Page 1 of 1
Adv. circuit "sphere"
Posted: Thu Jan 26, 2017 11:03 am
by MBas
STATS:
Production = 5.88 advanced circuits / sec
Energy consumption = 26.254 MW
Fully supported with Productivity module 3
Note: Copper cable assembly produces 98.82 % of advanced circuits assembly requirements, hence final production is calculated in order to copper cable assembly speed.
Re: Adv. circuit "sphere"
Posted: Thu Jan 26, 2017 12:51 pm
by mrvn
What is the point of looping the advanced circuits?
Re: Adv. circuit "sphere"
Posted: Thu Jan 26, 2017 3:13 pm
by MBas
mrvn wrote:What is the point of looping the advanced circuits?
I use this kind of output quite plenty. There is no harm on funcionality and it works as illustrative indicator of processing. The measure of "red" on the belt indicates how much is it going. There are dozens of better checks, however this one is just comfortable for me.
Re: Adv. circuit "sphere"
Posted: Thu Jan 26, 2017 3:47 pm
by huliosh
how copper cable production can keep up with so many boosted advanced circuits? Copper cable assembler has 4 affected beacons, but advanced circuits has dozens. 4 vs 5-6? Also It looks nice, but I think that 1 express belt input for 1 copper cable with 200% is more than enough.
Re: Adv. circuit "sphere"
Posted: Thu Jan 26, 2017 3:58 pm
by Xeanoa
huliosh wrote:how copper cable production can keep up with so many boosted advanced circuits? Copper cable assembler has 4 affected beacons, but advanced circuits has dozens. 4 vs 5-6? Also It looks nice, but I think that 1 express belt input for 1 copper cable with 400% is more than enough.
If you look at the bottom, you see there is only one belt of copper coming in. The splitting is just to load more efficiently.
Re: Adv. circuit "sphere"
Posted: Thu Jan 26, 2017 3:59 pm
by huliosh
Xeanoa wrote:huliosh wrote:how copper cable production can keep up with so many boosted advanced circuits? Copper cable assembler has 4 affected beacons, but advanced circuits has dozens. 4 vs 5-6? Also It looks nice, but I think that 1 express belt input for 1 copper cable with 400% is more than enough.
If you look at the bottom, you see there is only one belt of copper coming in. The splitting is just to load more efficiently.
I see, thanks for feedback.
It gives an advantage, but only 2 belts vs 1 belt. More than 2 is an overkill. 317 per min vs 360 per min. But if you change to stack inserter instead of fast inserter for 1 belt, than you gonna get 360.0 vs 360.8 with 2 fast inserters and 2 belts. 2 fast inserters from the same belt has no difference as well.
Re: Adv. circuit "sphere"
Posted: Thu Jan 26, 2017 8:16 pm
by MBas
I must say that only one reason for 4 inserters is just becouse it looks nice
(well, maybe not so becouse its not fully symetric). However i dont like using stack inserters for fast operations between machines and belts (i use it for machine-machine tranports only). Stack inserters remains freezed on waiting for fully grabed on belts which may cause some delay...
BTW, in question of the optimalization... Cable assembly machine is boosted by 4 beacons and has 4 productivity modules so we have
speed = 100% + 4×50% - 4×15% = 240%
productivity = 140 %
cables per sec = 4 × 1.4 × 2.4 × 1.25 =
16.8
and we have 8 advanced circuit assembly machines supported by 6 beacons
speed = 100% + 6×50% - 4×15% = 340%
cables consumption per sec = 4/8 × 3.4 × 1.25 × 8 =
17.0
So we have almost the same numbers. As i mentioned, cables assembly produces 16.8/17 = 98.8% of requested amount.
Re: Adv. circuit "sphere"
Posted: Fri Jan 27, 2017 2:30 pm
by huliosh
MBas wrote:I must say that only one reason for 4 inserters is just becouse it looks nice
(well, maybe not so becouse its not fully symetric). However i dont like using stack inserters for fast operations between machines and belts (i use it for machine-machine tranports only). Stack inserters remains freezed on waiting for fully grabed on belts which may cause some delay...
BTW, in question of the optimalization... Cable assembly machine is boosted by 4 beacons and has 4 productivity modules so we have
speed = 100% + 4×50% - 4×15% = 240%
productivity = 140 %
cables per sec = 4 × 1.4 × 2.4 × 1.25 =
16.8
and we have 8 advanced circuit assembly machines supported by 6 beacons
speed = 100% + 6×50% - 4×15% = 340%
cables consumption per sec = 4/8 × 3.4 × 1.25 × 8 =
17.0
So we have almost the same numbers. As i mentioned, cables assembly produces 16.8/17 = 98.8% of requested amount.
