Improvement of crafting queue

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krayziez
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Improvement of crafting queue

Post by krayziez » Fri May 01, 2015 6:51 pm

For the link-list of this topic see down! -- ßilk

I can't believe these haven't been implemented yet.

1) When an item is in the toolbox, and when crafting something that requires that item as one of the ingredients, then do NOT take away that item to craft the current item. Example: Normal inserter. Many things require this as part of the crafting ingredient. Trying to craft a science pack 3 for example will just eat all of my inserters up. This shouldn't happen if it's in the toolbox. If there's some doubts about this, then at least if the player has the item hardcoded (middle mouse button) and has the item in toolbox, then it should stay there and not get eaten up. I can't tell you how many times my items get eaten up mysteriously just cuz I have to craft something else that's totally unrelated. If it's in normal player inventory, then fine but if it's in toolbelt, it should be assumed that players are going to use that item.

2) Have a way to move/rearrange the queue of player crafting. Kinda annoying if I have say 100 science 3 packs crafting but then I'm doing something and I want to just craft a belt or an inserter. Should be a way to put these first in queue. The simplest thing you can do is maybe have a hotkey button to be able to queue the new item at the beginning and not the end after the rest. Maybe alt+click or something.

Both of these suggestions should be very easy to implement and will improve the gameplay GREATLY. Hope it's done with the next update! But by then I'll probably finish the game again a 2nd time lol. And by the way, there should be a clear "easy, medium, hard" mode. Currently playing a very easy mode, I kept everything default but don't know how to make it harder.


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Re: 2 VERY SIMPLE implementions that are MUSTS! Can't believe it's not done yet.

Post by bobingabout » Fri May 01, 2015 11:33 pm

1. when I'm at the point that I'm crafting this sort of stuff by hand, I carry around a chest. I put down the chest, put all my inserters in it, then queue up the science packs, then mine the chest and continue. So this is a thing that definitely needs to exist.

2. also agreed.


Also, both of these sugestions have been sugested before, and often.
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Re: 2 VERY SIMPLE implementions that are MUSTS! Can't believe it's not done yet.

Post by ssilk » Fri May 01, 2015 11:55 pm

I craft the item, that "eats" the inserters and immediatelly I craft then also some more inserters. Cause it is made after that item in the queue, it is not eaten up.
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Re: 2 VERY SIMPLE implementions that are MUSTS! Can't believe it's not done yet.

Post by Peter34 » Sat May 02, 2015 6:07 am

It's deliberate that the game is designed this way. We're not meant to craft large quantities of anything by hand.

I still sometimes find myself doing that, yes, but when I find myself doing it I acknowledge that I'm playing Factorio wrong. E.g. if I find myself with a huge queue to craft 200 Science Pack 2, or even 75 Science Pack 3 (to get Advanced Oil Processing).

Factorio is about automating things. A skilled player, a player who has mastered the game, or a given stage of the game (e.g. the early game, or the mid game) by definition has no need to hand-craft large quantities of anything.

I'm not there yet. But I'm aware that it's a destination.

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Re: 2 VERY SIMPLE implementions that are MUSTS! Can't believe it's not done yet.

Post by krayziez » Sat May 02, 2015 11:10 am

Peter34 wrote:It's deliberate that the game is designed this way. We're not meant to craft large quantities of anything by hand.

I still sometimes find myself doing that, yes, but when I find myself doing it I acknowledge that I'm playing Factorio wrong. E.g. if I find myself with a huge queue to craft 200 Science Pack 2, or even 75 Science Pack 3 (to get Advanced Oil Processing).

Factorio is about automating things. A skilled player, a player who has mastered the game, or a given stage of the game (e.g. the early game, or the mid game) by definition has no need to hand-craft large quantities of anything.

I'm not there yet. But I'm aware that it's a destination.
It should be designed to be played how the player wants it to be played, not how the game maker or whoever else thinks it should be played. I'm just saying it adds flexibility to the player. The example I gave was just an example to get the point across. What if I wanted to build say 50 smart inserters? That would eat up all my fast inserter and normal inserter. What's the logic behind that? Each inserter is its own and has its own function. I should be able to have my 30 normal inserter and 40 fast inserter intacted while I add whatever quantity I need to replenish my smart inserter quantity, whether it be 50 or 5. I shouldn't have to craft 5 of smart inserter then anothe 5 of fast insterter then another 5 of normal inserter each time just to get my qnts of everything the same. This goes for so many other things.

