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How to calculate assembler 2 needs?
Posted: Sat May 06, 2017 1:27 pm
by brunzenstein
Given the recent update to 0.15.9 how do I myself calculate the optimal assembler 2 needs for example for a green circuit setup?
How many iron and copper cable are needed and what means of loading?
How many fast inserter?
What setup is most efficient and stackable?
Re: How to calculate assembler 2 needs?
Posted: Sat May 06, 2017 2:25 pm
by Koub
3 assembling machines 2 produce 6 copper cables from 3 copper plates in 0.5/0.75 s
2 assembling machines 2 produce 2 green circuits from 6 copper cables and 2 iron plates in 0.5/0.75 s
Basically, nothing has changed : 3 copper cables AM2, 2 green circuit AM2.
Re: How to calculate assembler 2 needs?
Posted: Sat May 06, 2017 3:15 pm
by brunzenstein
Koub wrote:3 assembling machines 2 produce 6 copper cables from 3 copper plates in 0.5/0.75 s
2 assembling machines 2 produce 2 green circuits from 6 copper cables and 2 iron plates in 0.5/0.75 s
Basically, nothing has changed : 3 copper cables AM2, 2 green circuit AM2.
Fair enough - But I had a hard time getting enough iron plates and green circuits into a assembler for producing electric engines.
Actually an assembler 2 needs 44 iron plates per second to produce assembler 1, more then two normal belts could deliver ...
Re: How to calculate assembler 2 needs?
Posted: Sat May 06, 2017 3:27 pm
by Xeorm
Assuming you're not using the expensive option, having a 3-2 option for cable-circuit assembly machines works well. Easiest layout is to have the three cable machines output directly into the two circuit machines, because having a belt inbetween mucks things up. So, one fast inserter for each of the cable machines to pull in copper, 2 each placing the copper cables into the circuit machines, and one to grab iron for the circuit machine, and one more fast inserter to take the finished circuits. Substitute two long inserters for each fast one.
You can do with less inserters with stack inserter research though.
Re: How to calculate assembler 2 needs?
Posted: Sat May 06, 2017 6:03 pm
by brunzenstein
Xeorm wrote:Assuming you're not using the expensive option, having a 3-2 option for cable-circuit assembly machines works well. Easiest layout is to have the three cable machines output directly into the two circuit machines, because having a belt inbetween mucks things up. So, one fast inserter for each of the cable machines to pull in copper, 2 each placing the copper cables into the circuit machines, and one to grab iron for the circuit machine, and one more fast inserter to take the finished circuits. Substitute two long inserters for each fast one.
You can do with less inserters with stack inserter research though.
But I had a hard time getting enough iron plate, iron gearwheels and green circuits into a assembler 2 for producing assembler 1.
Actually an assembler 2 needs 44 iron plates per second (!) to produce assembler 1, far more that even two normal full compressed belts could ever deliver ...
Re: How to calculate assembler 2 needs?
Posted: Sat May 06, 2017 7:31 pm
by Aeternus
Then don't use normal belts - use the red ones. At that kind of throughput you're not using normal inserters so there's no reason not to use a faster belt
Re: How to calculate assembler 2 needs?
Posted: Sat May 06, 2017 7:37 pm
by brunzenstein
Aeternus wrote:Then don't use normal belts - use the red ones. At that kind of throughput you're not using normal inserters so there's no reason not to use a faster belt
Not so. You need 11 inserter to satisfy the need of a single assembler.
So I want to know how to calculate the whole setup. See the problem here:
https://youtu.be/DSm8hqN-NDc
Re: How to calculate assembler 2 needs?
Posted: Sat May 06, 2017 9:06 pm
by Xeorm
brunzenstein wrote:But I had a hard time getting enough iron plate, iron gearwheels and green circuits into a assembler 2 for producing assembler 1.
Actually an assembler 2 needs 44 iron plates per second (!) to produce assembler 1, far more that even two normal full compressed belts could ever deliver ...
