Re: Rocket silo logistic is just broken
Posted: Sun Nov 10, 2024 12:52 am
Of course. It's a partial workaround. You would not have to use that silo, so the only cost is constructing it.
Of course. It's a partial workaround. You would not have to use that silo, so the only cost is constructing it.
The max rocket payload for constant combinator is 50, if you have several stacks of them it means you launched several rockets, the game won't send that many for construction onlyKhazul wrote: Sat Nov 09, 2024 3:42 pm Why cant it simply request what is actually needed rather than filling up every rocket to max capacity of the item?
The silo where you read requests has no content so that isn't an issue. You read requests from silo A and then insert that into silo B where you read content.
Maybe this thread could be moved to general discussion or something. It's a list of problems, a rant, and was never a suggestion for a solution. As more problems crystalize maybe other solutions can be spun off into additional suggestions.
This is not broken and is actually quite good design imo, because you get access to requester chests after your first rocket launch, most players have inserters and belts placing blue circuits LD and fuel in their silo and it would contaminate all their further launch if those were inserted as cargo. Unless they do some circuits shenanigans , like for space exploration which constitute a barrer for many players.mrvn wrote: Mon Nov 11, 2024 7:31 am Another thing broken: You can not send Processing unit (blue card), Low Density Structure or Rocket Fuel into space with inserters and circuit logic. Those three things always go into the build slots of the silo. You can send those with automation but then it takes a full rocket and logistic bots.
It's still broken. Just might be unfixable as is.mmmPI wrote: Mon Nov 11, 2024 9:43 amThis is not broken and is actually quite good design imo, because you get access to requester chests after your first rocket launch, most players have inserters and belts placing blue circuits LD and fuel in their silo and it would contaminate all their further launch if those were inserted as cargo. Unless they do some circuits shenanigans , like for space exploration which constitute a barrer for many players.mrvn wrote: Mon Nov 11, 2024 7:31 am Another thing broken: You can not send Processing unit (blue card), Low Density Structure or Rocket Fuel into space with inserters and circuit logic. Those three things always go into the build slots of the silo. You can send those with automation but then it takes a full rocket and logistic bots.
Brilliant ! maybe this dicussion should go to gameplay help after, i'm sure many other players have had to face the same kind of frustration when learning the new mechanic but do not dare to share the embarassing stories.mrvn wrote: Mon Nov 11, 2024 12:26 pm Note: I later realized that recycling and the heavy oil oceans on Fulgora gives you everything for the rocket silo and rocket so you only need to bring some assemblers, chemical plants, an offshore pump, pipes and inserters and you have the silo and rocket in no time.
1) There is a way to send only 4 laser turrets. Make a request on platform for 0..infinite, custom minimum 4. Problem is though that you'll need to make such a request for every item you use in construction, but only those ones that are in very low quantity on planet. It is also allowed to send rockets that are half empty, wether you care about rocket cost or not.mrvn wrote: Wed Oct 30, 2024 12:47 am There are a bunch of things that simply don't work with the rocket silo for automating sending items to space.
The only thing that actually sort of works is clicking the automatic requests box. Even that has 3 big flaws:
1) The biggest flaw in this is that it always sends a full rocket of the thing. Sending 50 laser turrets when only 4 are needed is a big waste. There is no way to send exact counts for construction work. Or 10 cargo hub extensions when all you need is 1.
2) If you do not have 1 rocket full of the item available in the logistic network the spaceship hub never requests it. That means you can not produce the items on demand as needed. I do not need 10 cargo hug extensions sitting around in a provider chest.
3) There is no checkmark for the rocket silo to request form buffer chests. But the contents of buffer chests still counts for determining if enough items are available. So the rocket silo will request 50 laser turrets but 40 of them are in a buffer chest. The silo is then stuck with 10 and never gets the remaining 40.
So if the automatic fails lets turn to manually filling the rocket. Oh where do I start:
1) You can read out the requests and the contents. But not at the same time. So you have no idea how much of what is requested is already loaded.
2) All the requests of all the space platforms are merged. You have no idea which platform requests what.
3) There is no way to say to which platform to send the rocket or when to send it. There seems to be some automatic to send the rocket when it is full, but only when it is filled by a single item to capacity. Any mixture seems to prevent launch. Maybe because with a mixture have the content could be for platform A and the rest for platform B.
4) When a rocket is launched the silo still requests the same items. There is no way to detect a rocket in transit, no way to detect a rocket launch and use ones own timer till it lands or something. Why isn't the hub subtracting the rocket content from the request while in transit? That would be just like provider chests subtracking the "picking up" items from their content.
5) There is no option to send items to the trash slots. I want the option to only keep requested items in the rocket silo. That way excess items in the hands of inserters on the last load could be expelled.
So not only do I have to send 10 hub cargo extensions to launch the rocket. I then send 10 more because because it requests another 10 until the rocket has landed. Now the hub has 19 unused cargo extensions.
You can't automate this and I have to try what the behavior of the platform then is. Overall the point of sending just 4 laser turrets is only worth it when you can add the 20 belts, 3 chemical plants and 10 inserters to the same rocket. Otherwise the cost of the rocket exceeds most payloads.Zaflis wrote: Mon Nov 11, 2024 7:39 pm 1) There is a way to send only 4 laser turrets. Make a request on platform for 0..infinite, custom minimum 4. Problem is though that you'll need to make such a request for every item you use in construction, but only those ones that are in very low quantity on planet. It is also allowed to send rockets that are half empty, wether you care about rocket cost or not.
