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Re: Artillery needs to be moved back to Nauvis
Posted: Fri Dec 13, 2024 4:42 pm
by CyberCider
Illiander42 wrote: Fri Dec 13, 2024 3:39 pm
Cliff explosives and artillery being on the same planet does make it a complete no-brainer for where to go first though.
Well, maybe for you. For me, personally, the same is true but for spidertrons. I simply have to go Gleba first, because I can’t live without my queued movements and remote controlled units. Meanwhile, I’ve heard plenty of people say that the mech armor’s jetpack is their holy grail, and their reason to rush Fulgora first instead. The same could be said about the biolab, foundry and EMP. How many resources saved, how much redesigning required, and at what point in the game? I think the “choose your own path” design of Space Age is really well executed. The Vulcanus>Fulgora>Gleba path is super overrated, most other configurations are just as valid.
Re: Artillery needs to be moved back to Nauvis
Posted: Fri Dec 13, 2024 4:47 pm
by mako00
Illiander42 wrote: Fri Dec 13, 2024 1:19 am
Is this limit quite high? Yes. But it's there. And one thing I know about Factorio is that we
always go bigger.
You will be hitting UPS limits long before that.
But its a game - games provide arbitrary challenges. This one of them. If you manage to hit this limit on a real playthrough, congratulations to you, you won factorio!
Re: Artillery needs to be moved back to Nauvis
Posted: Fri Dec 13, 2024 8:52 pm
by Hares
This mod should be called either " Age" ("Space Age" without "Space") or "SpaceAge" ("Space Age" without space)
Re: Artillery needs to be moved back to Nauvis
Posted: Fri Dec 13, 2024 8:53 pm
by BraveCaperCat
Maybe cliff explosives could also be moved back to nauvis!
Re: Artillery needs to be moved back to Nauvis
Posted: Fri Dec 13, 2024 9:00 pm
by Hares
Illiander42 wrote: Fri Dec 13, 2024 3:39 pm
Cliff explosives and artillery being on the same planet does make it a complete no-brainer for where to go first though.
I went Fulgora 1st for recycler, quality modules, EM plants, power armor, and teslagun. Never regretted this decision. My teslaguns made pentapods a joke, and EM plants allowed me builing module quality grinding facilities.
Re: Artillery needs to be moved back to Nauvis
Posted: Sat Dec 14, 2024 8:22 am
by Koub
Hares wrote: Fri Dec 13, 2024 8:52 pm
This mod should be called either " Age" ("Space Age" without "Space") or "SpaceAge" ("Space Age" without space)
Shouldn't have been drinking my tea while reading this. Guess I'll have some cleaning to do
.
Sorry for the off topic
Re: Artillery needs to be moved back to Nauvis
Posted: Sat Dec 14, 2024 6:11 pm
by r3xk3nnw4y
Khazul wrote: Fri Dec 13, 2024 1:52 pm
IsaacOscar wrote: Fri Dec 13, 2024 1:11 pm
mouzy wrote: Fri Dec 13, 2024 1:04 pm
Khazul wrote: Fri Dec 13, 2024 12:05 pm
I get the impression there are broadly two types of players - those who like to progress ASAP into a well organised approach to build that scales and those who play very adhoc. The latter probably care nothing about the changes to artillery and cliff explosives. The former now might go so far as to utterly f***** hate it because it just completely screws them over at a game stage where they are used to having it and getting organized and starting to scale up. Ad-hoc players just wont care and will argue it is a great and logical change.
That's definitely true, but that's why cliffs are optional. For players who like to be able to build extremely organized right from the beginning cliffs will just always be an annoyance and there's no reason they should ever need to exist, so they can be fully turned off.
Cliffs are absolutely essential for a fun and beautiful factorio experience! The only reason for them to be optional is because of all the players who winned when they were added... (although having customisable map gen settings is very common for games, but giving an in game GUI to modify recipes and technologies would be ridiculous...)
I dont mind clearing cliffs etc - I only mind it when it delayed into late mid game way past the time it was needed and forces you build in a way you dont like to build at that game stage. Kind of same with artillery (to keep this on topic - my bad, but the two kind of go together in terms of impact on mid game). Delaying artillery to essentially post Vulcanus is not breaking in the same way, but I do think it does drag out a game stage on Nauvis for way longer than it should be dragged out for a clean feeling progression. I can semi understand it if Artillery can be used vs demolisher, but I assume as they are not static, it cannot be except manually. I guess that it what they wanted, ie force people to get up close and personal with demolishers. I am fine with that, but not fine with the impact on Nauvis as by that stage on Nauvis you may be dealing with mass nests which take a long time to clear with even a tank and/or turret pushes etc.
I think artillery would have been better had they come up with some atmospheric excuse to justify that basic Nauvis artillery didnt work on Vulcanus without further research if Demolishers are the reason for this. Maybe just the manual control of it is delayed to Vulcanus research so you couldnt manually target Demolishers, but you could still mass clear nearby nests for expansion back on Nauvis. Also remember that when you do start clearing nests with artillery, your walls better be up to the resulting mass backlash from angry homeless biters...
