Page 1 of 2
Inserter Filtering as a Tech Unlock
Posted: Tue Aug 05, 2025 12:27 pm
by crimsonarmy
TL;DR
Add inserter filtering as either its own technology or as part of the fast inserter tech.
What?
Not sure what to put here I think the TL;DR says it pretty well.
Why?
It would reduce complexity for new players at the very start.
It would highlight that filtering is a thing that exists on inserters like filter inserters once did.
Re: Inserter Filtering as a Tech Unlock
Posted: Tue Aug 05, 2025 9:09 pm
by Panzerknacker
Agree 100%, especially with the complexity for new players thing. The worst part is, by having this tech always from the start on even the simplest inserters it encourages a playstyle that is sub-optimal, relying on the filters instead of setting up proper logistics. Like this is 'the' way to play.
I never liked this change at all from the moment it was anounced. I would like to see it reversed completely. If that's not an option then your idea is the second best I think.
Re: Inserter Filtering as a Tech Unlock
Posted: Wed Aug 06, 2025 1:07 am
by Jap2.0
Not sure if I agree or not, but it's an interesting idea. You might as well include splitters while you're at it.
Re: Inserter Filtering as a Tech Unlock
Posted: Wed Aug 06, 2025 6:05 am
by Stargateur
I like the idea
Off topic: I think get rid of filter inserter was a genius change.
Re: Inserter Filtering as a Tech Unlock
Posted: Wed Aug 06, 2025 1:06 pm
by eugenekay
There were not
that many changes to the
InserterPrototype definition between 1.X and 2.X - in fact, the filter_count property remains unchanged with the same default value of 0! So a Mod can define a custom "Simple Inserter", and it will work exactly as expected:
- 08-06-2025, 09-03-00.png (45.5 KiB) Viewed 580 times
What did change was the "Base Game" Mod's
LUA definitions for each Inserter - they now all override the Default to provide "5" Filter slots.
Re: Inserter Filtering as a Tech Unlock
Posted: Wed Aug 06, 2025 1:15 pm
by boskid
Primary challenge with features like that is what should happen when someone imports a blueprint with an inserter that already has filters configured. There are 3 approaches:
1/ Do not allow placing inserter with filters while filters are not researched. This would be the same as assembling machines and unresearched recipes which was quite often complained about because it forced players to stamp same blueprint over and over again after technologies were unlocked.
2/ Allow placing inserter with filters, effectively bypassing need for a research. This would be similar to the circuit network wires in a blueprint that can be added even when circuit network technology is not researched. This also triggers some players as something that should be changed.
3/ Allow placing inserter with filters but have filters remain inactive until a research. This would create a lot of issues about whether to show or to hide those filters. If they would be shown then players could get confused that inserter has filter configured but filters do not work only to realize technology is not researched. Other option is to hide those filters but then if you copy paste a random inserter using a blueprint you would not be aware that you are also copying filters and when filters would be researched those filters would appear randomly on multple inserters that were used by that inserter that was copy pasted all over around.
So given that it not possible to implement in a way that wont make players complain about something, i am going to say this is not going to be implemented. Only reasonable restriction is having filters be gated by a specific entity which you need to craft, which means having a special technology that unlocks inserters with filters. For base game we decided that there is not enough colors to make inserters look unique and so we decided having less inserters with always enabled filters is a better solution.
Re: Inserter Filtering as a Tech Unlock
Posted: Wed Aug 06, 2025 2:28 pm
by Panzerknacker
boskid wrote: Wed Aug 06, 2025 1:15 pm
Only reasonable restriction is having filters be gated by a specific entity which you need to craft, which means having a special technology that unlocks inserters with filters. For base game we decided that there is not enough colors to make inserters look unique and so we decided having less inserters with always enabled filters is a better solution.
I perfectly understand this from the perspective of a situation you guys must have been in; hitting that release window. Now that the game has shipped though and pressure is (possibly) a little lower, it doesn't sound like an impossible challenge that much, does it? How about making not just a different color, but a really unique design for the filter inserter? It must be very advanced afterall, being able to filter items, like having cameras in there, sensors, NVIDIA Blackwell GPU's with neural networks running, all that cool stuff.
Re: Inserter Filtering as a Tech Unlock
Posted: Wed Aug 06, 2025 2:57 pm
by crimsonarmy
boskid wrote: Wed Aug 06, 2025 1:15 pm
Primary challenge with features like that is what should happen when someone imports a blueprint with an inserter that already has filters configured. There are 3 approaches:
1/ Do not allow placing inserter with filters while filters are not researched. This would be the same as assembling machines and unresearched recipes which was quite often complained about because it forced players to stamp same blueprint over and over again after technologies were unlocked.
2/ Allow placing inserter with filters, effectively bypassing need for a research. This would be similar to the circuit network wires in a blueprint that can be added even when circuit network technology is not researched. This also triggers some players as something that should be changed.
