Factorio Forums

I want to create a supply depot but I'm stuck always creating infinite loops.

Everywhere I manufacture, I have items going to be stored in buffer chests, plus requester chest (not requesting from buffers) connected upstream requesting whatever item is on that assembly line, to drain excess storage from elsewhere in the factory and it eventually winds up filling that buffer chest for next time that item is requested.

So when I create a depot, I need a requester chest set to pull from those buffer chests, but then that needs to dump into a non-requester chest so that the bots can then access those items (the whole purpose of the supply depot). But no matter what other logistic chest I would use, that would always create a loop with the requester set to take from buffer chests. But it needs to take from the buffer chests elsewhere in the factory only. But if I change those buffer chests to something else, then THAT will create a loop with the requester chests set to drain the storage system. (I typically do that so that after deconstruction projects, those items don't just hang out forever in some storage chest monster).

Other solutions I'm just not figuring out?

Have you tried filtered storage chests instead of the buffer chests? Theyshould make bots put stuff back in the mall chests.

ichVII wrote: Fri Dec 20, 2024 1:08 pm Have you tried filtered storage chests instead of the buffer chests? Theyshould make bots put stuff back in the mall chests.

So replace the mall requesters with filtered storage chests doesn't PULL from my storage system, I'd need to have every storage chest everywhere filtered and every item accounted for since I then couldn't have any unfiltered storage chests... for which I have a lot (anything I don't manufacture yet goes into the storage dump).

The point of the original setup was that I would tear down a section of the factory and have to place 100 storage chests down and those items would never get re-used. But then ig the way I have it done, that means I can't do depots

I guess I'm using buffer chests incorrectly elsewhere?

If my depot HAS to be a requester/buffer combo (requests not from buffer chests) to avoid a loop (sounds like that is the only solution) then I would need an alternative for the mall. But I have very few depots and a lot of requester/buffer combos in the mall, so I'd rather a solution for the depot than the mall, if I could choose.

RN testing if I can disable the buffer chests when there are active requests...

No, I guess disabling doesn't keep the buffer chest from being accessed by the logi bots...

I'm coming to the conclusion that I did it "wrong" everywhere else in the factory, and across multiple planets, sounds like it will be a massive headache to correct. Or I'm just content for now letting logi requests take a REALLY long time to satisfy...

Won't be able to return to the factory until after the new year, so if anyone has run into this before I'd appreciate a solution!

mcmase wrote: Fri Dec 20, 2024 1:15 pm I'd need to have every storage chest everywhere filtered and every item accounted for since I then couldn't have any unfiltered storage chests... for which I have a lot (anything I don't manufacture yet goes into the storage dump).

I use a mix of filtered and unfiltered chests. The bots are smart enough to put anything that doesn't have a dedicated storage chest into the closest unfiltered chest. And if I decide I need to start a filtered chest, i start by placing a requester asking for any stuff that is stored somewhere. Once it is all collected, I replace it with a dedicated storage chest.

Hopefully this will give you some more options for designing your supply depot.

Amarula wrote: Fri Dec 20, 2024 1:37 pm
I use a mix of filtered and unfiltered chests. The bots are smart enough to put anything that doesn't have a dedicated storage chest into the closest unfiltered chest. And if I decide I need to start a filtered chest, i start by placing a requester asking for any stuff that is stored somewhere. Once it is all collected, I replace it with a dedicated storage chest.

Hopefully this will give you some more options for designing your supply depot.

Maybe I'm not understanding, or maybe I'm not using the chests correctly, but I wanted a solution that a) I don't have to micromanage, i.e., set and forget, and b) doesn't result in massive storages. From the above suggestion, I'm thinking that if I tear down 10k belts, they won't all fit in the filtered chests, so they'll go to an unfiltered chest, sit there forever, possibly never getting used. Or I'll have to place requesters, drain storage, and remember to come change it back so that I'm not having a ton of logi loops around everywhere.

Again, I like what I've done at the mall. I never have anything that I manufacture / buffer hanging out anywhere other than where it should be. Even if I temporarily overfill storage chests with 10k belts, over time, they're drained by the requester chest that I have upstream so that for future construction projects, we drain the storage chests before anything else is manufactured.

Again, maybe not the correct use for buffer chests... I'm not excited about reworking my entire mall with circuit conditions so that I can break loops and build depots, but in order to achieve the above conditions, I'm thinking I'll have to.

The generic solution/intended usage of logistic chests is this:

• Output manufactured items into passive provider chests
• To limit production and avoid whole chests being filled with something like speakers, lock unused slots in the chest or connect the output inserter to the logistics network and set up an activation condition in the inserter: [item] < 100 if you want not more than 100 items in the network. So if somewhere somehow 100 of these items are added to the network, for example from deconstruction, the inserter stops and the assembler in front of it as well, so it only continues to manufacture if global stock falls below 100.
• Build a big storage area with storage chests somewhere. 100 chests or 200 chests or more. I usually place a few 10x10 blocks.
• If you want to supply specific items on a specific location, for example to have it near some train station or an assembling machine consuming it, build buffer chests on that location and let it request as many items you want buffered in that location
• If you want assembling machines requesting ingredients from the logistic network, use a requester chest to supply the inserter.
• if you unload an arbitrary/high amount of items from a train and want to insert these items into the logistic network, use a active provider chest to prevent the chest being filled and unloading clogged. The items will be moved to the big storage area automatically
• if you unload a specific/limited amount of items from a train and want to have these items available in the logistic network, use a passive provider chest, since these items can stay in the chest after being unloaded.

The above will always work, although you might get the impression one item is distributed over too many chests and could be consolidated.
There are variants/small optimizations. For example, you can replace passive provider chests used for manufacturing output by storage chests. You need to set the item filter of the storage chest to the manufactured item. This way items added from elsewhere are being brought to this chest instead of being stored in a separate container. However, if you output multiple different manufactured items into the same chest, you should use a passive provider chest to avoid clogging.

