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The train loading and unloading is still a bit cumbersome. I thought the inserter bug where using one requester chest and filling multiple types of goods into one wagon from one requester chest was fixed, but it looks like the inserter (stack) still blocks trying to put eg. repair packs in a train wagon where there is no more room and just holds the item in it's hand indefinitely.

I thought of what I think is a very clean and beautiful design to improve train interaction with the logistics network. This is by creating 3 new entities, a logistics requester arm, passive provider arm and active provider arm. These arms would look similar to how train stops look in 0.13 and would overhang cargo wagons. They would also have internal storage and function like their respective logistics chests. This way at you main base, you can use a requester arm and request the goods you want and they would be stored in the arm itself (visually maybe it can have a big box or crate beside the arm). Then when a wagon parks under it, it would load from it's own inventory into the wagon.

Then at the outpost you would use a passive provider arm and it would take goods out of the cargo wagon based on the limits it has set (you need to be able to set limits at least at the level of the cargo wagon, per stack) and just keep them inside until robots need them.

The active provider as you can all guess, would function in a similar manner to it's active provider chests.

I feel this would really improve train management and link it better with the logistics network.

This would also solve the issue of the cargo wagons needing to behave differently depending on what base you are at. Ie. having a requester wagon instead of an arm, would have this limitation, where you would want the wagon to behave differently at each stop as I described above.

This isn't a bug report...

Rseding91 wrote:This isn't a bug report...

Yeah, obviously...

factoriouzr wrote:I thought the inserter bug where using one requester chest and filling multiple types of goods into one wagon from one requester chest was fixed, but it looks like the inserter (stack) still blocks trying to put eg. repair packs in a train wagon where there is no more room and just holds the item in it's hand indefinitely.

It has been explained here - it was never considered as a bug, it's a mechanic that you have to deal with by using multiple requester chests and inserters. But that was in 0.12 - now, in 0.13 you can set the requests for the Requester Chest from the circuit network, so...

Three new inserters? I would like this to be moved to won't implement. Anything against?

ssilk wrote:Three new inserters? I would like this to be moved to won't implement. Anything against?

Based on "These arms would look similar to how train stops look in 0.13" plus my imagination, I think he is not talking about inserters, but entities that look like the new train stop, but are placed on top of cargo-wagons. Like Logistic Railway, with the ability to store items right there.
I think it is doable with a mod.

Well, I read it again.

My conclusion: We need some more ideas round about the problem of "Automated Train Logistics". We cannot take one single problem and fix that. That solves that single problem, but does not bring much for the game-play.

I'll leave it open and maybe I create some link collection to that subject, cause I think this is one of the "must haves" for one of the next big updates.

ssilk, that was a big reversal

Look at it this way, if it isn't fun to do in a game, it should be improved.

Another point to consider is that the cargo wagons have a lot of space and this was increased in 0.13 even more, yet I can only put 12 different types of items in each wagon due to the current limitation in loading trains (due to 12 inserters per wagon and one item per requester chest). I usually have lots of space in each wagon as I don't need to be carrying around more then one stack of almost all of the items used at my outposts (eg. roboports, robots, power poles, etc).

I had exactly the same problem and no solution to pack more than 12 diff goods into a wagon.

At least when you transport oil it is impossible to mix in one wagon because you cannot limit stacks to crude oil ( you need to allow empty barrels as well ) so any other available stuff will fill up the wagon before oil / barrels will be here. (You CAN limit one half to crude oil and the OTHER half to empty barrels but this is ugly and i can't think this is intended)

The easiest way to fix it, is having wagons connected (at least when it stops at a station) to the logistics network just like chests.
The first step could be a connection of the WHOLE train (via the station itself, which needs a redesign with input and output connectors), but each seperate wagon would be great (a new scanner pole analogous to belts?)!

Then we would not need any new inserter / crane or such.

wallE wrote:I had exactly the same problem and no solution to pack more than 12 diff goods into a wagon.

At least when you transport oil it is impossible to mix in one wagon because you cannot limit stacks to crude oil ( you need to allow empty barrels as well ) so any other available stuff will fill up the wagon before oil / barrels will be here. (You CAN limit one half to crude oil and the OTHER half to empty barrels but this is ugly and i can't think this is intended)

The easiest way to fix it, is having wagons connected (at least when it stops at a station) to the logistics network just like chests.
The first step could be a connection of the WHOLE train (via the station itself, which needs a redesign with input and output connectors), but each seperate wagon would be great (a new scanner pole analogous to belts?)!

Then we would not need any new inserter / crane or such.

Create alot of chest with a single item in them. Using circuit network restrict the number of items (via item counter, i guess there are examples on this forum) they are putting on belt that lead to another inserter that just pulls everything into the wagon. Once all of desired items are loaded - use circuit condition to send the train off.
Its not that easy but the task is ermm strange at least.

Another option (if items that you are loading are always the same) is just to set the filter on train content (click mouse wheel on wagon inventory cells) and select filter (no items, but the selected can be loaded in wagon) and just load from the mixed belt. Its not the fastest method (because of no stack inserter bonus) but it will work.

As said: This (and the previous) is one possible solution, but eventually not the best.

What's missing here is a more systematic view to this problem and some list of possible solutions.

You can load 24 different Items in a Train using longhanded inserters And thats probably sufficent

Hm.
That's part of the problem. Another is, that you cannot fill a wagon exactly, cause we have the inserter stack size bonus.

I think the problem is, that it is difficult to say, what the problem is. But that is only part of the problem.

i really don't like quoting myself so:

Why can't a wagon post it's content just like a chest? For starters the whole train posts it's content to the net like a f***** chest does right now?

Just a single little change to be made: ADD an OUTPUT feed to the station.

I think this was a clear enough answer to the problem.

wallE wrote:Why can't a wagon post it's content just like a chest? For starters the whole train posts it's content to the net like a f***** chest does right now?

I think this was a clear enough answer to the problem.

Thirst off - don't be so toxic.
Second off - see this thread

wallE wrote:Just a single little change to be made: ADD an OUTPUT feed to the station.

It is not that easy, for the station / the whole train alone would not be enough. As the above linked thread explains you can handle a number of cases with that, but not all. You need separate outputs for each wagon.

So long this isn't the case I can recommend to use a mod like https://mods.factorio.com/mods/Optera/I ... y%20Sensor
cause I think in the end the vanilla solution will not look very different to this.