Factorio Forums

Posted: **Thu Jul 28, 2016 12:52 am**

@Mooncat, thanks for optimizing. I'll try out later and see if it has improved for me too :>

Also, I agree with siggboy. Good suggestions all of them. Though I didn't know item sources werem't ableto create filled oil barrels. They are an item like any other, right? So why would they not work with the item source?

Posted: **Thu Jul 28, 2016 2:34 am**

Qon wrote:Also, I agree with siggboy. Good suggestions all of them. Though I didn't know item sources werem't ableto create filled oil barrels. They are an item like any other, right? So why would they not work with the item source?

Good catch, they in fact can create oil barrels. So scratch that, then

.

The main problem with the item source is that I cannot pull directly from it. So if I want to create a chest with stuff I have to put an item source next to it.

Same with the item void: I cannot use it as a trash can, I need to combine it with a chest.

That's why I'd like to have magic chests (= item source chest) and void chests.

Posted: **Thu Jul 28, 2016 2:51 am**

Awesome changes as usual! Thanks for the config option

siggboy wrote:Maybe an entity that can spawn biters and spitters? That could be nice to test defenses. I'm personally not into combat, but I suppose some people might love it.

I could get behind this. being able to create spitters and spawners easily would be awesome.

Posted: **Thu Jul 28, 2016 2:54 am**

siggboy wrote:I still love the mod. I'm not playing any real game anymore because it has become so much fun to play in a 200x200 all concrete box with Creative Mode .

Some stuff that is missing:

Ability to create filled oil barrels directly (the Duplicator works for this, but you need to setup a fluid source + assembler to get at least 1 oil barrel first)

Adjustable power source and power drain, i.e. an entity that can provide any amount of power up to a limit, same for power drain

A magic chest that provides only the items that you want (like the creative provider chest with a filter, maybe also as a normal chest that won't be accessible to robots). This magic chest is probably the thing that I miss most, because right now you always have to combine an item source + normal chest if you want to fill a chest with items. In fact I still use TestMode+Mjollnir a lot to have a chest with stuff in it (maybe auto-refilling, maybe not).

Combinator-related helpers: a digital readout, like Smart display, would be really good. Of course there are separate mods for this but it could be a part of Creative Mode. Combinators that provide a clock, provide a single pulse signal (optionally from an input).

Maybe an entity that can spawn biters and spitters? That could be nice to test defenses. I'm personally not into combat, but I suppose some people might love it.

Some of these ideas you might consider out of scope, just food for thought.

siggboy wrote:
Qon wrote:Also, I agree with siggboy. Good suggestions all of them. Though I didn't know item sources werem't ableto create filled oil barrels. They are an item like any other, right? So why would they not work with the item source?
Good catch, they in fact can create oil barrels. So scratch that, then .

The main problem with the item source is that I cannot pull directly from it. So if I want to create a chest with stuff I have to put an item source next to it.

Same with the item void: I cannot use it as a trash can, I need to combine it with a chest.

That's why I'd like to have magic chests (= item source chest) and void chests.

It is always good to hear someone enjoys the mod.

And also thanks for the suggestions, I am considering each of them.

About the ~~filled oil barrels~~, scratched.

"Adjustable power source and power drain": sounds good. I just checked the API and it seems doable. I may add UI for Energy Source and the 2 Energy Void to adjust their energy output and input flow limit.

"A magic chest that provides only the items that you want": hm... a chest with inventory and also filter slot like Requester Chest but not accessible by robots... Correct me if I am wrong, but I don't think it is doable. But yes, auto-refilling will be the solution for that. (It was the original idea of Duplicator. I can get it back.

)
And since Qon also suggested adding magic chest that is not accessible by robots, I will definitely add this.

"Same with the item void": how about a Logistic Requester Trash?

"Combinator-related helpers": sorry, it is really out of scope. Unless it is something god-like that will break normal gameplay by making it too easy. But the suggested combinators are more like convenient rather than cheating. If I add them in this mod, they will become redundant if they also exist in another non-cheating mod, which is probable to happen. Oh, maybe ask Nexela? I think he is going to make a combinator mod mentioned here.

"An entity that can spawn biters and spitters": sure! It is my plan to also provide military-related things for testing defensive or offensive structures.

