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[0.14.18] Latency hiding performing much worse than in 0.13

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[0.14.18] Latency hiding performing much worse than in 0.13

Posted: Fri Nov 04, 2016 2:46 am
by floraline
I typically play Factorio with one friend who hosts a listen server. We are in the same geographic region and our ping is extremely low.

I understand that latency is a fact of life, but 0.13 did a fantastic job at hiding it. I never noticed any latency unless I was firing my weapon, or I approached a gate that did not open in time. Now, Steam automatically updated the game, and after starting a new map on 0.14 with no mods, the visible latency is unbearable. Every single action is delayed: crafting an item in my pockets, canceling a pocket craft, picking up an item from an inventory, placing down an item into an inventory, splitting a stack, mining ore, etc. Maybe 100-200ms delay on all of these things. It is almost as if latency hiding has been turned off completely, and I can't find a way to turn it back on.

I don't mean to disparage the awesome amount of work put into 0.14, but it feels like so much effort was put into optimizing the game for hundreds of players that the developers might have overlooked small-scale games that already had low latency. Has anyone else noticed this problem?

I'm on Windows 10 64-bit. Thanks for reading :D

Re: [0.14.18] Latency hiding performing much worse than in 0.13

Posted: Fri Nov 04, 2016 3:05 am
by Loewchen
Please post your log-file after playing for some time, if possible post the log of the host as well. See my signature on how to find it.

Re: [0.14.18] Latency hiding performing much worse than in 0.13

Posted: Fri Nov 04, 2016 3:31 am
by DuckGoose
I think this is what I'm experiencing too...

I've been playing on the 0.13 multiplayer for a while and it's been fine. It's been running on a headless linux server and I've used both the linux and windows clients. After updating to 0.14.18 yesterday, my multiplayer has been unusable.

I have a "re-winding" effect where I'll be walking in a direction and suddenly I'll be sent back a few seconds ago to the same spot. This will happen repeatedly. PIcking up items takes a good second or more to reflect on my screen and this is combined with the re-winding, yet objects disappear where I thought I had been walking. Sound has a stutter. Especially when picking up items or chests. It's almost as if there's a pickup sound for every single item in the chest. Putting items into chests seems almost impossible. I can pick them up from my inventory, put them in the chest and nothing happens. The inventory window will disappear and then re-appear a second or two later. Nothing changes.

Re: [0.14.18] Latency hiding performing much worse than in 0.13

Posted: Fri Nov 04, 2016 3:36 am
by floraline
I'm sorry, I don't seem to have the log file from the play session that prompted this. I don't know when my friend and I will be able to play again.

I do have a log file from after the described play session, when I connected to the 'Factorio Official PvP Test' server. I wanted to see if I still had latency problems, and as far as I could tell, all of the same problems were still present there. This session was at least a few minutes long as I set up some drills and steam engines. There were no other players on the server.

edit: The host may still have the log file .. I will investigate

Re: [0.14.18] Latency hiding performing much worse than in 0.13

Posted: Fri Nov 04, 2016 3:39 am
by floraline
DuckGoose wrote:Sound has a stutter. Especially when picking up items or chests. It's almost as if there's a pickup sound for every single item in the chest.
I don't know about the other things you describe, but I have encountered some issues with sound when attempting to place buildings in a grid, for example. It's almost as if my client continues trying to place a building down on top of another building, constantly making the 'placing a building' noise, until it receives word from the server that a building was already placed there.

Re: [0.14.18] Latency hiding performing much worse than in 0.13

Posted: Fri Nov 04, 2016 3:40 am
by DuckGoose
log file

Re: [0.14.18] Latency hiding performing much worse than in 0.13

Posted: Fri Nov 04, 2016 3:42 am
by DuckGoose
floraline wrote:I don't know about the other things you describe, but I have encountered some issues with sound when attempting to place buildings in a grid, for example. It's almost as if my client continues trying to place a building down on top of another building, constantly making the 'placing a building' noise, until it receives word from the server that a building was already placed there.
Yes, that's a better description. Same thing.

Re: [0.14.18] Latency hiding performing much worse than in 0.13

Posted: Fri Nov 04, 2016 8:34 am
by DuckGoose
Good news. My friend saved the game to his local computer, sent it to me and I put it on the server. I then connected using the Windows client and it works well. The lag is way better than in 0.13. I still have occasional "re-winding". I still get lag on the Linux client though.

Re: [0.14.18] Latency hiding performing much worse than in 0.13

Posted: Fri Nov 04, 2016 9:25 am
by kovarex
Things like crafting/cancel crafting were never part of latency hiding, so you are probably imagining that.
I suspect, that your internet connection with some specific server just got worse so you noticed these.
What is your latency in game?