Got it, thank you!
Here is the optimized version of it:
- 8gon_adv_circ2.gif (4.36 MiB) Viewed 18198 times
Same production output.
Yellow belt can deliver 800 items per min, copper consumption is less than 400. So you can deliver 1 side of the belt.
Re: Adv. circuit "sphere"
Posted: Fri Jan 27, 2017 8:36 pm
by MBas
huliosh wrote:[Got it, thank you!...
Wow, thank you for your update. This is probably better. It even looks better.
BTW, i also have a ...
Mid-game version
of the advanced circuit generator without modules. Its very fit for green research when you need one red circuit and no extra green for one
science pack 2.
STATS:
production = 1
advanced circuit per second × speed of assembly machine
which is exactly the amount needed for 12 assambly machines for
science packs 2.
Re: Adv. circuit "sphere"
Posted: Fri Jan 27, 2017 9:15 pm
by huliosh
It looks very attractive.
I was trying to get rid from sub-ingredients as well. At the end I've managed to place on the belt only iron, copper and plastic. Here:
- 8gon_loop.gif (3.8 MiB) Viewed 18122 times
I like how synchronized those builds work. Your build inspired me to make looped version.
Re: Adv. circuit "sphere"
Posted: Sat Jan 28, 2017 2:44 pm
by Jackalope_Gaming
You can get more out of the circuit and cable assemblers while using productivity modules.
Assuming productivity 3 modules, that means you produce 40% more copper cable and green circuits, which means you can feed 40% more red circuit assemblers. 1.4 * 8 = 11.2, so you can feed 11 red circuit assemblers with 1 copper cable assembler and 1 green circuit assembler. And since 1 copper cable assembler with full productivity 3 can almost perfectly produce for 1 green circuit assembler with full productivity 3, you end up with 14 total assemblers: 2 copper cable assemblers, 1 green circuit assembler, and 11 red circuit assemblers.
A bot-based version of that would look something like this:
I haven't worked on a belt version yet. Perhaps the sphere design would work?
Re: Adv. circuit "sphere"
Posted: Mon Jan 30, 2017 10:55 am
by mrvn
In the sphere version the adv. circuit loop is nearly full. At first glance I wouldn't be able to tell if the belt is blocking the last assembler or not.
But if you add one extra transport belt after the splitter to make a T-junction so that the adv. circuits are placed on the other side of the belt that would be avoided. Plus you get two sided output.
Re: Adv. circuit "sphere"
Posted: Mon Jan 30, 2017 10:55 am
by mrvn
Jackielope wrote:You can get more out of the circuit and cable assemblers while using productivity modules.
Assuming productivity 3 modules, that means you produce 40% more copper cable and green circuits, which means you can feed 40% more red circuit assemblers. 1.4 * 8 = 11.2, so you can feed 11 red circuit assemblers with 1 copper cable assembler and 1 green circuit assembler. And since 1 copper cable assembler with full productivity 3 can almost perfectly produce for 1 green circuit assembler with full productivity 3, you end up with 14 total assemblers: 2 copper cable assemblers, 1 green circuit assembler, and 11 red circuit assemblers.
A bot-based version of that would look something like this:
I haven't worked on a belt version yet. Perhaps the sphere design would work?
If you use bots can't you surround each assembler with beacons even more?
Re: Adv. circuit "sphere"
Posted: Fri Feb 17, 2017 5:51 am
by Blurb
MBas wrote:mrvn wrote:What is the point of looping the advanced circuits?
I use this kind of output quite plenty. There is no harm on funcionality and it works as illustrative indicator of processing. The measure of "red" on the belt indicates how much is it going. There are dozens of better checks, however this one is just comfortable for me.
It's not entirely correct that functionality is unharmed, as an internal loop effectively cuts belt throughput in half.
Closely examine this previously posted build:
- 8gon_adv_circ2.gif (4.36 MiB) Viewed 17495 times
Note that the output of Adv. circuits is travelling on a looped red belt, which is divided in two by a red splitter.
Considering that a single yellow belt lane can transport 400 items/min (compared to the setup's output of 352 items/min), downgrading to a yellow belt would make the setup marginally cheaper.
However, if you were to actually try it out, you'd see that the actual production would drop to 200 items/min, as the splitter bottlenecks the output.
One lane is split into two, of which only one leads "out" of the production area. What it means is that the actual output is capped at a maximum of half a lane's throughput.
Arguably, the price difference is not particularly relevant in this case, given that level three modules are used liberally - in this specific case, the problem can be fixed entirely by the addition of one belt piece!
In other cases, the lower build cost might be more attractive, and if you truly want to minmax, then said internal loops are indeed harmful.