Again, thanks for the suggestions. I am always open to any of them. Even ideas that are out of scope may also lead to another that is suitable for this mod.

Qon wrote:@Mooncat, thanks for optimizing. I'll try out later and see if it has improved for me too :>

It is my pleasure.

Posted: **Thu Jul 28, 2016 3:03 am**

Mooncat wrote: "Combinator-related helpers": sorry, it is really out of scope. Unless it is something god-like that will break normal gameplay by making it too easy. But the suggested combinators are more like convenient rather than cheating. If I add them in this mod, they will become redundant if they also exist in another non-cheating mod, which is probable to happen. Oh, maybe ask Nexela? I think he is going to make a combinator mod mentioned here.

Yeah I don't see the need for combinator stuff as lots of other mods offer these kinds of things. Time-Tools mod compliments this one really well for time control as well as smart display. I do have a mod upcoming sometime in the future(tm) that will offer a handful of nice Circuit Related stuff. It is on the back burner until I finish NoTurretCreep (which should be done soon now that I worked out most of the bugs in Autofill).\

*Current list of default mods in my testing/devel environment.
- Creative Mode
- AutoTrash
- AutoFill
- Foreman
- Picker
- Renamer
- Smart Display
- Time-Tools
- Upgrade Planner

Posted: **Thu Jul 28, 2016 3:15 am**

Mooncat wrote:(It was the original idea of Duplicator. I can get it back. )

Alright, it actually never occured to me that the Duplicator will refill chests. But of course it does. I think I finally understand what it's good for

. The item is a bit obscure at first.

But it brings back the point:

We have three typical uses for the item source/void/duplicator: it's putting them next to chests to turn the chests into magic chest source/voids/duplicators. That's why you should consider just adding the respective chests. Endless item source chest. Void chest. Duplicating/auto-refilling chest.

If the endless item source chest need to be a requester chest (accessible by robots), that's fine, it's better than having none at all. It would be OK, too if there's only one filter slot so you can have it only fill with 1 item.

The details are not super important to me right now, just if we have these chests to cover the common cases it would be awesome.

"Same with the item void": how about a Logistic Requester Trash?

Sure, why not. But also add a normal void chest that items can be dropped into which will instantly disappear. To be used as a trash can to get rid of inventory and also to test setups where you just want to void the output.

Especially when I test real setups I cannot put item voids next to the chests because it would ruin the layout or there simply is no space. It would be great if I could just put void chests there that are compatible with steel chests. (Would it be possible to make the "void" function toggleable? Or maybe even triggerable from a circuit? Then I could connect a cable and when I put the "trash it please" signal on it would incinerate the contents.)

"Combinator-related helpers": sorry, it is really out of scope.

That's fine, but a simple digital readout would be great. It's not really an OP item, just a useful helper in so many cases. If you add it, make it dead simple, just like SmartDisplay without any of the fancy. Just so there is something if you don't want or need the real SmartDisplay.

Posted: **Thu Jul 28, 2016 8:49 am**

Mooncat wrote:And since Qon also suggested adding magic chest that is not accessible by robots, I will definitely add this.

Well actually, what I actually requested was a way to provide some items to the network but not all, so that the items I produce aren't available and prioritised before production. But an item source next to a passive provider chest can do this. It's just a bit fiddly to set up when you want all possible buildings and so on provided but not the few things you want to produce yourself. The "provide everything" chests could maybe have a sibling that didn't spawn anything you have an assembler set with a recipe to produce that item. That would be great. Then I can build a factory and everything except the things I want to produce myself will automatically be provided. And if I start producing something else then that provider chest would stop providing that item without even being reconfigured.

But magic chests not available by robot network are also useful in some setups.

Posted: **Thu Jul 28, 2016 7:13 pm**

siggboy wrote:Alright, it actually never occured to me that the Duplicator will refill chests.

I meant the original idea of Duplicator was actually an auto-refill chest, and also a auto-refill pipe. But I somehow combined them together and add the ability to also interact with transport belts. So Duplicator was created. I can get the auto-refill chest back as another entity, with both robot- and non-robot-accessible versions.

Yes, the trash will be actually a chest. It will have slots to put items inside and send them to void.

Would it be possible to make the "void" function toggleable? Or maybe even triggerable from a circuit?

