* rocks back and forth in corner of shower *blargh2015 wrote: Sat Sep 21, 2019 8:37 pm There may be a problem at Logistics 2 and Optics as well - I am running two other mods not explicitly on the OK list (miniloaders and Nixie Tubes), but looks like it's a IR v. AAI conflict (These are both taken after the hotfix above):
Those look good now. Please don't kill me - I'm flipping through everything now that I can see, so came across these:Deadlock989 wrote: Sat Sep 21, 2019 9:22 pm* rocks back and forth in corner of shower *blargh2015 wrote: Sat Sep 21, 2019 8:37 pm There may be a problem at Logistics 2 and Optics as well - I am running two other mods not explicitly on the OK list (miniloaders and Nixie Tubes), but looks like it's a IR v. AAI conflict (These are both taken after the hotfix above):
Try this hotfix (unzip and replace the file in IR/code/mods/) - fixes Optics, Logistics 2 and Combustion Engines.
- if you have a better idea I'd love to hear it though No, it's good to have the help. AAI is awkward to work with, it goes about things ... differently. I originally took a really brute force approach which did all of this automatically - but then it broke a ton of other stuff if IR+AAI and certain other mods were installed, domino style. So I went back to doing it manually which is, if I'm honest, a massive pain in the neck.blargh2015 wrote: Sat Sep 21, 2019 9:43 pm Those look good now. Please don't kill me - I'm flipping through everything now that I can see, so came across these:
Oil processing:
Concrete Walls:
There are two different ways of adding support for other mods if you're doing it within IR's own code. One is to modify just the recipes of the unlocks themselves in code/mods/mods-data-pretech.lua. You need an optional dependency as well for that. Look at the code in that file for DSB/DCM, it's essentially doing what you need with the loaders from that mod. The tech tree build will then run after that and if you got the recipes right, all the technologies will be moved around into a sensible place in the tree automatically. I just tested this approach for Miniloaders (without AAI) and it appears to work really well - but with their default ingredients, yellow miniloaders end up in the mid-Steel Age, because they have fast inserters in them, which is a steel tech in IR.I'm also trying to make the miniloaders mod make more sense in terms of construction costs, but no matter what load order I force (either native, or adding a "(?)miniloader >= 1.8.3" to IR's info.json) they are broken past gray:
miniloader.png
I'm about to write my own patch mod that uses data-final-fixes to force rip-and-replace the recipes for that mod, and just match your loaders mod (I'm just wanting miniloaders for their train-car loading, I'm addicted and can afford the UPS nightmare
Can't help you with FNEI, sorry.blargh2015 wrote: Sat Sep 21, 2019 10:00 pm Also, FNEI is saying there's no recipe for Deadlock's Stacking Beltboxes & Compact Loaders > Express compact loader (blue one) or the red or blue stacking beltboxes. I'm not sure why FNEI can't find them - they have recipes that show in the research tab under their respective techs (although I DON'T get a "total raw" listing, so maybe a break somewhere in the production chain I haven't figured out yet)
Yeah, it looks like AAI is pretty brutal to the game data - understandable.Deadlock989 wrote: Sat Sep 21, 2019 10:03 pm No, it's good to have the help. AAI is awkward to work with, it goes about things ... differently. I originally took a really brute force approach which did all of this automatically - but then it broke a ton of other stuff if IR+AAI and certain other mods were installed, domino style. So I went back to doing it manually which is, if I'm honest, a massive pain in the neck.
I've lost focus for this particular chunk of weekend so I will go over this again tomorrow and maybe release a fix on the portal.
I'll give those a try to tinker with, thanks!Deadlock989 wrote: Sat Sep 21, 2019 10:03 pm There are two different ways of adding support for other mods if you're doing it within IR's own code. One is to modify just the recipes of the unlocks themselves in code/mods/mods-data-pretech.lua. You need an optional dependency as well for that. Look at the code in that file for DSB/DCM, it's essentially doing what you need with the loaders from that mod. The tech tree build will then run after that and if you got the recipes right, all the technologies will be moved around into a sensible place in the tree automatically. I just tested this approach for Miniloaders (without AAI) and it appears to work really well - but with their default ingredients, yellow miniloaders end up in the mid-Steel Age, because they have fast inserters in them, which is a steel tech in IR.
The other way is to do it is in code/mods/mods-datafinalfixes.lua. That will run the changes after the tech tree builder, but it means you will have to change all of the recipes and all the prerequisites for the techs that unlock them manually, one by one. Some mods link their technologies to vanilla techs that are hidden and disabled in IR because they are not used, so the prereqs need to be overwritten with something that makes sense in the IR scheme. This is the only option you have if the target mod is doing its creation of new recipes/items/technologies any later than the data.lua stage - which is the case with AAI.
