Factorio Forums

What?

Add one Yumako and Jellynut tree, and one additional natural Yumako/Jellynut soil (for a total of 2, including one with the tree) to the Gleba starting area. Also, perhaps add one iron and copper stromatolite as well.

Why?

Bootstrapping Gleba is difficult, but for new players, it is particularly bad because they have yet to understand any of the Gleba concepts. The primary issue is that Gleba's mechanics require you to understand most of it before you can have even a barely-working factory, but there isn't really a good way to experiment because the closest Yumako/Jellynut trees are actually quite far away. So it is extremely frustrating for new players that there's not a good "playground". Plus, new players have no idea what any of this stuff looks like on the map. This is exacerbated by the current map generation requiring that you either hand-craft several hundred belts and landfill, or import them all, before you have a semi-working playground.

A starting area including a single Yumako and Jellynut tree, with one additional soil patch, helps new players learn all the new concepts without forcing them to walk a long time and handcraft hundreds of belts and landfill. If things go wrong, which they inevitably will for a new player, it will feel less punishing.

Of course, ideally the farms should be located far away from your base, which the current map forces us to do. So this is why the starting soil needs to be extremely limited, to force the player to go out to scale.

pipai wrote: Tue Nov 05, 2024 6:20 pm The primary issue is that Gleba's mechanics require you to understand most of it before you can have even a barely-working factory

But you do not need barely working factory to learn mechanic. It can be learned piece by piece until you get biochambers. And player is guided to this goal by technology requirements.

pipai wrote: Tue Nov 05, 2024 6:20 pm but there isn't really a good way to experiment because the closest Yumako/Jellynut trees are actually quite far away. So it is extremely frustrating for new players that there's not a good "playgound".

Jellynuts/yumako have 1h spoil time, more than enough to bring them to starting area.
Player do not even need to return to starting area to experiment.
Distance helps to learn these plants one at time, instead of both together.

pipai wrote: Tue Nov 05, 2024 6:20 pm This is exacerbated by the current map generation requiring that you either hand-craft several hundred belts and landfill, or import them all

What? I have no idea why would anyone do such thing. Naked start on Gleba is not really different from start on Nauvis. Gather ore from stromalites, place it to stone furnaces, wait for plates, craft poles, offshore pump, boiler, steam engine and assemblers - handcrafting is over. It is even easier because you do not need to handcraft labs and red science.

pipai wrote: Tue Nov 05, 2024 6:20 pm A starting area including a single Yumako and Jellynut tree, with one additional soil patch, helps new players learn all the new concepts without forcing them to walk a long time and handcraft hundreds of belts and landfill. If things go wrong, which they inevitably will for a new player, it will feel less punishing.

Do you mean concept of replanting? They can just open "tips and tricks" to find text, links to items and even video of this concept.
And on start all trees look the same. So most probably player will farm this two starting trees without any understanding of what has happened and will try to find more yumako/jelly among other swamp flora instead of searching for specific area.

This is exacerbated by the current map generation requiring that you either hand-craft several hundred belts and landfill, or import them all, before you have a semi-working playground.

Or you can carry them by hand (maybe car), and you really get to intimately feel the mechanic of spoilage. (Which seems fine.)

(Since of course you'll first try to carry mash/jelly, then realize your mistake, and only then start thinking about belts.)

I didn't build in the starting area first either, rather (after that very early processing near the treefarms) on the swamp islands in-between the Yum/Jel areas. (But still somewhat close to the stone mining.)

P.S.: This is also probably why stromatolites give quite a lot of ore ?