You say a skilled player is about automating things. I agree but a very skilled player can do both and if the player's queue is not doing anything, then it's just a waste of productivity. If it's only meant to be automated, then why have the player be able to craft the stuff? Why not just allow only the structure to craft and not the player himself? There are a few of these items that do this but only a few and I think that was deliberate as they should be.

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Re: 2 VERY SIMPLE implementions that are MUSTS! Can't believe it's not done yet.

Post by krayziez » Sat May 02, 2015 11:15 am

Thanks for that. Seems like if it was already suggested many times, chances are they're not gonna do anything about it. Would of been a very easy thing to change anyways, and improve the gameplay big time. Anyways, doesn't matter. I'm already at end game lol.

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Re: 2 VERY SIMPLE implementions that are MUSTS! Can't believe it's not done yet.

Post by Koub » Sat May 02, 2015 11:44 am

In fact, it's more a matter of priorities. Many small features slip inside as the major features are being added, but the priority is the main features. There has been the multiplayer, now it will be the engame content, with engine optimization. Who knows what other feature will be added ? :)
But the devs have been really listening to their community so far, chances are the most asked evolutions will be added sooner or later.
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Re: 2 VERY SIMPLE implementions that are MUSTS! Can't believe it's not done yet.

Post by ssilk » Sat May 02, 2015 12:34 pm

Peter, there is no really playing wrong or right. A good game should cover any play-style. This one is of course non-optimal, but especially in the beginning, it is effective to craft stuff yourself, and yes, this can be annoying, if it uses stuff to craft that I needed for building.

This is where I changed my mind: https://forums.factorio.com/forum/vie ... eue#p69979

To those, who are interested, I made a complete list of threads, depending this crafting-queue-themes:

There mainly are these three themes, which come up from time to time.

Changing the order of the crafting queue, priorization etc.
https://forums.factorio.com/forum/vie ... f=6&t=1341 Crafting Queue Upgrades (I think most important, some other joined threads)
https://forums.factorio.com/forum/vie ... f=6&t=6952 Crafting Queue: Craft to Top of Queue; send to Front, Recalculate
https://forums.factorio.com/forum/vie ... f=6&t=5662 Improved player crafting queue (seems not to be so important)
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=21123 reorder build que
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=25154 Change item order in crafting queue
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=33593 craft this next mod?
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=41594 Ctrl+click to add to front of craft queue
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=42226 Cancelling/closing the personal crafting queue


Change automatically order if you pick up something:
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=2490 preserve manually added items in the crafting queue
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=30640 Slight Hand Crafting Adjustment

Which goes hand in hand with the next:
Displaying the needed time to craft something (before and while crafting)
https://forums.factorio.com/forum/vie ... f=6&t=1226 time left in crafting queue (display total time left, until all is crafted)
https://forums.factorio.com/forum/vie ... f=6&t=2107 Construction timers/Hand Crafting
This thread.

Which is a precondition of:
Not always automatically take items from inventory
https://forums.factorio.com/forum/vie ... f=6&t=8760 Build queue improvement.
https://forums.factorio.com/forum/vie ... f=6&t=4802 Filtered slots on the hotbar excluded as ingredients. ☸
And of course this thread.

