Vote to Kick/Ban

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henke37
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Vote ban

Post by henke37 » Wed Jan 16, 2019 5:19 pm

Let players vote out people they don't like. Such as griefers. Let the server owner disable it if they don't like it.

Koub
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Re: Vote to Kick/Ban

Post by Koub » Wed Jan 16, 2019 8:19 pm

[Koub] Merged several topics with suggestion to implement vote-ban mechanism as anti-griefing system.
Koub - Please consider English is not my native language.

mrvn
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Re: How to deal with griefers

Post by mrvn » Thu Jan 17, 2019 12:58 pm

vtx wrote:
Thu Mar 16, 2017 4:04 am
Change key by itself will be more easily for griefer to use because instead of removing / destroying entity they can now just place entity all over the map. Change key prevent other player to remove your entity.

For grenade a simple friendly fire OFF can do the trick.

Any system that rely on global information hold on master server (factorio server ) can be "hack" directly without playing. How can you place a secure system while you can alter some data on master server from many server not owned by factorio ( game server ) ?
Hacking the master server isn't the problem. Way to complicated (comparatively). As griever simply start 100 servers and pad yourself on the back so you get a billion reputation. Then normal players will have no chance. Or as you said join a game as new user, wait the hour and report everyone else. Now their reputation is ruined. No hacking required.

CJ5Boss
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Re: Vote to Kick/Ban

Post by CJ5Boss » Thu Jan 17, 2019 3:17 pm

The owner of the server should be required to appoint an admin with these capabilities so that they both have the ability to kick if one is away, to fix the loopholes. The owner can also appoint anyone else they wish but if there are at least 3-4 people, the owner must appoint one online, or, if they all are griefers (which is not likely) then they could bypass this once.
"Artillery laser cannon shotgun uranium explosive turret tanks" would be the greatest thing ever.
You might try checking out my mod: https://mods.factorio.com/mod/CJs_QoL_Research_Ver1

CJ5Boss
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Re: Vote ban

Post by CJ5Boss » Thu Jan 17, 2019 3:39 pm

henke37 wrote:
Wed Jan 16, 2019 5:19 pm
Let players vote out people they don't like. Such as griefers. Let the server owner disable it if they don't like it.
Did you notice the loophole pointed out earlier? If the server has a majority of griefers, this voting system will not work. This was mentioned earlier in the thread.
"Artillery laser cannon shotgun uranium explosive turret tanks" would be the greatest thing ever.
You might try checking out my mod: https://mods.factorio.com/mod/CJs_QoL_Research_Ver1

Darinth
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Re: Vote ban

Post by Darinth » Thu Jan 17, 2019 4:16 pm

CJ5Boss wrote:
Thu Jan 17, 2019 3:39 pm
henke37 wrote:
Wed Jan 16, 2019 5:19 pm
Let players vote out people they don't like. Such as griefers. Let the server owner disable it if they don't like it.
Did you notice the loophole pointed out earlier? If the server has a majority of griefers, this voting system will not work. This was mentioned earlier in the thread.
He originally posted that as a separate topic. It was only merged into this topic later.

nekkun
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Re: Vote to Kick/Ban

Post by nekkun » Thu Jan 17, 2019 8:11 pm

I might have a simpler solution to all this. I've skimmed over what everyone wrote and Ghoulish has an idea close to mine.

tl;dr: Users are assigned privilege levels when joining a server. Depending on your access level, you can only do so much. As such, someone who just joins has no ability to build/destroy without being promoted by a server mod/host to regular player.

Here's my idea.
Every player is assigned a "access" level (for lack of better name).

1. Host (Admin)
2. Steam Friend (Mod)
3. Regular Access (Player)
4. Guest (Random player)

When the server is made, the person who made the server is "host" and has full admin privileges. Kick, ban, build, delete, command line access, etc. Steam friend is anyone who is your steam friend. When they join your game, they have almost the same privileges, but minus a few "admin" ones effectively making #2 the "mod" role. When a random person who isn't your steam friend joins, they are put into group #4. Group #4, or Guest, can't do anything. They can't build, destroy, create, vote on kick/bans, they can only observe and have to wait for someone to move them up to group #3 to build/destroy.

