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I think Gleba spoilage could use a small rebalance. My idea is to either add a second spoilage bar (shelf life) or is spoilage is above a certain percent (90% for example) has no penalty during crafting. The idea is that if you used an item that spoils before it "goes bad", there is no penalty for an products. For example, yamacko fruit is harvested and instead instantly spoiling, it has a shelf life of 30 seconds. if used before the 30 seconds the product, yamacko mash, is 100% fresh. Then it gets a shelf life of 10 seconds before it starts to spoil. The second spoilage bar would be the grace period before spoiling occurs. The other option is if the item has spoiled by 5%, then its products start at with 0% spoilage.

I think this is a better balance for players. It gives them a chance to work with spoiling items before they go bad but still have a sense of urgency. For players that use the resources quickly, they can get 100% usable agricultural science.

I am very in favor of this. Especially since items which spoil faster can majorly effect how a very-long-time final product is spoiled. I'm pretty sure there's a very scuffed possible implementation which would involve copying all of the spoilables and making them spoil into themselves then adding a ton of new recipes as well. hmm... mod potential?

+1

vicfyr wrote: Sun Dec 22, 2024 6:08 am I am very in favor of this. Especially since items which spoil faster can majorly effect how a very-long-time final product is spoiled. I'm pretty sure there's a very scuffed possible implementation which would involve copying all of the spoilables and making them spoil into themselves then adding a ton of new recipes as well. hmm... mod potential?

+1

I don't think that will work, spoiling into itself will just cause an infinite loop of spoiling (so the spoil percentage keeps changing, but it never turns to spoilage)
Having seperate items for eac spoilage stage won't work as recipes can only specify the specific items they require, and can't specify a list of options, so you'd want twice as many crafting machines, one for each level of spoilage.
You can make it so that freshly crafted stuff is always 0% spoiled though if you don't like this mechanic.

Personally, rather than having two spoilage levels, I think adding an option to filter based on spoilage amount would be good (jist like you can with quality) that way you can choose to trash ingredients that would result in a really spoiled output.

IsaacOscar wrote: Sun Dec 22, 2024 6:33 am

vicfyr wrote: Sun Dec 22, 2024 6:08 am snip

I don't think that will work, spoiling into itself will just cause an infinite loop of spoiling (so the spoil percentage keeps changing, but it never turns to spoilage)
Having seperate items for eac spoilage stage won't work as recipes can only specify the specific items they require, and can't specify a list of options, so you'd want twice as many crafting machines, one for each level of spoilage.
You can make it so that freshly crafted stuff is always 0% spoiled though if you don't like this mechanic.

Personally, rather than having two spoilage levels, I think adding an option to filter based on spoilage amount would be good (jist like you can with quality) that way you can choose to trash ingredients that would result in a really spoiled output.

I more meant a separate dummy item that spoils into the real one. Now that I think about it more, that could probably cause a LOT of issues. I do agree on filtering based on spoil amount- it's a bit weird to me that kind of thing wasn't added. Could use it to filter out items close to spoiling preemptively.

I'm pretty ambivalent on the need for anything like this, but why have a discrete-cutoff "grace period" rather than just let output products be a few percentage points fresher than their ingredients?

ACK for a spoil adjustment. But it should be simply calculated differently. The best might be that only 50% spoiled items get a malus, and just as simple just 50% of the spoiling factor. I.e. 10% "freshness" of the base material leads to a 20% "fresh" product. Or 49% to 98%.
- Respectively effect. I won't mind much if the science pack gets the spoil of its ingredients, but the science pack shouldn't lose nearly all of its research value due to its spoiling value.

I see no value in this at all.

Just produce in a way that stuff doesnt spoil which basically comes down to not letting any belts back up, or boxes fill up and setting the spoil priority where appropriate etc. Use circuits if necessary to limit production if you have to, but generally that isnt needed as you can just build consumers with higher capacity than producers which is opposite to the approach one generally uses everywhere else.

The point of spoilage is to figure out how to deal with it. If you dilute it, then you may as well get rid of it entirely.

Khazul wrote: Sun Dec 22, 2024 3:49 pm I see no value in this at all.

[snip]

The point of spoilage is to figure out how to deal with it. If you dilute it, then you may as well get rid of it entirely.

You might be going a bit far. I don't really see a lot of point in it either, but actually to answer my own question above, the OP's proposed "grace period" amplifies the value of promptly processing spoilable resources as opposed to removing or diminishing the need to do so. You could call it adding some carrot to go with the stick, if you want.

Part of the thought process is fruit don't spoil intermediately after being picked from a tree or fruit. Most fruits and veggie take a little bit of time to "realize" they have been picked. Apples/Bananas/Oranges can go for a day or more without being refrigerated.