Factorio Forums

Ratzap wrote:There's a catch 22 problem with the new version.

You put all wood production with the new building (that's fine) but it's included in coal processing 1. To get that requires electricity, that means at least 1 electric pole. That pole however needs wood but we can't process raw wood to wood without the building. Check-mate.

Options would be take the tech requirement off the building, give the player a building, poles or some wood. You could have a techless building for the start phase and the 'real' one unlocked later.

Youre right. A new version will come when i wake up.

Wow? what the nice update - i can use tailing water to get wood, oh yeah big thanks

aklesey1 wrote:Wow? what the nice update - i can use tailing water to get wood, oh yeah big thanks

Thank you


Version updated in the main page. Please, grab the new link to be able to play the game

• Changes
• Basic wood parts able to craft by hand too.
• Fixed small incompatibility with bobs
• Hand made wood basic products is now tedious to encourage automation

Pyanodon if u increasing crafting time for basic components why not to some correct crafting time for next electronics and inserters and assemblers and mining drills and chemical plants - i mean items from vanilla
And yes i think 15 second for wood is really log? i think 6 second will be good
20 second for wooded board is long let it be 8 - we'll need basic electornic boards in military science packs
Also there are some wishes concerning carbon dioxide - in angel mods we can get this gas very simple - burn coal or burn wood - all ingenious simply it is also not necessary to invent the bicycle, don't offend dude

aklesey1 wrote:Pyanodon if u increasing crafting time for basic components why not to some correct crafting time for next electronics and inserters and assemblers and mining drills and chemical plants - i mean items from vanilla
And yes i think 15 second for wood is really log? i think 6 second will be good
20 second for wooded board is long let it be 8 - we'll need basic electornic boards in military science packs

Фlso there are some wishes concerning carbon dioxide - in angel mods we can get this gas very simple - burn coal or burn wood - all ingenious simply it is also not necessary to invent the bicycle, don't offend dude

If you put in the machine, time will decrease greatly. I wont correct the speed of all that stuff since it isnt part of my mod.
Also WPU accept speed modules, that mod isnt for small bases.

Balances may come...but all depends on how the mod will progress.

pyanodon wrote: If you put in the machine, time will decrease greatly. I wont correct the speed of all that stuff since it isnt part of my mod.

Sorry how it can't be part of ur mod........ and who then corrected these time values?

With the changes you made it's now possible to bootstrap properly.

However the log production is way too slow. 3 red packs cost 5 raw wood. 5 raw wood is 2 and a half cycles of the botanical and the wood processor. With just water (which is easy enough at the beginning) that's a grand total of 312.5 seconds - over 5 minutes to make 3 red packs. Throwing a large array of buildings at it is impractical at the start of a game given the materials cost of them.

aklesey1 wrote:

pyanodon wrote: If you put in the machine, time will decrease greatly. I wont correct the speed of all that stuff since it isnt part of my mod.

Sorry how it can't be part of ur mod........ and who then corrected these time values?

I have no idea what youre talking about. I wont change the vanilla speeds as you suggested.

Ratzap wrote:With the changes you made it's now possible to bootstrap properly.

However the log production is way too slow. 3 red packs cost 5 raw wood. 5 raw wood is 2 and a half cycles of the botanical and the wood processor. With just water (which is easy enough at the beginning) that's a grand total of 312.5 seconds - over 5 minutes to make 3 red packs. Throwing a large array of buildings at it is impractical at the start of a game given the materials cost of them.

Np! i will balance that in few hours.

hi will you please do at the beginning of the pipe for combustion gases, if you put a lot of study packs, I don't know what to do with liquid storage no.

привет сделай пожалуйста в начале трубу для сжигания газов, если ставить много исследовании пакеты, я не знаю куда девать жидкости, хранилищ то нет.

Airat9000 wrote:hi will you please do at the beginning of the pipe for combustion gases, if you put a lot of study packs, I don't know what to do with liquid storage no.

привет сделай пожалуйста в начале трубу для сжигания газов, если ставить много исследовании пакеты, я не знаю куда девать жидкости, хранилищ то нет.

hi! we have a language barrier here. I didn't understood what you tried to say my friend.

He's talking about ur gases and and about storing them or venting with the bob pipe, and he is from Russia like me, i only prefer to talk only on English here ahahahaaahhh Airat

Pyanodon i was talking about vanilla recipes because one recipe is changed in ur mod its wood or wood desk as i can say if i[m watching on icon but yes its "wood" in game

I only suggest to consider your further steps and as you will observe balance to me too very interestingly

aklesey1 wrote:He's talking about ur gases and and about storing them or venting with the bob pipe, and he is from Russia like me, i only prefer to talk only on English here ahahahaaahhh Airat

Pyanodon was i'm talking about vanilla recipes because one recipe is chaged in ur mod its wood or wood desk as i can say if i[m watching on icon but yes its "wood" in game

I only suggest to consider your further steps and as you will observe balance to me too very interestingly

Ahh ok.. well..you can vent all gases in my mod using the tailings pond.

The vanilla recipes wont be changed since it´s already balanced as it is. What i did was just force all wood to use the wood building for more concise and design choices.

Ok! I did some changes.

All log production recipes are now 20s more faster.
All wood production recipes time was cut in a half.

grab the updated version in the first page

Thanks
Wood logs and wood production is already ready, waiting for news
Yeah that's big mod, and these science packs especially third science pack - oh its made my day or...... many days, i have fun, now fierce fight with bitters for fields of zinc is conducted, it isn't necessary to miss

pyanodon wrote:Ok! I did some changes.