Break it up into parts. The AM 1 recipe takes 3x circuit, 5xgear wheel, and 9x iron every .5 seconds. Don't forget that AM 2's only have a .75 crafting speed if you're looking for absolute values, so an AM 2 will produce AM 1's at .5 * 1/.75 (.67s). Ratios work well though. Circuits and gears both craft in the same .5s, so you need 3 AM 2's for the circuits and 5 AM 2's for the gear wheels. Assuming you put the items on separate belts then you should be fine. I'd check the wiki if you're worried about inserter or belt rates.
And of course, you don't need to produce something at the max rate the machine can handle. As long as you're producing enough for other needs you should be fine.
Re: How to calculate assembler 2 needs?
Posted: Sat May 06, 2017 9:55 pm
by Serenity
This has been updated for 15.9:
https://dwahler.github.io/factorio/index.html
For example if you type in "B7" at purple science it will tell you that you what you need to feed 7 Assembler 2 producing purple science. Or you type in "1" to learn what you need to make 1 purple science per second
Inserter needs can be figured out empirically by watching the production speed and seeing how well the material intake copes
Re: How to calculate assembler 2 needs?
Posted: Sat May 06, 2017 10:37 pm
by brunzenstein
Serenity wrote:This has been updated for 15.9:
https://dwahler.github.io/factorio/index.html
For example if you type in "B7" at purple science it will tell you that you what you need to feed 7 Assembler 2 producing purple science. Or you type in "1" to learn what you need to make 1 purple science per second
Inserter needs can be figured out empirically by watching the production speed and seeing how well the material intake copes
Thank you - that helps
Re: How to calculate assembler 2 needs?
Posted: Sun May 07, 2017 4:02 am
by iceman_1212
A blue assembler (i.e., an assembler 2) that's constantly producing assembler 1s has a theoretical output of 90 assembler 1s per minute. Here is a build that I used in early game for blue science prior to the rebalancing of recipes - it uses only yellow belts and fast inserters. WIth no inserter stack size upgrades, it is able to produce 80 assembler 1s per minute. WIth one inserter stack size upgrade, it achieves constant production of 90 per minute.
It's quite resource hungry as you can see in the calculator linked above.
Re: How to calculate assembler 2 needs?
Posted: Sun May 07, 2017 6:42 am
by brunzenstein
iceman_1212 wrote:A blue assembler (i.e., an assembler 2) that's constantly producing assembler 1s has a theoretical output of 90 assembler 1s per minute.
Thank you for the build - where do I find exactly that info?
And how much a blue inserter and a belt can provide per second?
Re: How to calculate assembler 2 needs?
Posted: Sun May 07, 2017 7:28 am
by iceman_1212
There are calculators and tools available but I find it faster to keep a physical calculator handy when I play. Based on info in game: assembler 1 recipe has a crafting time of 0.5 seconds for one assembler 1, therefore, recipe crafting speed (i.e., not actual crafting speed) of 1 unit / 0.5 sec = 2 units per second. Assembler 2 has a crafting speed of 0.75, so actual crafting speed = 2 units per second x 0.75 = 1.5 units per second x 60 = 90 units per minute
Re: How to calculate assembler 2 needs?
Posted: Sun May 07, 2017 7:43 am
by Lav
brunzenstein wrote:Thank you for the build - where do I find exactly that info?
And how much a blue inserter and a belt can provide per second?
All information is available in the Factorio Wiki, either directly or via the links to forum threads.
Belts supply 800, 1600 and 2400 items per minute. Unenhanced fast inserter is ~138 items per minute.
Re: How to calculate assembler 2 needs?
Posted: Sun May 07, 2017 9:48 am
by brunzenstein
Lav wrote:brunzenstein wrote:Thank you for the build - where do I find exactly that info?
And how much a blue inserter and a belt can provide per second?
All information is available in the Factorio Wiki, either directly or via the links to forum threads.
Belts supply 800, 1600 and 2400 items per minute. Unenhanced fast inserter is ~138 items per minute.
True enough - but how to get e.g. 44 steel plates per second and two other items (green circuits & iron gear wheels) into an assembler (to produce assembler 1) to let him run optimal is not so easy...
And thats only one of many examples.