Gotcha - it's just weird it can't find the recipes, it's normally pretty good about handling strange mods - it's generally nothing more than a look in the data dictionaries in the game. If I'm tinkering with it right, it can't figure out how to make vulcanised rubber or sulphur. Anyway, I'll poke at it more later.
This worked, with one caveat - turns out data.lua only calls mods-data-pretech.lua if the mods listed are detected.Deadlock989 wrote: Sat Sep 21, 2019 10:03 pm There are two different ways of adding support for other mods if you're doing it within IR's own code. One is to modify just the recipes of the unlocks themselves in code/mods/mods-data-pretech.lua. You need an optional dependency as well for that. Look at the code in that file for DSB/DCM, it's essentially doing what you need with the loaders from that mod. The tech tree build will then run after that and if you got the recipes right, all the technologies will be moved around into a sensible place in the tree automatically. I just tested this approach for Miniloaders (without AAI) and it appears to work really well - but with their default ingredients, yellow miniloaders end up in the mid-Steel Age, because they have fast inserters in them, which is a steel tech in IR.
Code: Select all
if mods["deadlock-beltboxes-loaders"] or mods["DeadlockCrating"] or mods["LoaderRedux"] or mods["miniloader"] then require("code.mods.mods-data-pretech") end
Code: Select all
-- Miniloaders
if mods["miniloader"] then
replace_recipe_ingredients("miniloader", {{"copper-chassis-small", 1}, {"tin-gear-wheel",4}, {"transport-belt", 2}, {"tin-plate",4}})
replace_recipe_ingredients("fast-miniloader", {{"iron-chassis-small", 1}, {"iron-gear-wheel",4}, {"fast-transport-belt", 2}, {"iron-plate",4}})
replace_recipe_ingredients("express-miniloader", {{"steel-chassis-small", 1}, {"steel-gear-wheel",4}, {"express-transport-belt", 2}, {"steel-plate",4}})
replace_recipe_ingredients("filter-miniloader", {{"copper-chassis-small", 1}, {"tin-gear-wheel",4}, {"transport-belt", 2}, {"tin-plate",4}, {"electronic-circuit",1}})
replace_recipe_ingredients("fast-filter-miniloader", {{"iron-chassis-small", 1}, {"iron-gear-wheel",4}, {"fast-transport-belt", 2}, {"iron-plate",4}, {"controller-mk1", 1}})
replace_recipe_ingredients("express-filter-miniloader", {{"steel-chassis-small", 1}, {"steel-gear-wheel",4}, {"express-transport-belt", 2}, {"steel-plate",4}, {"sensor", 1}})
end
Code: Select all
"(?)miniloader >= 1.8.3",
Yes, that's a relic from a time when DSB/DCM were the only mods supported at that phase of the loading. I will tidy that up for the next release.blargh2015 wrote: Sun Sep 22, 2019 12:15 amThis worked, with one caveat - turns out data.lua only calls mods-data-pretech.lua if the mods listed are detected.
There is a configuration option for it ("Miniloaders use energy"), but I leave it unchecked (I'm not sure which is default). I set the ingredients list based on the other miniloaders and LoaderRedux, although I understand they operate quite differently under the hood, outside of trains the end effect is nearly the same.Deadlock989 wrote: Sun Sep 22, 2019 1:13 am Miniloaders are electric, right? Unless you turn that off in the settings. So it's a bit of a dilemma about where they should go. Making them dependent on electricity would put the yellow miniloader unlock in the early Iron Age - a stone's throw from red belts. Put them anywhere near Logistics 1, however, and you end up with a copper/tin yellow miniloader that you can't use for another couple of hours. You could make their ingredients dependent on the state of the miniloader electricity setting, but that would mean a different tree if you switched them on or off mid-game. So I don't think there's any clean answer to that. Given that they are just mega-inserters in a box, and have actual inserters as ingredients, I'd be tempted to leave them exactly where they are.
(emphasis mine)BlueTemplar wrote: Fri Aug 30, 2019 8:39 am Oh, ok, I was thinking of Angel's (graphics) loaders, which have their own techs, IIRC late Green/Blue/Prod ?
not sure bobs would really add that much to IR unless you add in ores and plates and redo the whole thing but maybeBlueTemplar wrote: Sun Sep 22, 2019 8:23 am
And by the way, there's no reason that "most" Bob's and Angel's mod wouldn't "just work" out of the box, let's see :
Bob's Logistics : New tiers of belts, inserters, chests (including logistic chests), trains, pumps, bots, roboports, storage tanks, pipes. Check.
Bob's Power : New tiers of solar panels, steam power (coal and nuke), power poles, accumulators. And fluid burning generators. Check.