Re: [0.14.18] Latency hiding performing much worse than in 0.13

Posted: Fri Nov 04, 2016 9:28 am
by kovarex
DuckGoose wrote:I think this is what I'm experiencing too...

I've been playing on the 0.13 multiplayer for a while and it's been fine. It's been running on a headless linux server and I've used both the linux and windows clients. After updating to 0.14.18 yesterday, my multiplayer has been unusable.

I have a "re-winding" effect where I'll be walking in a direction and suddenly I'll be sent back a few seconds ago to the same spot. This will happen repeatedly. PIcking up items takes a good second or more to reflect on my screen and this is combined with the re-winding, yet objects disappear where I thought I had been walking. Sound has a stutter. Especially when picking up items or chests. It's almost as if there's a pickup sound for every single item in the chest. Putting items into chests seems almost impossible. I can pick them up from my inventory, put them in the chest and nothing happens. The inventory window will disappear and then re-appear a second or two later. Nothing changes.
Isn't there a big factory built already? One of the changes in 0.14 is, that server doesn't wait for slow computers to catch up. If your computer happens to be slower than the server and the map is too big for smooth 60 UPS, your computer is falling behind and strange things might start to happen.
In this case, the solutions are:
  • Limit the processing speed of the server somehow (which will limit the game speed for everyone)
  • Play maps that are not so huge
  • Get a faster computer
  • Wait for 0.15 optimisations

Re: [0.14.18] Latency hiding performing much worse than in 0.13

Posted: Fri Nov 04, 2016 9:55 am
by DaveMcW
kovarex wrote:Limit the processing speed of the server somehow (which will limit the game speed for everyone)
The simplest way to limit it is:

Code: Select all

/c game.speed = 0.8
It would be very useful if the server could do this automatically...

Re: [0.14.18] Latency hiding performing much worse than in 0.13

Posted: Fri Nov 04, 2016 9:57 am
by kovarex
DaveMcW wrote:
kovarex wrote:[*] Limit the processing speed of the server somehow (which will limit the game speed for everyone)
The simplest way to limit it is:

Code: Select all

/c game.speed = 0.8
This is just a temporary solution that works as long as you can handle the 80% of the game speed. At 60 UPS. Once the factory gets bigger again, the server will still outperform the clients.

Re: [0.14.18] Latency hiding performing much worse than in 0.13

Posted: Sat Nov 05, 2016 10:06 am
by DuckGoose
kovarex wrote:Isn't there a big factory built already? One of the changes in 0.14 is, that server doesn't wait for slow computers to catch up. If your computer happens to be slower than the server and the map is too big for smooth 60 UPS, your computer is falling behind and strange things might start to happen.
In this case, the solutions are:
  • Limit the processing speed of the server somehow (which will limit the game speed for everyone)
  • Play maps that are not so huge
  • Get a faster computer
  • Wait for 0.15 optimisations

Nah, it was almost a fresh map and my computer, the server and my buddy's computer are pretty good. I7's and loads of RAM and stuff. Doesn't matter. Today we can't log in. Factorio (Linux and Windows) goes into some weird loop: saving the map, saving a local variant of the map, downloading map (way too big) creating desync report, saving map, saving local variant of the map, ..... and you have to kill the game.

We're just going to start totally fresh and if nothing works then we'll drop back down to 0.13 and wait for 0.15 as suggested.

Re: [0.14.18] Latency hiding performing much worse than in 0.13

Posted: Sat Nov 05, 2016 10:27 am
by Klonan
DuckGoose wrote:
kovarex wrote:Isn't there a big factory built already? One of the changes in 0.14 is, that server doesn't wait for slow computers to catch up. If your computer happens to be slower than the server and the map is too big for smooth 60 UPS, your computer is falling behind and strange things might start to happen.
In this case, the solutions are:
  • Limit the processing speed of the server somehow (which will limit the game speed for everyone)
  • Play maps that are not so huge
  • Get a faster computer
  • Wait for 0.15 optimisations

Nah, it was almost a fresh map and my computer, the server and my buddy's computer are pretty good. I7's and loads of RAM and stuff. Doesn't matter. Today we can't log in. Factorio (Linux and Windows) goes into some weird loop: saving the map, saving a local variant of the map, downloading map (way too big) creating desync report, saving map, saving local variant of the map, ..... and you have to kill the game.

We're just going to start totally fresh and if nothing works then we'll drop back down to 0.13 and wait for 0.15 as suggested.
If you are getting into a desync loop, you should check which mods you are using, and try disabling them until the desync stops,

If you aren't using any mods, and you are desyncing, please make a new bug report with the attached desync report from your %appdata%/roaming/factorio/archive folder
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