3/ Allow placing inserter with filters but have filters remain inactive until a research. This would create a lot of issues about whether to show or to hide those filters. If they would be shown then players could get confused that inserter has filter configured but filters do not work only to realize technology is not researched. Other option is to hide those filters but then if you copy paste a random inserter using a blueprint you would not be aware that you are also copying filters and when filters would be researched those filters would appear randomly on multple inserters that were used by that inserter that was copy pasted all over around.
So given that it not possible to implement in a way that wont make players complain about something, i am going to say this is not going to be implemented. Only reasonable restriction is having filters be gated by a specific entity which you need to craft, which means having a special technology that unlocks inserters with filters. For base game we decided that there is not enough colors to make inserters look unique and so we decided having less inserters with always enabled filters is a better solution.
This makes a lot of sense. Thanks for explaining it.
Re: Inserter Filtering as a Tech Unlock
Posted: Wed Aug 06, 2025 5:52 pm
by Sad_Brother
I prefer first option as it already exist for assembler.
The second option was really surprise for me.
Re: Inserter Filtering as a Tech Unlock
Posted: Wed Aug 06, 2025 6:22 pm
by Jap2.0
boskid wrote: Wed Aug 06, 2025 1:15 pm
1/ Do not allow placing inserter with filters while filters are not researched. This would be the same as assembling machines and unresearched recipes which was quite often complained about because it forced players to stamp same blueprint over and over again after technologies were unlocked.
Picking this as the most reasonably sounding option (to me)—to be honest I don't really see an issue here. I assume this would be a fairly early research, I don't see filter inserters used much in the early game (do others?), and from what I've gathered the approach of "open the game and immediately plop down a blueprint going all the way to space science" isn't really encouraged.
Re: Inserter Filtering as a Tech Unlock
Posted: Wed Aug 06, 2025 10:13 pm
by crimsonarmy
Jap2.0 wrote: Wed Aug 06, 2025 6:22 pm
boskid wrote: Wed Aug 06, 2025 1:15 pm
1/ Do not allow placing inserter with filters while filters are not researched. This would be the same as assembling machines and unresearched recipes which was quite often complained about because it forced players to stamp same blueprint over and over again after technologies were unlocked.
Picking this as the most reasonably sounding option (to me)—to be honest I don't really see an issue here. I assume this would be a fairly early research, I don't see filter inserters used much in the early game (do others?), and from what I've gathered the approach of "open the game and immediately plop down a blueprint going all the way to space science" isn't really encouraged.
I completely agree with you on this. However, I'm guessing the issue is even if a vast majority of the player community would be fine with it (as I haven't heard too many complaints about assembler recipes; then again not a dev; maybe I am wrong), that last bit of the player-base will be outraged that something went from "fine" to "bad" (reiterating that this sentence is speculation).
Re: Inserter Filtering as a Tech Unlock
Posted: Fri Aug 08, 2025 2:08 am
by Stargateur
- Capture d’écran 2025-08-08 040723.png (18.28 KiB) Viewed 347 times
So finally game miss a tips and tricks for filter for inserter no ?
crimsonarmy wrote: Wed Aug 06, 2025 10:13 pm
Jap2.0 wrote: Wed Aug 06, 2025 6:22 pm
boskid wrote: Wed Aug 06, 2025 1:15 pm
1/ Do not allow placing inserter with filters while filters are not researched. This would be the same as assembling machines and unresearched recipes which was quite often complained about because it forced players to stamp same blueprint over and over again after technologies were unlocked.
Picking this as the most reasonably sounding option (to me)—to be honest I don't really see an issue here. I assume this would be a fairly early research, I don't see filter inserters used much in the early game (do others?), and from what I've gathered the approach of "open the game and immediately plop down a blueprint going all the way to space science" isn't really encouraged.
I completely agree with you on this. However, I'm guessing the issue is even if a vast majority of the player community would be fine with it (as I haven't heard too many complaints about assembler recipes; then again not a dev; maybe I am wrong), that last bit of the player-base will be outraged that something went from "fine" to "bad" (reiterating that this sentence is speculation).
Trust my ... 12 years ? of factorio experience, THAT SO ANNOYING. And that one of the great improvement of 2.0
Re: Inserter Filtering as a Tech Unlock
Posted: Fri Aug 08, 2025 2:42 am
by Jap2.0
Stargateur wrote: Fri Aug 08, 2025 2:08 am
Trust my ... 12 years ? of factorio experience, THAT SO ANNOYING. And that one of the great improvement of 2.0
I'm curious, do you use filters in the early game?
Re: Inserter Filtering as a Tech Unlock
Posted: Fri Aug 08, 2025 4:13 am
by Stargateur
Jap2.0 wrote: Fri Aug 08, 2025 2:42 am
Stargateur wrote: Fri Aug 08, 2025 2:08 am
Trust my ... 12 years ? of factorio experience, THAT SO ANNOYING. And that one of the great improvement of 2.0
I'm curious, do you use filters in the early game?
Its depend but I clearly prefer that when you print a blueprint ALL is actually printed. Thus maybe, it would be possible to put the inserter but make it unable to work until the tech for filter is unlocked ? Like machine that are disable as long as you don't have the recipe unlock ?
