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Almost... there...



Edit:

Just need to do this three more times and we're golden! Got everything cleaned up.

Edit 2:
And done: https://i.imgur.com/Ny7b5dY.png

Nearly done with all the buildings:
https://i.imgur.com/PyCaRsZ.jpg

kirazy wrote: Sun Mar 22, 2020 7:44 pm Almost... there...



Edit:

Just need to do this three more times and we're golden! Got everything cleaned up.

Edit 2:
And done: https://i.imgur.com/Ny7b5dY.png

Nearly done with all the buildings:
https://i.imgur.com/PyCaRsZ.jpg

it's not bad, dirt could have been a little better, perhaps mix some rust colour in there too?

However, this is again one of the ones I'd want a copy of, Youki made the original, and I've been wanting to get the colours re-done to match tiers. Also note there's 2 different versions, the higher tier pair have more parts on than the lower tier pair.

bobingabout wrote: Mon Mar 23, 2020 12:58 pm

kirazy wrote: Sun Mar 22, 2020 7:44 pm Almost... there...



Edit:

Just need to do this three more times and we're golden! Got everything cleaned up.

Edit 2:
And done: https://i.imgur.com/Ny7b5dY.png

Nearly done with all the buildings:
https://i.imgur.com/PyCaRsZ.jpg

it's not bad, dirt could have been a little better, perhaps mix some rust colour in there too?

However, this is again one of the ones I'd want a copy of, Youki made the original, and I've been wanting to get the colours re-done to match tiers. Also note there's 2 different versions, the higher tier pair have more parts on than the lower tier pair.

Youki made these two, I added the pipes, separated the shadow, and split it up for coloring. Each tier actually adds a part that wasn't on the previous one.

kirazy wrote: Mon Mar 23, 2020 3:06 pm Youki made these two, I added the pipes, separated the shadow, and split it up for coloring. Each tier actually adds a part that wasn't on the previous one.

would still like a copy of this when it's done.

bobingabout wrote: Mon Mar 23, 2020 4:28 pm

kirazy wrote: Mon Mar 23, 2020 3:06 pm Youki made these two, I added the pipes, separated the shadow, and split it up for coloring. Each tier actually adds a part that wasn't on the previous one.

would still like a copy of this when it's done.

That's fine.

Time to tackle the tedious one:


Goals:
1. Get close to real color
2. For materials that oxidize/rust/corrode in semi-real-world conditions (i.e. not 500°), show corrosion in approximately the right colors
3. For materials where color is practically arbitrary (ceramic, plastic), at my discretion, similar to native coloring.

The oxidation on titanium is there, since it oxidizes, but it's oxidation color is basically white.

I've only done the single straights at the moment (here with windows too) since I was trying to setup a reproducible workflow for every material and to then go and do all the rest.

I used reference images for most of these, but Nitinol is making me think this isn't really an application it was designed for, lol, everything I find it as medical-grade and shape-memory wires.

If you want an outsider's perspective - pipes are pretty horrible to work with, but tinting the vanilla version of them is always going to look ... exactly like someone tinted the vanilla version. It's not as bad when you encounter any one of the tinted variants by itself, but two of them on the screen at once ... the repetition is obvious when there are hundreds of them.

They are the only entity I can think of that is chopped across tile boundaries, which means that two different kinds of pipe placed next to each other is always going to look bad, especially vertically - that's not a vanilla issue because there aren't two different kinds of pipe, let alone 12.

The way they have their shadow baked into the main sprite creates nightmare situations with compositing pipe connections for other entities and using generic pipe covers - you encountered one very minor example here, there are far worse things lurking - see also the broken shadows and "visible panty line" on the top of those machines at the top of this page.

I wrestled with all of this and when I ran out of hair to pull out, I made my own from scratch. It turns out that you can treat pipes like any other entity, i.e. have them exceed tile boundaries, use a dedicated shadow layer, etc. All the nightmare compositing issues go away, even when they interact with vanilla entities, and you have the freedom to use whatever textures you like instead of tinting a clone, and you don't have to do annoying shit like grafting half a pipe picture to the south of various entities. I feel like the current iteration of pipes in vanilla was inherited from years back in Factorio development and they haven't kept up with the general improvements made almost everywhere else graphically.

