Version 0.13.9

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Oxyd
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Re: Version 0.13.9

Post by Oxyd »

againey wrote:Regarding how biter behavior feels more aggressive than before, I'm guessing it might have to do with what they choose to attack. In the past, my experience was that they tended to run for the nearest gun turret, and so the gun turrets saw a lot of action, but they're designed for that, so it was all okay. But now the biters just bee-line for whatever piece of pollution they don't like, and start attacking the first thing they run into. Even if they're just barely out of gun turret range. So you really do have to spam turrets everywhere.
If they get within a certain distance of a turret, they'll go for that turret. Nothing's changed in this regard since 0.12. They've always targeted pollution sources and they've always stumbled upon turrets by accident rather than intentionally.

What has changed is which source of pollution they'll choose to attack. In 0.12, they would always go to the chunk with the highest amount of pollution (more specifically, they'd start a hill-climbing algorithm from their current position until they reached a local maximum). In 0.13, they choose to attack pollution sources near their starting position. In other words, they'll go for your perimeter or an outpost rather than the heart of your factory.
againey wrote:Walls don't force the biters to run along them looking for easier access to the source of their ire.
They do. Again, no change since 0.12 here.
againey wrote:I've noticed a lot of those square-ish pile of stones that drop from the big rocks when I finally get the tank and start driving around. Apparently even when biters are on their way to attack the base, enough of them run into the big rocks and are so easily distracted that they have to destroy the rock before they carry on.

I can appreciate that biters are too stupid to plan advanced attacks or anything. But I think that just about any aggressive animal, when faced with an obstacle, will first attempt to go around the obstacle before giving up and attacking the obstacle itself.
They do attempt to go around the obstacle first. This behaviour, again, is the same as in 0.12, although there may be some difference in how soon they give up due to some changes I made to their "getting unstuck" logic. Further tweaks to this logic may happen in the future.

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MasterBuilder
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Re: Version 0.13.9

Post by MasterBuilder »

Oxyd (Paraphrased) wrote:"I have altered their "getting unstuck" logic; pray I do not alter it any further."
I can see a large group needing to clear some trees to get to by base through a forest or something. But rocks? Those aren't nearly as hard to get around. They're certainly less common than spawners and biters must circumnavigate those.

It just seems counter-intuitive to me that biters would damage/pollute their own environment.
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Re: Version 0.13.9

Post by nuhll »

Yeah, i also dont liek that they destroy thing WHEN THERE IS A PATH. But its probably bc of lagness.

Oxyd
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Re: Version 0.13.9

Post by Oxyd »

MasterBuilder wrote:
Oxyd (Paraphrased) wrote:"I have altered their "getting unstuck" logic; pray I do not alter it any further."
I can see a large group needing to clear some trees to get to by base through a forest or something. But rocks? Those aren't nearly as hard to get around. They're certainly less common than spawners and biters must circumnavigate those.
Usually this happens when a group of biters moves together and one biter gets stuck on a rock and can't go around because there are other biters everywhere around. The logic doesn't test whether whatever's in their path is a rock or tree.

Why do you care about those rocks so much anyway?

nuhll
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Re: Version 0.13.9

Post by nuhll »

Its not realistic, also, since the items wont disapear, you have EVERYWHERE stones layin on ground...

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Re: Version 0.13.9

Post by ChurchOrganist »

nuhll wrote:Its not realistic
Neither is building a diesel locomotive in your pocket!

This is a game! Realism is entirely optional on the part of the developers!
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Re: Version 0.13.9

Post by Weresmilodon »

Oxyd wrote:
MasterBuilder wrote:
Oxyd (Paraphrased) wrote:"I have altered their "getting unstuck" logic; pray I do not alter it any further."
I can see a large group needing to clear some trees to get to by base through a forest or something. But rocks? Those aren't nearly as hard to get around. They're certainly less common than spawners and biters must circumnavigate those.
Usually this happens when a group of biters moves together and one biter gets stuck on a rock and can't go around because there are other biters everywhere around. The logic doesn't test whether whatever's in their path is a rock or tree.

Why do you care about those rocks so much anyway?
It's not just limited to rocks. It seems like they attack everything, even if in very small groups, or even alone. It's like their patience is set way too low, or it affects their behavior too much.

I haven't done much in the way of testing, so don't just take my word for it. Current biter behavior kills my interest in the game.

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Re: Version 0.13.9

Post by ssilk »

Well, anything, what's in their ways will be destroyed. Otherwise you could cheat them too easy.
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Re: Version 0.13.9

Post by Mooncat »

I don't like either that the enemies attack trees and rocks while there is path to get out of there. I find it weird, since it is their planet, they shouldn't want to destroy everything. And it takes time for them to destroy these harmless things while they should have targets of higher priority. Sometimes they look like the stupid barbarians (biters) and archers (spitters) in CoC attacking walls for no reason.

Maybe they should wait if the thing blocking their paths is actually an enemy (their friend) or anything moving? More like the unit behaviors in RTS games.
Last edited by Mooncat on Fri Jul 22, 2016 2:29 am, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Version 0.13.9

Post by Pyrii »

ChucklesTheBeard wrote:I don't have enough detail / reprodcability for a real bug report, but I managed to get the watch your step achievement by standing in fire with powerarmor + shields in a trainless playthrough...
Same. Was taking on an alien nest and died while throwing flames about. I assume I died from my own fire as the final hit.

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