Bob's Metals, Chemicals, and Intermediates : Adds a lot of stuff, might still be compatible with DIR, as doesn't strictly require Bob's Ores. Maybe Check ?
Bob's Warfare : Check.
Bob's Adjustable Inserters : Check
Bob's Assembling machines : Incompatible with your graphics, should still work, but will look bad. Maybe Check ?
Bob's Tech : Adds a new post-Blue science "Logistic" science pack (still not renamed in 0.17 ??), and potentially Alien Science. Maybe Check ?
Bob's Electronics : Yeah, this is likely to break hard, as DIR introduces its own electronic sub-circuits. Still, you never know, a merging mod could be made ? Fail.
Bob's Mining : Most of it redundant with DIR - though what isn't might be nice to have (RIP pickaxes). Probably Fail.
Bob's Modules : Fail, though here again a merging mod might be interesting to make for the pollution creating modules ?
Bob's Revamp : (Technologies and Recipes) : Hard Fail.
Bob's Ores : Fail, though here again the possibility of merging seems interesting.
Bob's Greenhouse : Redundant - Fail, especially since they allow you to make free power !
Bob's Vehicle Equipment : Check.
Bob's Enemies : Check. (Also re-adds Alien Artifacts, which can be used with Bob's Tech.)
Clock : Check (though I always wondered why it was so UPS-heavy ?) - Doesn't require Bob's Library anyway...
Bob's Character classes (and extra bodies) : Check
Bob's Personal Equipment : Check
refining, smelting would defiantly need some major changes to make any to even begin to make since.Ok, now let's see Angel's :
Angel's Refining : Fail, redundant with DIR, though it's interesting to note that it can work as a vanilla-compatible standalone mod !
Angel's Petro Chemical Processing : Fail, depends on Angel's Refining anyway.
Angel's Smelting : Fail, redundant with DIR, depends on Refining and Petrochem anyway.
Angel's Bio Processing : Fail, sadly, as too tightly integrated with Smelting, Petrochem, and Refining.
Angel's Infinite Ores : Check. (Not forbidden by DIR anyway.)
Angel's Addons - Warehouses : Check. (though redundant with DIR - DIR has logistic silos, right ?) (Not forbidden by DIR anyway.)
Angel's Addons - Ore Silos : Check. (though redundant with DIR) (Not forbidden by DIR anyway.)
Angel's Addons - Pressure Tanks : Check. (Not forbidden by DIR anyway.)
Angel's Addons - Petrochem Train : Check. (Not forbidden by DIR anyway.)
Angel's Addons - Smelting Train : Check. (Not forbidden by DIR anyway.)
Angel's Addons - Crawler Autonomous Base : Check. Check. (Not forbidden by DIR anyway.)
Angel's Industries : Adds Steel Age (- good job on explicitizing those BTW! -) ConBots (redundant with DIR), but, especially roboports, extenders, and Logibots (and 2x2 (logi)chests), roboport-Trains and roboport-Vehicles. Fail sadly, as for historical reasons, unlike Bob's Logistics, depends on the 4 big angel's mods... I'm still hoping for this mod to become an "Addon" someday...
P.S.: Of course, I might have made some mistakes somewhere (not to mention a lot of judgement calls)... especially since I've not yet played AB in 0.17 !
No interest on my side for this, sorry. I don't want the traffic from AB players complaining that things in some AB+IR mashup don't meet their expectations.kingarthur wrote: Sun Sep 22, 2019 9:39 am bio processing and industries though could work as stand alone with IR with some tweaking. after I get some more play on IR to get a solid grasp of later game changes and if angels ok with it i might take a stab at making some adjustments to make it work after deadlock hits 1.0. im planning on at least seeing how worth it patching angels to IR would be at some point anyway after i do pymods
They are all KarensDeadlock989 wrote: Sun Sep 22, 2019 10:27 amNo interest on my side for this, sorry. I don't want the traffic from AB players complaining that things in some AB+IR mashup don't meet their expectations.kingarthur wrote: Sun Sep 22, 2019 9:39 am bio processing and industries though could work as stand alone with IR with some tweaking. after I get some more play on IR to get a solid grasp of later game changes and if angels ok with it i might take a stab at making some adjustments to make it work after deadlock hits 1.0. im planning on at least seeing how worth it patching angels to IR would be at some point anyway after i do pymods
I don't really understand this constant pressure from players to Frankenstein overhaul mods together.
because more is more even though more is usually terrible and unbalanced and they confuse more crap padding things out with more actual challenge. i think a big part of the problem is bobs started as an offshoot off a few others til it grew to be what it is and then angel became an sort of off shoot of bobs and now AB is the big thing thats been around.Deadlock989 wrote: Sun Sep 22, 2019 10:27 amNo interest on my side for this, sorry. I don't want the traffic from AB players complaining that things in some AB+IR mashup don't meet their expectations.kingarthur wrote: Sun Sep 22, 2019 9:39 am bio processing and industries though could work as stand alone with IR with some tweaking. after I get some more play on IR to get a solid grasp of later game changes and if angels ok with it i might take a stab at making some adjustments to make it work after deadlock hits 1.0. im planning on at least seeing how worth it patching angels to IR would be at some point anyway after i do pymods
I don't really understand this constant pressure from players to Frankenstein overhaul mods together.