It's not the worst. I agree it'd be... easier/better to just make it in blender and come up with new entities. But, eh, not my skillset. So it's easier for someone else, lol.

Making the pipes play nice with vanilla entities and the like is just being aware you need to, as you say, graft on various pipe ends (and mask out the south connections).

Shadows, I'm just leaving them as-is. It'd be easy enough to cut them out to make a separate shadow layer, but, eh, maybe later.

I mean, sure it's just a tint of a vanilla asset, but, imo, that doesn't mean it needs to look bad...

I personally think these look fabulous: https://i.imgur.com/pKSUXb1.png and they're just hue shifts.

Deadlock989 wrote: Tue Mar 24, 2020 9:53 am I wrestled with all of this and when I ran out of hair to pull out, I made my own from scratch. It turns out that you can treat pipes like any other entity, i.e. have them exceed tile boundaries, use a dedicated shadow layer, etc. All the nightmare compositing issues go away, even when they interact with vanilla entities, and you have the freedom to use whatever textures you like instead of tinting a clone, and you don't have to do annoying shit like grafting half a pipe picture to the south of various entities. I feel like the current iteration of pipes in vanilla was inherited from years back in Factorio development and they haven't kept up with the general improvements made almost everywhere else graphically.

Part of Zombiee's solution, which I actually used in my own mods, was in the north/south facing pipes, copy the bottom part over the top, and go over the pipe boundery, that means the pipe to the south overlaps the one to the north, so when 2 different pipes connect, they join at the join, not the tile boundery.
Of course, that means pipes use more memory, and doesn't fix when you use a different pipe north of a machine.

kirazy wrote: Tue Mar 24, 2020 6:14 am Time to tackle the tedious one:


Goals:
1. Get close to real color
2. For materials that oxidize/rust/corrode in semi-real-world conditions (i.e. not 500°), show corrosion in approximately the right colors
3. For materials where color is practically arbitrary (ceramic, plastic), at my discretion, similar to native coloring.

The oxidation on titanium is there, since it oxidizes, but it's oxidation color is basically white.

I've only done the single straights at the moment (here with windows too) since I was trying to setup a reproducible workflow for every material and to then go and do all the rest.

I used reference images for most of these, but Nitinol is making me think this isn't really an application it was designed for, lol, everything I find it as medical-grade and shape-memory wires.

some of the stright pipes look a little odd. (looking at it, you've only edited the stright pipes, not the other versions? they seem... lighter than the others)
I like the green rust on copper, bronze looks maybe a little too bright, as does brass and copper-tungsten, but overall... looks good, I guess.
I looked at the edit picture too where you've done the pipes with windows. didn't really change my opinoin.

kirazy wrote: Tue Mar 24, 2020 11:17 am But, eh, not my skillset.

It could be if you wanted. You clearly have the talent/eye. You also likely have more background knowledge about colour theory, lighting, composition etc. than 99% of the people who pick up any Blender.

bobingabout wrote: Tue Mar 24, 2020 12:53 pmI like the green rust on copper, bronze looks maybe a little too bright, as does brass and copper-tungsten, but overall... looks good, I guess.

Do you have preferred reference images for these? I matched ones I chose, but there is a wide variety of options here, lol.

Deadlock989 wrote: Tue Mar 24, 2020 3:03 pmIt could be if you wanted. You clearly have the talent/eye. You also likely have more background knowledge about colour theory, lighting, composition etc. than 99% of the people who pick up any Blender.

Oh, definitely, but I'm doing a masters in aerospace engineering and barely have time to chip away at this. I'd like to pick it up, because the flexibility being able to do things in CAD offers is significant.

The most challenging graphic I've had to do is actually the vanilla loader, which involved an absurd number of unique layers in photoshop and several very precise warps to turn the annoyingly curved underground belt into something flat, and even now it's not quite correct. There's very slight, almost imperceptible undulation, but it's good enough for 99.99% of people.

If I had ability in Blender, that would have been an afternoon...

bobingabout wrote: Tue Mar 24, 2020 12:49 pmOf course, that means pipes use more memory, and doesn't fix when you use a different pipe north of a machine.