The Item Source, Item Void and Duplicator are already toggleable with circuit signals. Like inserters, if they are connected with wire and their operation mode is set to Enable/Disable, they will work only when the condition is fullfilled. If no condition is set, they will never work.

If you add it, make it dead simple, just like SmartDisplay without any of the fancy.

How about Nixie Tubes? It can show the numbers when a tube is connected with wire. Put a row of Nixie Tubes, wire the right most one and set the condition on it (to tell them what number you want), then you are good to go. It is simple to use and may suit your requirement.

Qon wrote:Well actually, what I actually requested was a way to provide some items to the network but not all, so that the items I produce aren't available and prioritised before production.

Oh, sorry for misunderstanding it. So you are basically looking for a chest that originally provides you all the things, then you can set which items to filter out. Am I right? It may be a little bit tricky, but I have an idea in my mind. It will require a custom UI for that.

Posted: **Thu Jul 28, 2016 10:44 pm**

Mooncat wrote:
Qon wrote:Well actually, what I actually requested was a way to provide some items to the network but not all, so that the items I produce aren't available and prioritised before production.
Oh, sorry for misunderstanding it. So you are basically looking for a chest that originally provides you all the things, then you can set which items to filter out. Am I right? It may be a little bit tricky, but I have an idea in my mind. It will require a custom UI for that.

Yes, exactly.

Posted: **Fri Jul 29, 2016 12:26 am**

Mooncat wrote:The Item Source, Item Void and Duplicator are already toggleable with circuit signals. Like inserters, if they are connected with wire and their operation mode is set to Enable/Disable, they will work only when the condition is fullfilled. If no condition is set, they will never work.

Yes, but is that also possible for the void chests and magic chests? It would be minor, but useful, because then I could use magic void chests instead of normal chests in a test setup, e.g. an unloader. And when I'm finished testing or want a fresh run, I could simply void all the chests in the buffer by triggering a signal. In the other case I'd have to temporarily replace the buffer chests with void chests and then back.

How about Nixie Tubes? It can show the numbers when a tube is connected with wire.

Yeah I know, I use that and Smart Display. But something like Smart Display Light (without the config) could be an addition to Creative Mode.

Posted: **Fri Jul 29, 2016 10:32 am**

siggboy wrote:Yeah I know, I use that and Smart Display. But something like Smart Display Light (without the config) could be an addition to Creative Mode.

Smart Display works well on it's own though as a separate mod. It doesn't have anything else in it. Why can't people who need both just get both? Mooncat is probably right on this one. Seems a bit out of scope. I like small mods that do one thing and do it well instead of having several mods that try to do everything and thus overlap in functionality but drop the quality. And then you have multiple items that do the same thing (that you maybe don't even want at all) and all do it badly. Quality > quantity.

Posted: **Sat Jul 30, 2016 5:54 pm**

Bugs.

The item and fluid sources don't work if ghost placed with instant blueprint mod. Since other assembler type entities do work I would say this seems like CM does something wrong.
If you chose "speed up my character" from the options list and then enter and exit a vehicle you lose you speed.

Posted: **Sat Jul 30, 2016 10:51 pm**

I've never seen a mod use this much before o:

Excessive

I thought 3.5 that I got with treefarm was extreme, and I usually just uninstall most mods that go above 0.3. CM uses 22ms?!
I can't just skip this mod though since it's so good and I need it for testing. But it might need another optimization step or two.

I have a fairly big base that I'm testing so I do expect some UPS loss. But for just filling some chests with materials (just setting a number really, should cost 0 cpu time) it's way too much.

CM v0.1.1

Posted: **Sat Jul 30, 2016 11:24 pm**

Qon wrote:I have a fairly big base that I'm testing so I do expect some UPS loss. But for just filling some chests with materials (just setting a number really, should cost 0 cpu time) it's way too much.

Yes it's too much. I think the item source and voids are implemented as very fast inserters, that would explain why they take so much CPU time.

Probably we need the magic chests, that could actually just add their own content directly, and then the item source/void could be modded loaders (or retain their current implementation of being modded inserters (?).

Posted: **Sun Jul 31, 2016 4:41 pm**

siggboy wrote:Yeah I know, I use that and Smart Display. But something like Smart Display Light (without the config) could be an addition to Creative Mode.