AAI is different because if I had never played AAI then I might never have become interested in modding.steinio wrote: Sun Sep 22, 2019 10:41 am Maybe just go the hard way and mark AAI as incompatible.
I just enjoy now your pure mod and it's great.
Hi, thanks for the feedback.Gouldukat wrote: Sat Sep 21, 2019 11:41 pm Hello i'm back with more plans ...
I think the lack of productivity hurt this mod vs vanilla.
I'll explain, IR does use some productivity here and there and you can mine less and do more with stuff, problem a long the way is: after the ingot phase, nearly nothing have it (only the rocket).
So when you get to the end game and you want to transition to megabase and making insane amount of SPM ! you can't not feasibly like in vanilla where you can beacon and productivity all so to reduce how much you need to move from step to step.
Can you do me a favour and try this third version - I tackled it procedurally this time, so it should catch any and all techs that AAI has made dependent on a disabled vanilla tech. It looks good to me in-game but a second pair of eyes would help.blargh2015 wrote: Sat Sep 21, 2019 9:43 pm Those look good now. Please don't kill me - I'm flipping through everything now that I can see, so came across these:
Oil processing:
Concrete Walls:
I don't really get the point of trying to reach, say "1k SPM" just for the number (even if it's to "satiate" a rocket silo) - it's the logistics-solving puzzle that's the point, not the numbers themselves !Gouldukat wrote: Sat Sep 21, 2019 11:41 pm Example in vanilla to max the rocket is 971 SPM and you can do it with manageable amount of resources and belts ( 24 copper lane 4 steel and 16 iron 6 plastic ecc ... you can manage it )
IR in the same scenario ( just maxing out the 1st step of the rocket 971 SPM ) do require 42 blue belt of steel ! That is kind not manageable
You will require to mine insane amount and cover so much land with machine just doing steel (you will still need to do the rest of the stuff)
So the problem will grow using the other 2 type of satellite ( ~2000 SPM or ~4000 SPM )
Because the problem is not rocket or rocket part, nor the sats building, the problem lie with the red,green,black,blue,purple and yellow science ! that you can not prod module at 40% and all the parts that you need for them too.
I think if all the chain can be prod module or at least most of it will be possible to make mega bases around this mod
What you all think ? I'm wrapping my head around how to reach up in SPM and for now i just see that you will need to make island around the map doing only some part and then ship them because moving the ingot part will be quantitative impossible.
But doing this will be a nightmare of logistic, you will need to move the plus items of washing ores, shipping and moving gas and acid.
Having 35 beaconed (10) and prod module refinery to just make 971 SPM is another problem too ( in vanilla you can do it with 24 or less )
Sooooo .... I'm looking for ideas on how to do this, because i spent 20h in game and i'm trough transitioning to end game and launching a rocket but i will want to not stop there and at least going to maximize 1 rocket ! so i will like to touch all 3 of the SPM 971 2k and 4k !
Tank you
PS: i did not remember to say, that you will need to burn tin to have more of the lead, because in recipe you use more lead then tin, that was planned by you ?
I'd like to see more parity with vanilla, where modules can be used in "final" intermediate products, that would avoid the huge increase in production due to being able to use them in all in-between steps. For me, these recipes are missing prod module permissions: Science packs. Circuits (all tiers). Rocket control units, rocket fuel. Maybe motors (engines?) and batteries. Gyroscopes and low density structures would be appealing because they are used in rocket production, but I am not convinced that it would not result in too many free resources.Deadlock989 wrote: Sun Sep 22, 2019 11:30 am Hi, thanks for the feedback.
Productivity is on my list of things to look during the big rebalancing for 1.0.0. My initial approach was to reduce productivity in recipes down to the bare minimum, because if you're not very careful with it then it can create big problems, up to and including infinitely productive positive loops.
So I will definitely be adding productivity to some more recipes. But your suggestion about making literally everything work with productivity is probably too much, if I'm honest. I do want IR to support scaling up to megabase size - some of the ideas I have for future add-on expansions will be all about that - but the issue with having such an enormous component/intermediate chain like IR's is that if you added productivity to every step of the chain, the total benefit at the end of the chain is absolutely enormous.
So this needs time and care and thought.