The fix for this is just to mask the southern connection, which you did with most pipes (not copper-tungsten, for example), but for example this blends seamlessly with machines/other pipes:
At least, machines that use vanilla-pipe. And it'll connect nicely with the vanilla pipes without requiring editing the vanilla pipes.

I've chosen to mask halfway between the flange so that when two separate pipes connect the flanges look to be made of two different materials.

Edit: It's also really easy to do this, the north-facing pipe cover is exactly the bit that's needed to extend the north face, and drawing a circle with the tile boundary as the center line and the middle of the top of the flange the edge gets great results.

kirazy wrote: Tue Mar 24, 2020 9:00 pm

bobingabout wrote: Tue Mar 24, 2020 12:49 pmOf course, that means pipes use more memory, and doesn't fix when you use a different pipe north of a machine.

The fix for this is just to mask the southern connection, which you did with most pipes (not copper-tungsten, for example), but for example this blends seamlessly with machines/other pipes:

hr-pipe-cross.png

At least, machines that use vanilla-pipe. And it'll connect nicely with the vanilla pipes without requiring editing the vanilla pipes.

I've chosen to mask halfway between the flange so that when two separate pipes connect the flanges look to be made of two different materials.

Edit: It's also really easy to do this, the north-facing pipe cover is exactly the bit that's needed to extend the north face, and drawing a circle with the tile boundary as the center line and the middle of the top of the flange the edge gets great results.

Yeah... The colour is correct enough, though, Brass basically looks like the pipes are made of gold, I think the Saturation is too high with that one.... the main issue is when you put the additive layer on top and it adds the white to it, it's a bit too light. it works for some entities, and some instances of pipes, etc, but, not on the ones I mentioned as being too bright.

Also, yes, Zombiee did all of the pipes for me, except copper-tungsten and Nitinol which I added after that, which might be why all the others are as you've shown, but not those 2.

bobingabout wrote: Tue Mar 24, 2020 9:21 pmYeah... The colour is correct enough, though, Brass basically looks like the pipes are made of gold, I think the Saturation is too high with that one.... the main issue is when you put the additive layer on top and it adds the white to it, it's a bit too light. it works for some entities, and some instances of pipes, etc, but, not on the ones I mentioned as being too bright.

Also, yes, Zombiee did all of the pipes for me, except copper-tungsten and Nitinol which I added after that, which might be why all the others are as you've shown, but not those 2.

The color on brass I was shooting for this:


I can tweak the highlights, I have very fine control over those.

I will add that I'm not using the mask process I have been for most entities, I'm making baked images since I can get much better and more tailored results.

Edit:
The current color setting overlaid on the reference.


I can tone down the highlights, e.g:


But I don't like it as much...

I could shoot for a different reference image, such as this: https://5.imimg.com/data5/OW/FD/MY-5831 ... 00x500.jpg

kirazy wrote: Tue Mar 24, 2020 9:51 pm I could shoot for a different reference image, such as this: https://5.imimg.com/data5/OW/FD/MY-5831 ... 00x500.jpg

Yeah, that looks WAY more like the colour of brass I'm familier with than the one you were using.

On another note... Electrolysers: Looking at the tiers (when they're unlocked, materials to craft them, etc) they seem to go T1, T2, T4, T5... E2 and T2 costs steel, it should be red, E3 and T4 cost Tungsten, and should be Purple, skipping out the T3 blue.

I'm seriously considering adding an Electrolyser 5, basically just using the existing Electrolyser 4 stats and recipe for the new E5, and tweaking the existing ones, E2 being nerfed slightly, but otherwise remaining almost the same as it is now, then E3 and E4 being almost completely redesigned, for example, invar would go to E3 with something else, maybe Brass or Aluminium, and E4 using Tungsten, and something else. Silicon Nitride would also go best on T4 than the T5... it all needs tweaks.

My point though... Adding a 5th Electrolyser, going from Yellow to Green.

your thoughts? Especially from the graphics perspective, since you've just made 4 unique versions of it to match 4 tiers.

bobingabout wrote: Tue Mar 24, 2020 11:47 pm

kirazy wrote: Tue Mar 24, 2020 9:51 pm I could shoot for a different reference image, such as this: https://5.imimg.com/data5/OW/FD/MY-5831 ... 00x500.jpg

Yeah, that looks WAY more like the colour of brass I'm familier with than the one you were using.