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5) Fair suggestion, but also uses are only the very advanced circuits. I still don't see a need to circuit rocket silos at early-, mid- or even post-endgame.
I also recommend building bigger if rocket deliveries feel too expensive. It doesn't take long time to copy 1 large platform into a new platform from scratch, using only automated bot deliveries with full stacks. Productivity modules in silos, some speed beacons next to, send perhaps combinators manually by hand.
That is the thing right, factorio always allowed one to build in any "efficience" level, regardless of if it is super op, or insanely terrible.mrvn wrote: Tue Nov 12, 2024 7:32 am As for sending half empty rockets you probably want to only do that after some delay and when 2 rockets are ready or something. It would be horrible inefficient if the game sends a rocket when you place your first solar cell in space and then you have to wait 10 minutes for a second rocket for everything you build seconds later. You definetly don't want a rocket with 4 laser turrets only when there is also a request for other stuff.
I was specifically talking about automatic requests.mrvn wrote: Tue Nov 12, 2024 7:32 am You can't automate this and I have to try what the behavior of the platform then is. Overall the point of sending just 4 laser turrets is only worth it when you can add the 20 belts, 3 chemical plants and 10 inserters to the same rocket. Otherwise the cost of the rocket exceeds most payloads.
Please try it your self as well, make the ""custom minimum" set by logicZaflis wrote: Tue Nov 12, 2024 2:42 pmI was specifically talking about automatic requests.mrvn wrote: Tue Nov 12, 2024 7:32 am You can't automate this and I have to try what the behavior of the platform then is. Overall the point of sending just 4 laser turrets is only worth it when you can add the 20 belts, 3 chemical plants and 10 inserters to the same rocket. Otherwise the cost of the rocket exceeds most payloads.
Please try it yourself, when you are making a new request on platform in that same dialog at the bottom is the "custom minimum" section.
As for efficiency, im not sure what it sends per rocket but it might fit some other goods along with the 4 lasers if platform needs?
I have done it several times, i don't need to set rocket silos to non-automatic mode to send only tiny amounts of high quality turrets over.Sworn wrote: Wed Nov 13, 2024 2:00 am Please try it your self as well, make the ""custom minimum" set by logic
where is that being done via logic? That is the thing, it is just not possible, what you are saying is not using logic.Zaflis wrote: Wed Nov 13, 2024 2:16 am I have done it several times, i don't need to set rocket silos to non-automatic mode to send only tiny amounts of high quality turrets over.
Just make a request from the planet you are on (Nauvis?), ask for 0 minimum and infinite max items, then set custom minimum send threshold to like 1. Then build that quality turret on platform, it will auto-request 1 from the planet.
The question is what else it puts in the rocket. I haven't had time to try the custom minimum myself yet but my understanding of that feature was that it then sends a half empty rocket. Not that it combines requests for multiple things to fill a rocket. And for most things the cost of the rocket exceeds the cost of the items. It's the rockets you want to primarily safe.Zaflis wrote: Wed Nov 13, 2024 2:16 amI have done it several times, i don't need to set rocket silos to non-automatic mode to send only tiny amounts of high quality turrets over.Sworn wrote: Wed Nov 13, 2024 2:00 am Please try it your self as well, make the ""custom minimum" set by logic
Just make a request from the planet you are on (Nauvis?), ask for 0 minimum and infinite max items, then set custom minimum send threshold to like 1. Then build that quality turret on platform, it will auto-request 1 from the planet.
By logic you mean setting platform requests by circuit? I never tried something like that and don't think it's possible.
Correct. I spent quite some time trying different things. For example I made requests from a platform using custom minimums for two different items, that added up to exactly one rocket load. Then I used logic to load exactly that many of each item into the silo. The first thing that happened is that it launched as soon as one request could be filled, with a half-empty rocket, no matter how closely I tried to synchronize the inserters to fill both items at the same time.mrvn wrote: Wed Nov 13, 2024 7:37 pm The question is what else it puts in the rocket. I haven't had time to try the custom minimum myself yet but my understanding of that feature was that it then sends a half empty rocket. Not that it combines requests for multiple things to fill a rocket.
Yap, that is quite it, we just lack the fine control over it, a "launch rocket" signal would work, now to which platform should it be sent?Tinyboss wrote: Wed Nov 13, 2024 8:38 pm There does not appear to be any means whatsoever of launching a rocket with more than one item type, except manually in the silo UI by clicking the "deliver" button.
from what the map editor exposes, it seems to be a string id, just like of other surfaces have a string id, but yea, that would be nice.Sworn wrote: Thu Nov 14, 2024 12:50 pmYap, that is quite it, we just lack the fine control over it, a "launch rocket" signal would work, now to which platform should it be sent?Tinyboss wrote: Wed Nov 13, 2024 8:38 pm There does not appear to be any means whatsoever of launching a rocket with more than one item type, except manually in the silo UI by clicking the "deliver" button.
I would say, spaceships probably have an ID just like trains have, if one is trying to launch the rocket with signals, give us the ability to read spaceships ids (if they exists), and it would be solved, with a target station id.