All log production recipes are now 20s more faster.
All wood production recipes time was cut in a half.

grab the updated version in the first page

вот таки штуки нужны в самом начале. что бы сжигать остатки жидкостей - любых! потому что если я исследую технологию 150000 пакетов мне не хватит места под хранилища твои.

that is still the stuff needed in the beginning. that would burn the remains of the liquids - any! because if I explore the technology of 150,000 packages I don't have enough space for store your.
only your base - which pollute a lot, and then advanced mk4 with an air purifier not more pollution.

Airat9000 wrote:that is still the stuff needed in the beginning. that would burn the remains of the liquids - any! because if I explore the technology of 150,000 packages I don't have enough space for store your.
only your base - which pollute a lot, and then advanced mk4 with an air purifier not more pollution.

Ahhh well, im sorry, there´s no flarestacks in this mod. You can only store fluids in tailings ponds and vent gases. Research tanks to more storage. Tailing ponds will "destroy" gases and if you remove it, it will destroy the liquids inside.

I grabbed they new version, it's better but still pretty bad. Numbers:

3 red = 2 flasks = 10 raw wood = (5 x 80s + 5 x 8) / 2 = 220. So 73.3 seconds per

Make more logs? Each nursery takes a lot of materials for a starter building which includes 50 raw wood. Cut down 14 trees by hand or wait 5 and a half minutes for a nursery to make enough wood to build another.

How many am I going to need? Most people play with at least a dozen labs so you'll want a minimum of 2 assemblers making flasks continuously. That means 20 raw wood every 4 seconds - 5 per second.
The wood processor needs 8s to make 4 raw wood from 1 log so a rate of 0.5 raw wood per second given sufficient logs. Meaning I now need 10 processors to hit my target - large material cost just to make them (including 200 raw wood) and 1.5MW to run them.
To feed them it'll take 10 logs per 8 seconds = 1.25 logs per second. At 80s per log, I'm going to need 1.25 x 80 = 100 nurseries to supply the logs. Building those takes another 5000 raw wood, 15,000 iron, 5000 copper etc and will take nearly 13MW of power to run.

And that's JUST for a small research setup. You're planning on using wood more through your mod so this is simply not going to work. I know you want people to have to build arrays of structures to scale production but you really need to run the numbers and make them fit for purpose. If you're planning multiple processes needing wood or wood products then the buildings need to be able to make that amount per second in a reasonable area. Starting science needs to be doable (sure not super fast) but feed 1 lab with 1 building each of the types necessary in order to get going.

Ratzap wrote:I grabbed they new version, it's better but still pretty bad. Numbers:

3 red = 2 flasks = 10 raw wood = (5 x 80s + 5 x 8) / 2 = 220. So 73.3 seconds per

Make more logs? Each nursery takes a lot of materials for a starter building which includes 50 raw wood. Cut down 14 trees by hand or wait 5 and a half minutes for a nursery to make enough wood to build another.

How many am I going to need? Most people play with at least a dozen labs so you'll want a minimum of 2 assemblers making flasks continuously. That means 20 raw wood every 4 seconds - 5 per second.
The wood processor needs 8s to make 4 raw wood from 1 log so a rate of 0.5 raw wood per second given sufficient logs. Meaning I now need 10 processors to hit my target - large material cost just to make them (including 200 raw wood) and 1.5MW to run them.
To feed them it'll take 10 logs per 8 seconds = 1.25 logs per second. At 80s per log, I'm going to need 1.25 x 80 = 100 nurseries to supply the logs. Building those takes another 5000 raw wood, 15,000 iron, 5000 copper etc and will take nearly 13MW of power to run.

And that's JUST for a small research setup. You're planning on using wood more through your mod so this is simply not going to work. I know you want people to have to build arrays of structures to scale production but you really need to run the numbers and make them fit for purpose. If you're planning multiple processes needing wood or wood products then the buildings need to be able to make that amount per second in a reasonable area. Starting science needs to be doable (sure not super fast) but feed 1 lab with 1 building each of the types necessary in order to get going.

So, whats your suggestion? Keep in mind it isnt to be an easy game. You can also use dirty water and carbon dioxide to genetate logs more fast right in coal processing 01 technology.

pyanodon wrote: So, whats your suggestion? Keep in mind it isnt to be an easy game. You can also use dirty water and carbon dioxide to genetate logs more fast right in coal processing 01 technology.

There's a difference between hard and mind numbingly tedious - seablock for example, that was so boring people used it as a screensaver. Just making things take massive amounts of time is guaranteed to make people either stop using the mod or add bobs and use it's greenhouse (for example). The initial use of the buildings as people get started needs to be much faster or they'll lose interest. Like I said, 1 of each building needs to be effective enough to see it work. Remove the module slots or at least half of them or the buildings will be too fast later on. Initially though no-one has modules and that's where the machine time matters most.

You're looking at using wood or wood products a fair bit so people need to be able to cover it without going to insane lengths. Concrete numbers? Cut what you currently have in half and it's still nearly 37s per pack - too high. You either need to double the log output on top or cut the times in half again. Then you'd be around 18.5s per pack - still very high but short enough for people to actually see things working and not just give up.

The faster tech is in coal processing 2 from what I could see which means green tech as well.