Sorry. In that case, I think you better ask binbinhfr for making a light version. Tell him what you what. Or have you tried that?

Qon wrote:Bugs.
The item and fluid sources don't work if ghost placed with instant blueprint mod. Since other assembler type entities do work I would say this seems like CM does something wrong.

Confirmed. Because Instant Blueprint used entity.revive() to instantly build the entities, they are not registered and hence are not controlled by our mod. Unfortunately, I can't see any API I can use to know when an entity is revived. So we may need to wait until it is implemented into Factorio.
And I do have plan to add the same functionality of instant blueprint into our mod. So in case Factorio doesn't add the event (mostly due to performance wise reason), we can still play with it.
Edit: oh, I saw you told its author about this problem. Yes, it will also help if he can, for example, raise events when any entity is revived / destroyed. We will need to keep an eye on it so we can fix the issue ASAP.

If you chose "speed up my character" from the options list and then enter and exit a vehicle you lose you speed.

I can't reproduce this. Maybe another mod is resetting the character's running speed modifier when you leave a vehicle? Give me the mod list so I can check.

In v0.2.0 I will make a GUI to set speed modifier (and other cheats) like Test Mode, so in case it is reset to normal speed, you can set it back in runtime.

I've never seen a mod use this much before o: ...

Holy.... 180 Item Source and Void in total.

I...I....I..... may be able to further improve the performance...
but let's see whether the new features can help you first.

...

By the way, are your Item Source / Void connecting some chests? I will take a quick look on the code.

Posted: **Sun Jul 31, 2016 5:04 pm**

Mooncat wrote:
I've never seen a mod use this much before o: ...
Holy.... 180 Item Source and Void in total.
I...I....I..... may be able to further improve the performance...
but let's see whether the new features can help you first. ...

By the way, are your Item Source / Void connecting some chests? I will take a quick look on the code.

They are connected to chests, yes. All of them. 180 is not even that many. I had about 8k inserters at the same time and they didn't cause such big UPS problems.

Mooncat wrote:
If you chose "speed up my character" from the options list and then enter and exit a vehicle you lose you speed.
I can't reproduce this. Maybe another mod is resetting the character's running speed modifier when you leave a vehicle? Give me the mod list so I can check.
In v0.2.0 I will make a GUI to set speed modifier (and other cheats) like Test Mode, so in case it is reset to normal speed, you can set it back in runtime.

I don't think you want to know which mods I use.
I'll post it anyways because I got such a good reaction from my item source amount. And this is only the mods I use in 0.13 (had to delete a lot of 0.12 mods) and only the ones I use for this save.