( For completeness: Idea that should be implemented as mod first
https://forums.factorio.com/forum/vie ... f=6&t=1143 Autocraft )

If we bring this three things together, it feels "round" in my eyes.
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suggestionsummary

Post by ssilk » Sat May 02, 2015 12:43 pm

Userstory: Change the crafting queue to
- Change the order of the crafting queue, priorization etc.
- Displaying the needed time to craft something (before and while crafting)
- Not always automatically take items from inventory
Prerequisites: Eventually improvement of crafting tree/research-tree.
Game-value: Enough examples in the linked threads above.
Developer-costs: Low if only a good enough solution would be built in first. High, if the game should decide intelligently, what to take an what to craft.
User-opinions: Clear.
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Re: Improvement of crafting queue ☸

Post by Peter34 » Sat May 02, 2015 3:18 pm

It would be nice to have some special click, like Alt+LMT/Alt+RMB, that instructs Factorio that it is the player character's desire to "craft from basic materials" without making use of already-existing-intermediate materials that may be in the Inventory at the time of the click. E.g. tkae Copper and Iron to make the Yellow Inserters to make the Green Potions, instead of as usual first making use of the already-present Yellow Inserters.

It's just, all that with Advanced Crafting Queue Manipulation, I don't see that as legitimately necessary. That really is a learn-to-play thing.

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Re: Improvement of crafting queue ☸

Post by Peter34 » Sun May 10, 2015 7:26 pm

One thing I would like to see, is an on-screen timer, down in the left corner of the screen, above my crafting queue, whenever I have a queue, showing a count-down of minutes and seconds (or in some cases hours, minutes and seconds - yes I think that sometimes happens to me) left to finish everything in the queue.

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Re: Improvement of crafting queue ☸

Post by daniel34 » Mon May 11, 2015 12:44 am

Peter34 wrote:E.g. take Copper and Iron to make the Yellow Inserters to make the Green Potions, instead of as usual first making use of the already-present Yellow Inserters.
The problem I see here is:
You don't want the yellow inserters you have being used to make the green potions, but do you want it to use the gear wheels you have or make them from scratch from your iron plates?
If you have spare gears in your inventory (or electronic circuits), should they be used or not?

When crafting smart inserters, Factorio can't easily decide whether you want to keep your basic inserters or just your fast inserters, or electronic circuits or gear wheels.

I think the crafting system currently used is very good and transparent. I have nothing against adding some keyboard shortcuts (or other means) of altering the crafting system, but I think it is not necessary.
New players will be overwhelmed by all the ways you can craft things and which one to pick, if they know about them.
Experienced players will know that smart inserters require basic/fast inserters and will craft them again if needed, or be happy the basic inserters are gone from their inventory.
krayziez wrote:What if I wanted to build say 50 smart inserters? That would eat up all my fast inserter and normal inserter. What's the logic behind that?
The crafting system in Factorio is optimized for crafting speed, so using your normal/fast inserters is faster than crafting the required items by hand. It will use all the premade / picked up items you have. Chance is you don't even need some of these gears/circuits/inserters you have anymore.

OT: Why would you craft 50 smart inserters in hand? (for blue science I assume)
Recipe: 1 fast inserter and 4 electronic circuits
--> 8min 58sec from iron and copper plates
Hint: Assemblers can help you with that.

Add some mods to this and Factorio doesn't have a clue what you want it to use for crafting and what not.
Peter34 wrote:One thing I would like to see, is an on-screen timer, down in the left corner of the screen, above my crafting queue, whenever I have a queue, showing a count-down of minutes and seconds (or in some cases hours, minutes and seconds - yes I think that sometimes happens to me) left to finish everything in the queue.
That actually is a good suggestion and it would not only help new players, but experienced players using mods.


EDIT quoting ssilk:
ssilk wrote:It is also a matter of thinking forward: What do I need next? How much?
[...]
I see that also in many Lets plays: They pick up just iron and copper. No wheels, no circuits. Big fail! :)

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Re: Improvement of crafting queue ☸

Post by thetoolcrafter » Sun Mar 05, 2017 11:34 am

Peter34 wrote:It would be nice to have some special click, like Alt+LMT/Alt+RMB, that instructs Factorio that it is the player character's desire to "craft from basic materials" without making use of already-existing-intermediate materials that may be in the Inventory at the time of the click. E.g. tkae Copper and Iron to make the Yellow Inserters to make the Green Potions, instead of as usual first making use of the already-present Yellow Inserters.

