [MOD 0.17.x] KenirasRandomRecipes 1.4.4

Post by qwesz9090 » Wed Apr 17, 2019 4:46 pm

Yeah, I probably got carried away there. Upping the complexity for complexities sakes is pretty boring. A 4 to 5 ratio for iron plates seems better than a 1 to 5 at first glance. But I know that I wouldn't change how I play if I got a 4 to 5 ratio, 1 to 5 however, would change how I play so it's definitely more interesting in the long run.
Realizing that kinda shattered my idea of what I wanted this mod to do, I'm not so sure anymore.
But having a non-uniform randomness at low variance sounds like a great way to encourage change at low variance. Either that or some sort of balance or reset that makes variance 20 sound a bit less scary... (making higher variance more accessive.) Or maybe a easy way to check if a seed is suitable to your preferences! You could have an option that if turned on, at the beginning of every game, tells you how much time and raw materials each of some staple end-products like the rocket and science packs requires compared to before recipes were randomized. (maybe these items can be chosen by the user?) That would make randomizing until getting a good seed a viable option, even with ridiculously high variance.
If making the randomizing balanced and weigh-able is nigh impossible, this might be a good alternative. And I think algorithms that figures out the raw materials and time required for products in Factorio are pretty easy to find and copy these days?

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Re: [MOD 0.17.x] KenirasRandomRecipes 1.4.4

Post by Kenira » Wed Apr 17, 2019 5:08 pm

It's funny you mention that, because i am currently working on that. Albeit not directly integrated into the mod, i'm working in Python right now and working with data dumps from some other mod. But when / if i get it working i could possibly integrate it into the mod to display if some things got super expensive. I was also thinking about writing a script that you can tell certain boundaries, like "at least X module slots for beacons, at least 20% productivity for a productivity module" and it will then look for seeds that fit the bill. But both of those things are still very much up in the air and i'm not making any promises in that direction, i'm just playing with it now but the motivation may go away again.

Playing with variance of 20 will always be a huge risk though, that's just in the nature of using such a large variance. If you don't want to risk certain things getting vastly more expensive then....you shouldn't be playing with a variance that high.

Another idea i just got is that i could allow setting different variance for how much cheaper vs. how much more expensive things can get.

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