On another note... Electrolysers: Looking at the tiers (when they're unlocked, materials to craft them, etc) they seem to go T1, T2, T4, T5... E2 and T2 costs steel, it should be red, E3 and T4 cost Tungsten, and should be Purple, skipping out the T3 blue.

I'm seriously considering adding an Electrolyser 5, basically just using the existing Electrolyser 4 stats and recipe for the new E5, and tweaking the existing ones, E2 being nerfed slightly, but otherwise remaining almost the same as it is now, then E3 and E4 being almost completely redesigned, for example, invar would go to E3 with something else, maybe Brass or Aluminium, and E4 using Tungsten, and something else. Silicon Nitride would also go best on T4 than the T5... it all needs tweaks.

My point though... Adding a 5th Electrolyser, going from Yellow to Green.

your thoughts? Especially from the graphics perspective, since you've just made 4 unique versions of it to match 4 tiers.

It would be trivial to mirror some of the electrical gadgets on the side, so that you have electrodes on all four sides of the tank, making a 5th variant. I don't have an opinion on the material requirements, though.

Edit: Extremely trivial:

kirazy wrote: Wed Mar 25, 2020 12:26 am

bobingabout wrote: Tue Mar 24, 2020 11:47 pm

kirazy wrote: Tue Mar 24, 2020 9:51 pm I could shoot for a different reference image, such as this: https://5.imimg.com/data5/OW/FD/MY-5831 ... 00x500.jpg

Yeah, that looks WAY more like the colour of brass I'm familier with than the one you were using.

On another note... Electrolysers: Looking at the tiers (when they're unlocked, materials to craft them, etc) they seem to go T1, T2, T4, T5... E2 and T2 costs steel, it should be red, E3 and T4 cost Tungsten, and should be Purple, skipping out the T3 blue.

I'm seriously considering adding an Electrolyser 5, basically just using the existing Electrolyser 4 stats and recipe for the new E5, and tweaking the existing ones, E2 being nerfed slightly, but otherwise remaining almost the same as it is now, then E3 and E4 being almost completely redesigned, for example, invar would go to E3 with something else, maybe Brass or Aluminium, and E4 using Tungsten, and something else. Silicon Nitride would also go best on T4 than the T5... it all needs tweaks.

My point though... Adding a 5th Electrolyser, going from Yellow to Green.

your thoughts? Especially from the graphics perspective, since you've just made 4 unique versions of it to match 4 tiers.

It would be trivial to mirror some of the electrical gadgets on the side, so that you have electrodes on all four sides of the tank, making a 5th variant. I don't have an opinion on the material requirements, though.

Edit: Extremely trivial:

Awesome. Thank you.

How's this for brass, old on the left, new on the right:

Reference: https://5.imimg.com/data5/OW/FD/MY-5831 ... 00x500.jpg

This is what I based bronze on: https://5.imimg.com/data5/XQ/SE/MY-1150 ... 00x500.jpg If you have another you'd prefer, let me know.

Copper-tungsten:

Reference: http://www.haotungsten.com/uploads/1509 ... 0822_1.jpg

kirazy wrote: Wed Mar 25, 2020 3:27 am How's this for brass, old on the left, new on the right:

Reference: https://5.imimg.com/data5/OW/FD/MY-5831 ... 00x500.jpg

This is what I based bronze on: https://5.imimg.com/data5/XQ/SE/MY-1150 ... 00x500.jpg If you have another you'd prefer, let me know.

Better, but still a bit on the light side of you ask me.

kirazy wrote: Wed Mar 25, 2020 3:27 am Copper-tungsten:

Reference: http://www.haotungsten.com/uploads/1509 ... 0822_1.jpg

Copper-tungsten alloy is one of the things I didn't look up a reference at all. it was originally a DyTech thing, so just used something approximately the same colour he did.
When it came to doing the pipe graphics, since Copper is this orangey colour, and Tungsten is black, I just, went somewhere between, made a dark copper. I'm amazed how much real Copper-Tungsten just looks like "Dark Copper"
Your rendition on the right though, looks more brown, perhaps add a little more saturation to it, make it slightly more on the orange side? Not to the extreme of the left image though.