It's just, all that with Advanced Crafting Queue Manipulation, I don't see that as legitimately necessary. That really is a learn-to-play thing.
I have an idea, it's probably no good, but here goes:
In your inventory, you have a partition which you can set
On one side, hand crafting will take these items and use them
On the other side are items which you want to keep.
You could set how much on each side for your personal needs or you could just have just one side and play where it will consume anything
Tell me if this idea is in the slightest useful :D probably not but i can imagine it

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Re: Improvement of crafting queue ☸

Post by Ambaire » Thu Apr 27, 2017 8:39 pm

Bump. Quote of my post in suggestions forum.
Ambaire wrote:So I've queued up a few hundred of something early game, say belts in groups of 5. And then about a third of the way in, I realize I need something of x right now. As it is, my only options are to either wait for the rest to finish crafting or spam shift-r-click a few dozen times to cancel the crafting queue.

We need a hotkey for priority crafting, so whatever we try to craft with that hotkey is crafted right now and the rest of the manual crafting queue is shuffled after.
How hard can this be to implement, really? Is it something a mod could do?

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Re: Improvement of crafting queue ☸

Post by ssilk » Sun Apr 30, 2017 9:45 pm

I point to viewtopic.php?f=6&t=45300#p260939
Rseding91 wrote:We've discussed this internally and came to the conclusion we don't want to change it because it discourages mass hand crafting - you should automate the production of the items you need :)
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Re: Improvement of crafting queue

Post by Tontow » Fri Aug 25, 2017 6:24 pm

I think that moving an queued item around in the queue (or even queuing to the front of the queue) should act like you canceled your entire queue and re-queued it.

It would therefor dumb anything on the ground that you didn't have inventory space for and only restore the queue up to the point that you still had the resources for.

IE: I queued up 500 factory and I needed to queue some belts to the front of my queue. Some (or most) resources for the 500 factorys would be dump on the ground because I didn't have the inventory space and then assuming I then, at that time, had the resources for the belts, the belts would be queued up, but the auto re-queue of the factorys (and anything behind them in the queue) would fail because I didn't have the required resources in my inventory.



At the very least, we should have a way to drag select large chunks of the queue so that we can cancel those items quickly.

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Re: Improvement of crafting queue

Post by Deadly-Bagel » Mon Oct 09, 2017 10:44 pm

When crafting say science packs and it starts using your inserters, there's not really a right answer. What I do is as said above, just queue up the inserters or whatever afterwards. I think this is the most flexible solution, for starters you're going to get your Science Packs a heck of a lot quicker because you're crafting the Inserters afterwards. Need to use those Inserters? Fine, just craft them first. If you don't need them at all or have a stock somewhere then don't even bother. Regardless, it does encourage you to automate production which is the idea of the game. Saying there are different play styles is like saying repeatedly dying is a valid playstyle in a FPS game, and then complaining that the death cam and loading screen takes too long. I mean if you want to play it that way fine but don't complain about it.

That said it's nearly every game where I queue up 50 belts then find I need 1 inserter immediately... So do I dequeue 50 belts or... The ability to reorder the build queue would be immensely helpful, especially for newer players while they come to grips with the whole assembly line thing.
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Re: Improvement of crafting queue

Post by paulcsiki » Sun Apr 21, 2019 12:52 pm

Additionally can we display just the "end product" with a progress in the queue rather than add all it's requirements too? It consumes space and it's hard to see how many of the same type you have in the queue. I would display just the item you've selected to craft with a longer progress that includes the progress of all dependencies + final product and a number to indicate the quantity in the queue. If you cancel some item early you're refunded the materials and dependent artifacts that were products before the end product was finished should be taken from the inventory as well.

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Re: Improvement of crafting queue

Post by Koub » Sun Apr 21, 2019 9:27 pm

paulcsiki wrote:
Sun Apr 21, 2019 12:52 pm
Additionally can we display just the "end product" with a progress in the queue rather than add all it's requirements too? It consumes space and it's hard to see how many of the same type you have in the queue. I would display just the item you've selected to craft with a longer progress that includes the progress of all dependencies + final product and a number to indicate the quantity in the queue. If you cancel some item early you're refunded the materials and dependent artifacts that were products before the end product was finished should be taken from the inventory as well.
viewtopic.php?p=409100#p409100
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