Code: Select all

{
    "mods": [
        {
            "name": "base",
            "enabled": "true"
        },
        {
            "name": "00 Ghost Walking",
            "enabled": "true"
        },
        {
            "name": "20x20ArmorMK2",
            "enabled": "true"
        },
        {
            "name": "AfraidOfTheDark",
            "enabled": "true"
        },
        {
            "name": "air-filtering",
            "enabled": "false"
        },
        {
            "name": "Aircraft",
            "enabled": "false"
        },
        {
            "name": "alien-artifact-loot",
            "enabled": "false"
        },
        {
            "name": "AlienEggs",
            "enabled": "true"
        },
        {
            "name": "Alien Oil",
            "enabled": "false"
        },
        {
            "name": "AquiferDrill",
            "enabled": "false"
        },
        {
            "name": "artifact-hatch",
            "enabled": "false"
        },
        {
            "name": "ArtificialOilProduction",
            "enabled": "false"
        },
        {
            "name": "assembler-light",
            "enabled": "false"
        },
        {
            "name": "AutoTrash",
            "enabled": "true"
        },
        {
            "name": "Auto_Deploy_Destroyers",
            "enabled": "true"
        },
        {
            "name": "bad-chest",
            "enabled": "false"
        },
        {
            "name": "beltplanner",
            "enabled": "true"
        },
        {
            "name": "Bergius_Process",
            "enabled": "true"
        },
        {
            "name": "BetterIcons",
            "enabled": "true"
        },
        {
            "name": "BigWoodenPowerPole",
            "enabled": "false"
        },
        {
            "name": "Bio_Farm",
            "enabled": "false"
        },
        {
            "name": "blueprint-string",
            "enabled": "true"
        },
        {
            "name": "bobgreenhouse",
            "enabled": "true"
        },
        {
            "name": "boblibrary",
            "enabled": "true"
        },
        {
            "name": "Bombard_bot",
            "enabled": "false"
        },
        {
            "name": "Bottleneck",
            "enabled": "false"
        },
        {
            "name": "burner_assembly_machine",
            "enabled": "false"
        },
        {
            "name": "CargoRocket",
            "enabled": "true"
        },
        {
            "name": "concrete1k",
            "enabled": "false"
        },
        {
            "name": "coordinates",
            "enabled": "false"
        },
        {
            "name": "CopySettingsTool",
            "enabled": "true"
        },
        {
            "name": "creative-mode",
            "enabled": "true"
        },
        {
            "name": "eco-trees",
            "enabled": "false"
        },
        {
            "name": "EfficienSee",
            "enabled": "true"
        },
        {
            "name": "Enhanced_Map_Colors",
            "enabled": "true"
        },
        {
            "name": "EternalBlueprints",
            "enabled": "false"
        },
        {
            "name": "Expanded_Robot_Tech",
            "enabled": "false"
        },
        {
            "name": "FactorioMaps",
            "enabled": "false"
        },
        {
            "name": "Factorissimo",
            "enabled": "true"
        },
        {
            "name": "FARL",
            "enabled": "true"
        },
        {
            "name": "Fastforward-Start",
            "enabled": "true"
        },
        {
            "name": "filtered-deconstruction-planner",
            "enabled": "true"
        },
        {
            "name": "flatland",
            "enabled": "false"
        },
        {
            "name": "Flow Control",
            "enabled": "true"
        },
        {
            "name": "fluid-barrel",
            "enabled": "true"
        },
        {
            "name": "Foreman",
            "enabled": "true"
        },
        {
            "name": "fupower",
            "enabled": "true"
        },
        {
            "name": "Gandalf",
            "enabled": "false"
        },
        {
            "name": "Honk",
            "enabled": "true"
        },
        {
            "name": "improvedbeacons",
            "enabled": "false"
        },
        {
            "name": "Improve_Move",
            "enabled": "true"
        },
        {
            "name": "InitialScan",
            "enabled": "true"
        },
        {
            "name": "instant-blueprint",
            "enabled": "false"
        },
        {
            "name": "ItemCount",
            "enabled": "true"
        },
        {
            "name": "KBlueprints",
            "enabled": "true"
        },
        {
            "name": "Landfill",
            "enabled": "false"
        },
        {
            "name": "Larger Inventory",
            "enabled": "true"
        },
        {
            "name": "Laser_Beam_Turret",
            "enabled": "false"
        },
        {
            "name": "launch-control",
            "enabled": "false"
        },
        {
            "name": "logistic-combinators",
            "enabled": "false"
        },
        {
            "name": "MiningTools",
            "enabled": "true"
        },
        {
            "name": "mod-iconizer",
            "enabled": "false"
        },
        {
            "name": "ModuleInserter",
            "enabled": "true"
        },
        {
            "name": "nightvision",
            "enabled": "false"
        },
        {
            "name": "nixie-tubes",
            "enabled": "false"
        },
        {
            "name": "Orbital Ion Cannon",
            "enabled": "false"
        },
        {
            "name": "Ore Expansion",
            "enabled": "false"
        },
        {
            "name": "OverMods",
            "enabled": "false"
        },
        {
            "name": "PeppeBotStart",
            "enabled": "true"
        },
        {
            "name": "picker",
            "enabled": "true"
        },
        {
            "name": "Pipe-Manager",
            "enabled": "false"
        },
        {
            "name": "PipeEverything",
            "enabled": "false"
        },
        {
            "name": "Plasma Shotgun Shells",
            "enabled": "true"
        },
        {
            "name": "Powered_Entities",
            "enabled": "false"
        },
        {
            "name": "prospect",
            "enabled": "false"
        },
        {
            "name": "RailTanker",
            "enabled": "false"
        },
        {
            "name": "recursive-blueprints",
            "enabled": "true"
        },
        {
            "name": "Red Alerts",
            "enabled": "false"
        },
        {
            "name": "research-queue",
            "enabled": "true"
        },
        {
            "name": "Research_Savr",
            "enabled": "true"
        },
        {
            "name": "RoboCharge",
            "enabled": "false"
        },
        {
            "name": "robotarmy",
            "enabled": "true"
        },
        {
            "name": "robotMiningSite",
            "enabled": "false"
        },
        {
            "name": "rso-mod",
            "enabled": "false"
        },
        {
            "name": "SatelliteRadar",
            "enabled": "true"
        },
        {
            "name": "Satellite Uplink Station",
            "enabled": "true"
        },
        {
            "name": "scarynights",
            "enabled": "false"
        },
        {
            "name": "ScoreExtended",
            "enabled": "true"
        },
        {
            "name": "searching-flashlight",
            "enabled": "false"
        },
        {
            "name": "SimpleMover",
            "enabled": "false"
        },
        {
            "name": "SmartDisplay",
            "enabled": "true"
        },
        {
            "name": "SmartSplitters",
            "enabled": "false"
        },
        {
            "name": "SmartTrains",
            "enabled": "false"
        },
        {
            "name": "specialized_refineries",
            "enabled": "false"
        },
        {
            "name": "Squeak Through",
            "enabled": "true"
        },
        {
            "name": "STRS",
            "enabled": "false"
        },
        {
            "name": "Subsurface",
            "enabled": "false"
        },
        {
            "name": "Swarm",
            "enabled": "false"
        },
        {
            "name": "Tape Measure",
            "enabled": "true"
        },
        {
            "name": "Terraforming",
            "enabled": "false"
        },
        {
            "name": "test-mode",
            "enabled": "false"
        },
        {
            "name": "TheFatController",
            "enabled": "false"
        },
        {
            "name": "TimeTools",
            "enabled": "false"
        },
        {
            "name": "toy-box",
            "enabled": "false"
        },
        {
            "name": "true-long-reach",
            "enabled": "true"
        },
        {
            "name": "upgrade-planner",
            "enabled": "true"
        },
        {
            "name": "Upgrade_Builder_Planner",
            "enabled": "true"
        },
        {
            "name": "UraniumPower",
            "enabled": "true"
        },
        {
            "name": "usefulSpace",
            "enabled": "true"
        },
        {
            "name": "VehicleSnap",
            "enabled": "false"
        },
        {
            "name": "Visible_Bots",
            "enabled": "false"
        },
        {
            "name": "Warehousing",
            "enabled": "false"
        },
        {
            "name": "Waterfill",
            "enabled": "true"
        },
        {
            "name": "WaterWell",
            "enabled": "true"
        },
        {
            "name": "YARM",
            "enabled": "true"
        }
    ]
}