Buffer chests are completely optional. They are just an optimization. They move items in advance to a place to where they would be brought anyway. Since the items are already there, they are moved much faster to a requester entity nearby as soon as this actually requests an item.
If your buffer chest is not optional in this manner, you use the wrong chest type.

Fortunately, it's easy to replace chests. Just place the new chest over the old one - the content is kept for the new chest. And as far as I remember, you can even use a customized upgrade planner to mass-convert chests from one type to the other. Dunno how many times I changed chests in my earlier malls until I got it right.

Tertius wrote: Fri Dec 20, 2024 2:11 pm The generic solution/intended usage of logistic chests is this:

Ok, this is a great starting point for intended functionality. So yeah, I've been using buffer chests "wrong" as a mechanism to break the requester loop (since you can toggle off "request from buffer chests") instead of using passive providers / storage with circuit to limit input.

In using passive providers and storage, then how would I set requester chests to only pull items to the mall but not from the passive provider / storage chests IN the mall? I want to pull from the storage dump to clean that out gradually. Basically, I create a storage dump where I'm deconstructing, often far away at an outpost, then over time I want logi bots to move those items back to the mall. That's how my current system works, and I like it, but I didn't know that I couldn't do the reverse and make a storage depot, since buffer chests can't request from each other, and currently all of my items end up in buffer chests.

Using storage chests at the mall, that ends up where I want to store 5k belts but those end up ONLY being stored at the storage dump (1000 tiles away at outpost) and the mall keeps producing / using those belts for new construction. Then I never empty the storage dump, or bots end up having to fly super far away to get those items.

Another issue with the above method, it requires too much management. If I want to store 5k belts, but then I add a new supply depot (via intended buffer functionality), raising my storage to 6k belts, now my manufacturing will turn off too early and I won't have the items for the new supply depot, so I have to go change the mall to make up to 6k belts in the logi system. My current method requires no management after it is set. So I think I'm getting at the following requirements for my desired functionality (hopefully not missing any):

1) drain storage dumps automatically
2) store a specified buffer of items available for logi or construction
3) no repeated management
4) no bot loops
5) supply depots function without breaking any of the above

Where I just now started to need #5 and can't get it. I can request items with requester chests for a specific assembler, since I just request from buffer chests. But if I need a supply depot, that involves requesting with buffer (which can't request FROM buffer = broken) or requesting with requester > inserter > buffer which creates a loop and only supplies a handful of items that then loop.

I'm sure there's a solution with circuit networks, I just haven't thought of it yet and it might be beyond my desire to get involved with that, if it's extremely complicated. So I might need to drop one requirement above.

Thank you everyone for contributing!

mcmase wrote: Fri Dec 20, 2024 3:12 pm

Tertius wrote: Fri Dec 20, 2024 2:11 pm The generic solution/intended usage of logistic chests is this:

Ok, this is a great starting point for intended functionality. So yeah, I've been using buffer chests "wrong" as a mechanism to break the requester loop (since you can toggle off "request from buffer chests") instead of using passive providers / storage with circuit to limit input......

You can't choose where bots go to store stuff or where bots get stuff inside of a network. I personally just live with one giant network, and when stuff gets done, it gets done. I'm not in a rush. I'm also not going to sit and watch the bots fly around and build something, unless I'm really drunk, I have like a thousand things I'd like to build, so I just move to the next thing. If it takes a half hour for something to get built, that's fine with me. You just learn to live with it. And when storage gets full, slap down a few more yellow chests anywhere in the network. That's it.

If that bothers you (and to be fair, I sometimes do get annoyed waiting for something critical to finish), though, look into breaking your single bot network into several completely separate bot networks, and control what goes between them with belts and inserters. That way you can control where stuff is stored and how it's stored, and where bots go to get supplies to build stuff. You'll find lots of conversations about how people implement this. To me, that sounds like the best solution for what you're trying to do.

NineNine wrote: Fri Dec 20, 2024 8:07 pm Breaking your single bot network into several completely separate bot networks...

Appreciate it sir, I'm not sure what I'll end up doing but I'm all for more ideas.

Nine Nine!

I'm not sure how storage working for you But here what I generally do:

Mall chest is a Passive Provider Chest (Red) <When bot requires some thing This is the last place they'll go.

Buffer Chest(Green) I don't use them at all. The only use I can think of is to make your defences repair faster and request thing inside building blueprint. When you holding a blueprint and press add section it add building require on that blueprint automatically.

Storage Chest(Yellow) I used them for store stuff i don't need at the moment <Bot will find item in these before they look into your mall which has Passive Provider Chest

Requester Chest(Blue) Used them with mall(Robot port mall) And in SA Upscaling Factory As it need to be specfic quality. Very nice to have pair with Setting up Parameter or use with new Selector Combinator to request ingredient through it.

Active provider Chest(Purple) Nope No use for these Only when you need to dump all stuff like somewhere else! <Bots will try to clear these out by puting item in Storage Chest and requested Buffer Chest.

For example If you want a blueprint to be build bot will find item in your trash slot and Active provider Chest First. After that, Storage Chest Then, Buffer Chest Lastly they will go through Mall which has Passive Provider Chest (Red)

You can look at robot priority on the wiki Page: https://wiki.factorio.com/Logistic_network

Appreciate all of the replies, though nothing quite satisfied my requirements but as I'm starting to learn circuitry, I took this as a challenge. I think this solution works, it requests the items into a non-logi chest, and then when there is enough, dumps it into a buffer chest to be used. The blueprint is parametrized so that you can input min and max storage amounts.

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