Radar wireless transmission experiment.jpg (365.3 KiB) Viewed 1453 times
Using the mod : https://mods.factorio.com/mod/fff-402-radars that propose an early version of the future radar transmission as announced for the expansion in the FFF 402 i made this contraption to illustrate one simple way to transmit several iron ore quantity through the same global network , the logic is not that hard but the task maybe sound daunting, when it sound much easier to create a different channel for each outpost, i thought it could be an illustration that the logic necessary to transmit different quantities of "iron ore" through a single channel doesn't have to be super complex.
1) color of the oupost, that will be wirelessly transmitted for demonstration
2) single decider combinator per outpost , allowing the color to be passed to the radar when the condition is met
3) single constant combinator per outpost, storing the "name" / "ID" of the outpost, under the form of a signal "info" with a value of 1 2 3 4 5 or 6 in the demo map, it also store a quantity of iron, to show another quantity wirelessly transmitted for demonstration
4) lamp indicating that currently this particular outpost is broadcasting to the network its color and its quantity of iron
5) single decider combinator in the main base, this is used to continously call 1 oupost
6) show which outpost is called, currently 3rd lamp from the left, which correspond to the 3rd outpost
7) color of the outpost being called wirelessly transmitted
8) The button to press by pressing F when hovering over it , this is modded , it's used to call the next outpost, pressing several time call each outpost successively and then none, and then restart, it works with the decider (5) to generate a 1tick signal, that will then be stored.
9) nixies tube showing the quantity of iron from the outpost being called, it reads 3000 because there is written 3000 iron ore in the combinator under the lamp in (4).
It's just a way to generate a pulse, the pushbutton, but any belt or inserter in "pulse" mode could do, when thinking about the simplest. It need to generate a "1" for 1/60th second.
Then this pulse is stored, but this is just to make it more visible for demonstration, such combinator isn't even required. In real use, it could be multiplied by any number to call a specific place like outpost 14 or outpost 423 765 432 . It is a "green signal V" so as to leave all material possible transmission.
On the oupost side they have a manually given number 1 2 3 ... 423 765 432 ... in their constant combinator, on the signal "info", and a single decider that read if the amount of "green V signal" generated previously is the same as their given number.
Pushing the button makes the combinator (5) store 1 pulse, and thus call the oupost one, until pressed again, then there are 2 pulses in memory, so it shows the second oupost and when it reaches 7 it reset.
Blueprint contain what's visible on the screenshot which is the "base" and 3 outpost, but the map has 6 outpost total but there was no more color available then.
Edit: fixedI do not recommend copy pasting the radar in the current state as it will break the connexions. But maybe it will be upgraded later. And the blueprint too when the expansion is released.
That is exactly how you should be transmitting ore values from outpost and not at all what channels would be for, imho.
In a bigger setup you would have one channel "Outpost ore" with this setup to go through all the outposts. Then you would have for example another channel "Power for ore" that uses the same signals (iron ore, copper ore, ...) to tell the outposts to turn the miners on or off depending on your current available power and need to specific ores.
For me channels would be to separate signals with different meaning, not to separate different sources with the same meaning. It's easy to multiplex all mining outposts onto a single channel. It's much harder to multiplex all mining outpost onto a channel-less radar while also multiplexing all power control, all smelters, all science production, building material, items to export to space, ... all mixed together.
Re: Wireless transmission using (modded) radars
Posted: Mon Mar 18, 2024 1:28 pm
by mmmPI
mrvn wrote: Mon Mar 18, 2024 12:03 pm
That is exactly how you should be transmitting ore values from outpost and not at all what channels would be for, imho.
Thank you that's a demo model, it transmit color and quantity, so there is an example of different channel/signal, and an example of same channel/signal "iron ore". You could use it for other things if you want to.
mrvn wrote: Mon Mar 18, 2024 12:03 pm
In a bigger setup you would have one channel "Outpost ore" with this setup to go through all the outposts. Then you would have for example another channel "Power for ore" that uses the same signals (iron ore, copper ore, ...) to tell the outposts to turn the miners on or off depending on your current available power and need to specific ores.
I do not share that use case. I do not turn off my outpost when i lack power, they usually turn off by themselves when their buffer for trains is full. Otherwise i would consider placing an accumulator next to each power switch for each outpost so that they can turn themselves off without the need for wireless transmission because i would want to save my bandwith when i can.
mrvn wrote: Mon Mar 18, 2024 12:03 pm
For me channels would be to separate signals with different meaning, not to separate different sources with the same meaning.
Channels to me is the proper term to refer to things like "iron ore" "copper ore " "letter A" letter B" and so on, all those are different channels present on a single wire.
Each channel is isolated from the others in that you can transmit value on each channel, they won't get mixed with each other. A wire group a bunch of channels.
This means you can use a "channel" like "letter A" for different purpose, for example , you can say that letter A will only call oupost for its quantity of iron when the number is positive, but when the number is negative the outpost is tasked to turn itself off because you don't have enough power. If that is your use case.
You can also go for smarter solution, there is no end to this challenge, for example, do you have a million outpost ? probably not, you could say if you ask for outpost
1 000 007 , you are calling the oupost 7, and you are asking for the iron quantity, but if you ask for 1 100 007, you are asking for the iron quantity and also telling the outpost to turn itself off. And you can use -7 to tell the oupost to self destruct, or something. It's more efficient to use the binary form of the numbers, it's still not requiring any clock at this point you could remote control by circuit many things on your factory, like increasing the limit in some places, reducing it in others, turning on or off some production chain, the only limit is your imagination ! and also time, it takes time
mrvn wrote: Mon Mar 18, 2024 12:03 pm
It's easy to multiplex all mining outposts onto a single channel. It's much harder to multiplex all mining outpost onto a channel-less radar while also multiplexing all power control, all smelters, all science production, building material, items to export to space, ... all mixed together.
I hope i have left on this topics some tips on how to achieve that much harder multiplexing, but in a real game, i would recommend using accumulator next to each oupost to monitor the power, and potentially you could then change the rule of that power switch using the system i showed you, so you would have an outpost that can be in mode "turn off when power<50" or "turn off when power <30" or "never turn off", and you'd use manual remote transmission to change this mode but otherwise the outpost wouldn't need constant stream of data from main base to know if it need to turn off or not, it's be smart outpost !
Senders broadcast the amount of items or fluids they contain or other data definable by the player. Each amount is broadcast as a numeric value on a 'channel' corresponding to the item. For example, a Storage Tank containing 1000 Crude Oil will broadcast 1000 on the Crude Oil channel.
I'm afraid you missed an opportunity to stay silent.
mrvn wrote: Mon Mar 18, 2024 3:56 pm
I also don't need any help, this was about the proposed FFF feature.
Sorry if i misunderstood your demands to modify the presented feature to make it easier to suit your use case as a need for help.
Senders broadcast the amount of items or fluids they contain or other data definable by the player. Each amount is broadcast as a numeric value on a 'channel' corresponding to the item. For example, a Storage Tank containing 1000 Crude Oil will broadcast 1000 on the Crude Oil channel.
I'm afraid you missed an opportunity to stay silent.
mrvn wrote: Mon Mar 18, 2024 3:56 pm
I also don't need any help, this was about the proposed FFF feature.
Sorry if i misunderstood your demands to modify the presented feature to make it easier to suit your use case as a need for help.
Well, I'm going to take the opportunity to stay silent now. You are back on ignore.
and also time, it takes time 