Re: Inserter Filtering as a Tech Unlock
Posted: Fri Aug 08, 2025 9:41 am
by Tertius
I remember my first steps with Factorio 1.1 with its specialized filtering inserters. Being able to filter was a welcomed but not important upgrade at the time. I didn't use inserter filtering for a long time, and I saw it as kind of gimmick instead of a really useful feature. At that time.
If I think of being there again with full filtering enabled right from the start, I'm quite certain I wouldn't have any issues with that. I would neither need it nor being confused by the filter options. It's disabled by default, and the description and use is intuitive and not at all confusing or complex. I would simply not use it as a beginner, because I would see no use for it.
Adding complexity with different blueprint behavior pre/post a filter tech unlock isn't a good thing, because it could confuse new players trying to get familiar with blueprints. In my opinion this would be more confusing than any filtering available right from the start.
If an explicit tech unlock for filtering is added, the blueprint behavior should be to just enable filtering no matter the tech unlock to avoid this confusion. Perhaps make it an unlock similar to the blueprints unlock: disable it for the first time someone plays Factorio and make it an unlock, but enable it for every new map once it was unlocked for the first time. [I'm not sure if this blueprint behavior is still in the current game. I somehow remember that from my 1st playthrough]
Re: Inserter Filtering as a Tech Unlock
Posted: Fri Aug 08, 2025 12:08 pm
by Panzerknacker
Since it has a pretty niche use case then anyway (that's what most people imply here) then the best option seems to be simply how it already was, a special inserter that can do that where you need it. Problem was the unique coloring but as I pointed out before, maybe a good solution can be found for that now that we have more time to think about it. Atleast blueprint won't impose a problem that way.
For me, it just doesn't make sense that a primitive early game entity like the Burner inserter can do advanced things like filtering items. It degrades the game tbh.
Re: Inserter Filtering as a Tech Unlock
Posted: Fri Aug 08, 2025 2:25 pm
by aka13
Filtered item insertion is (imo) a challenge in games, where any item can be inserted anywhere and clog.
Since insertion does not clog on its own either way, I always experienced the filtered inserter as a detriment. It's not as straightforward a "detriment" as you imply it to be, when it is no longer there
Re: Inserter Filtering as a Tech Unlock
Posted: Fri Aug 08, 2025 5:49 pm
by Stargateur
Please do not off topic, if you want filter inserter to come back make another thread. This is about filtering as a tech.
Re: Inserter Filtering as a Tech Unlock
Posted: Fri Aug 08, 2025 9:15 pm
by crimsonarmy
Stargateur wrote: Fri Aug 08, 2025 4:13 am
Jap2.0 wrote: Fri Aug 08, 2025 2:42 am
Stargateur wrote: Fri Aug 08, 2025 2:08 am
Trust my ... 12 years ? of factorio experience, THAT SO ANNOYING. And that one of the great improvement of 2.0
I'm curious, do you use filters in the early game?
Its depend but I clearly prefer that when you print a blueprint ALL is actually printed. Thus maybe, it would be possible to put the inserter but make it unable to work until the tech for filter is unlocked ? Like machine that are disable as long as you don't have the recipe unlock ?
This may also solve the thing that boskid mentioned about assembling machines as they could be made the same way. (see below)
boskid wrote: Wed Aug 06, 2025 1:15 pm
1/ Do not allow placing inserter with filters while filters are not researched. This would be the same as assembling machines and unresearched recipes which was quite often complained about because it forced players to stamp same blueprint over and over again after technologies were unlocked.
Note that this is different from the third scenario (see below) of disabling just the filters; however it has the same problem from a practical sense.
boskid wrote: Wed Aug 06, 2025 1:15 pm
3/ Allow placing inserter with filters but have filters remain inactive until a research. This would create a lot of issues about whether to show or to hide those filters. If they would be shown then players could get confused that inserter has filter configured but filters do not work only to realize technology is not researched. Other option is to hide those filters but then if you copy paste a random inserter using a blueprint you would not be aware that you are also copying filters and when filters would be researched those filters would appear randomly on multple inserters that were used by that inserter that was copy pasted all over around.
Re: Inserter Filtering as a Tech Unlock
Posted: Fri Aug 08, 2025 11:00 pm
by Jap2.0
Panzerknacker wrote: Fri Aug 08, 2025 12:08 pm
Since it has a pretty niche use case then anyway (that's what most people imply here) then the best option seems to be simply how it already was, a special inserter that can do that where you need it.
I think the current setup is more elegant, both because it requires fewer types of entities (and we have lots of inserters already), and because it gives you a lot more leeway in the late-game: you can filter a fast inserter, or a
stack bulk inserter, or a long-handed inserter, etc., etc., without requiring an additional type to do each of those things.
I'm mostly implying that it has a niche use-case in the early-game. (This is also anecdotal, I'm trying to glean whether others are the same.) Later on, I use them more (for science, and on Gleba/Fulgora), and while they're niche in the sense of "most of my inserters don't have filters", at this point I pretty much always have
some, so in that sense they're not really niche.