Additionally this could be used for pvp/rp servers and simply rename the roles. 1 could be "god" or whatever the RP system is, 2 could be faction leader, 3 could be captain, 4 could be soldier, and you could make a 5th group with no privileges just in case random people join too. On headless servers, you could change it so that the server itself is the admin and everyone else is just a "regular access" and proceed from there with server commands or the console. Here's a simple example of a PvP set up:

1. Server (headless server ideally. full admin priv)
2. Faction Leader (can promote between ranks of own faction, can kick/ban with no vote, set specific flags like alliance and such)
3. Faction Captain (full access to build/destroy, full access to trains and their routes, can start vote kick/ban)
4. Faction Soldier (access to certain items/recipes, can do damage to others, can vote on kick/ban but not start)
5. New Player (no access what so ever, no damage, no building, no voting, take extra damage for not being on a faction)

This means we don't need to spend time on figuring out a way to blacklist players or create a "point" system that would give players fast-access to try and exploit it. A vote/ban system would be a lot harder to defeat by mass-joining with other griefers - no one has a vote until they're promoted. Even then you can make it so only certain groups could vote kick/ban in a config file for the server some where? The only way would be if an exploit was found where someone could promote themselves up thru the access levels.

Theres no need to record data on who build/destroyed what, when, where, how, and any other data like that to decode who greifed or not (while it would be nice to have in general) because no griefing will be happening. The only people who are griefing are those who are holding exploits that even the devs don't know about and no longer script-kiddies or just bored people joining random servers.

Unfortunately, as I am only now considering learning to program I have no idea how to implement this. Would this be a server mod or is it something factorio itself would have to implement?

Edit: I just realized this is also a way to implement factions in a pvp server. I don't even play pvp in this game at all.

henke37
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Re: Vote to Kick/Ban

Post by henke37 » Fri Jan 18, 2019 4:52 pm

A simple vote ban is enough. If the majority of the players on a server no longer wants to play with someone, then they clearly don't want to play together. To counter greifers calling votes, make it so that repeated vote bans eventually force either the target or the caller out of the server. If they don't want to play together, then they clearly don't belong on the same server.

As for the issue of a bunch of greifers joining at the same time, there isn't much that can be done. Any attempt at making them wait for calling votes or trying to block them from certain actions is vulnerable to being gamed.

A reputation based setup may help in the long term, but how to derive said reputation? One suggestion has been reporting players. Another has been reporting bans. Which both in turn has been shown to be gameable. What is needed here is review of the reports. The CS overwatch system seems to work fine.

mrvn
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Re: Vote to Kick/Ban

Post by mrvn » Mon Jan 21, 2019 1:59 pm

henke37 wrote:
Fri Jan 18, 2019 4:52 pm
A simple vote ban is enough. If the majority of the players on a server no longer wants to play with someone, then they clearly don't want to play together. To counter greifers calling votes, make it so that repeated vote bans eventually force either the target or the caller out of the server. If they don't want to play together, then they clearly don't belong on the same server.

As for the issue of a bunch of greifers joining at the same time, there isn't much that can be done. Any attempt at making them wait for calling votes or trying to block them from certain actions is vulnerable to being gamed.

A reputation based setup may help in the long term, but how to derive said reputation? One suggestion has been reporting players. Another has been reporting bans. Which both in turn has been shown to be gameable. What is needed here is review of the reports. The CS overwatch system seems to work fine.
New players should be unable to vote or call for a vote for slightly longer than a vote period. Sure it can be worked around by the greifer waiting out the delay. But:

1) If a known greifer joins the existing players can vote kick him before he can abuse the vote system.
2) Greifers don't like investing a ton of time waiting.
3) Even if they wait it out the frequency will be low due to the delay.

Also: If the majority of players on a server are geifers the game is over so it doesn't really matter what happens. Still, the admin can kick them and give the real player their majority back.

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