Posted: **Sun Jul 31, 2016 5:14 pm**

Qon wrote:They are connected to chests, yes. All of them. 180 is not even that many. I had about 8k inserters at the same time and they didn't cause such big UPS problems.

Don't compare modded entities with the native ones. Their mechanism is implemented in C++. So they should be faster.

I guess...

I will take a look on the mods. Some of them are suspicious.

Posted: **Sun Jul 31, 2016 5:33 pm**

Can you disable Improve Move and try again? I haven't checked its code but according to its descriptions, it overwrites the character running speed. If so, it must be the cause of that bug.
Edit: yes, it does overwrite character running speed modifier. In my simple test game, it resets my running speed when I am just crafting the vehicle.

Unfortunately, I can't provide a fix at this moment, since I don't have record on whether you have enabled fast running speed or not. And I don't think recording it and overwriting the speed is a good solution, because it will increase incompatibility to other mods just like Improve Move. So, the current solution is to disable it when testing, and wait for the new GUI in v0.2.0. Sorry for your inconvenience.

Posted: **Sun Jul 31, 2016 6:52 pm**

Disabled it, now I can enter vehicles. Thanks. I should have been able to figure that one out by myself...

It didn't seem to work with the speeds I'm running at anyways. I probably run at 1000 km/h and I'm still too slow, takes forever with my UPS and the size of my base to get around q:

Posted: **Mon Aug 01, 2016 2:23 am**

Hi, i have a suggestion: the passive and active void energy should have a setting for configure their drain capacity; that will be useful for know exactly the point when the "steam+storage tanks" setup get its limits.

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[MOD 0.15.29+] Creative Mode 0.3.12 - Infinite resources

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