What if we added a [Simple artillery shells] recipe that uses steel instead of tungsten and something other than calcite, so that it can be produced on nauvis, these shells are notably weaker and have a shorter range(still enough to outrange a behemoth worms) than their traditional counterparts and can't be used in vulcanus due to atmospheric conditions, the artillery research can still be located on vulcanus as well, similar to how coal liquidification got moved over there as well.
Re: Artillery needs to be moved back to Nauvis
Posted: Sat Dec 14, 2024 6:32 pm
by BraveCaperCat
I made a mod!
It fixes the issue mentioned in this discussion (it also moves back cliff explosives, but that can be turned off if unwanted)
Re: Artillery needs to be moved back to Nauvis
Posted: Sat Dec 14, 2024 6:40 pm
by mooklepticon
BraveCaperCat wrote: Sat Dec 14, 2024 6:32 pm
I made a mod!
It fixes the issue mentioned in this discussion (it also moves back cliff explosives, but that can be turned off if unwanted)
Exactly what I wanted. Thanks.
Re: Artillery needs to be moved back to Nauvis
Posted: Sat Dec 14, 2024 8:28 pm
by r3xk3nnw4y
BraveCaperCat wrote: Sat Dec 14, 2024 6:32 pm
I made a mod!
It fixes the issue mentioned in this discussion (it also moves back cliff explosives, but that can be turned off if unwanted)
I'm afk now or I'd investigate further directly, but when you say moves artillery back to nauvis do you mean that the crafting recipes no longer require vulcanus exclusive resources (tungstun) or that the research is unlocked on nauvis?
Re: Artillery needs to be moved back to Nauvis
Posted: Sat Dec 14, 2024 8:33 pm
by BraveCaperCat
r3xk3nnw4y wrote: Sat Dec 14, 2024 8:28 pm
BraveCaperCat wrote: Sat Dec 14, 2024 6:32 pm
I made a mod!
It fixes the issue mentioned in this discussion (it also moves back cliff explosives, but that can be turned off if unwanted)
I'm afk now or I'd investigate further directly, but when you say moves artillery back to nauvis do you mean that the crafting recipes no longer require vulcanus exclusive resources (tungstun) or that the research is unlocked on nauvis?
Both.
Oh no, I forgot about artillery turrets and artillery wagons...
*Patch Time*
Re: Artillery needs to be moved back to Nauvis
Posted: Sat Dec 14, 2024 9:23 pm
by BraveCaperCat
BraveCaperCat wrote: Sat Dec 14, 2024 8:33 pm
r3xk3nnw4y wrote: Sat Dec 14, 2024 8:28 pm
BraveCaperCat wrote: Sat Dec 14, 2024 6:32 pm
I made a mod!
It fixes the issue mentioned in this discussion (it also moves back cliff explosives, but that can be turned off if unwanted)
I'm afk now or I'd investigate further directly, but when you say moves artillery back to nauvis do you mean that the crafting recipes no longer require vulcanus exclusive resources (tungstun) or that the research is unlocked on nauvis?
Both.
Oh no, I forgot about artillery turrets and artillery wagons...
*Patch Time*
Patch complete, the mod now has all intended features.
Re: Artillery needs to be moved back to Nauvis
Posted: Mon Dec 16, 2024 6:21 pm
by Tinyboss
Hares wrote: Fri Dec 13, 2024 8:52 pm
This mod should be called either " Age" ("Space Age" without "Space") or "SpaceAge" ("Space Age" without space)
Haha, very nice! I haven't heard a mod/extension name that clever since YouTube Vanced.
Re: Artillery needs to be moved back to Nauvis
Posted: Mon Dec 16, 2024 6:22 pm
by Tinyboss
BraveCaperCat wrote: Fri Dec 13, 2024 8:53 pm
Maybe ______ could also be ______!
Oh god, please delete this while there's still time. There's already a thread about that, and it's a **** show.
Re: Artillery needs to be moved back to Nauvis
Posted: Mon Dec 16, 2024 6:26 pm
by Hares
Tinyboss wrote: Mon Dec 16, 2024 6:21 pm
Hares wrote: Fri Dec 13, 2024 8:52 pm
This mod should be called either " Age" ("Space Age" without "Space") or "SpaceAge" ("Space Age" without space)
Haha, very nice! I haven't heard a mod/extension name that clever since YouTube Vanced.
I have oreboot for you
Re: Artillery needs to be moved back to Nauvis
Posted: Tue Dec 17, 2024 2:42 pm
by BraveCaperCat
Tinyboss wrote: Mon Dec 16, 2024 6:22 pm
BraveCaperCat wrote: Fri Dec 13, 2024 8:53 pm
Maybe cliff explosives could also be moved back to nauvis!
Oh god, please delete this while there's still time. There's already a thread about that, and it's a **** show.
I don't understand...
Re: Artillery needs to be moved back to Nauvis
Posted: Tue Dec 17, 2024 3:07 pm
by Tinyboss
BraveCaperCat wrote: Tue Dec 17, 2024 2:42 pmI don't understand...
Which part? That there's already a thread for that suggestion, or that it's a **** show? If you let me know which one is tripping you up then I can probably help!
Re: Artillery needs to be moved back to Nauvis
Posted: Tue Dec 17, 2024 6:34 pm
by BraveCaperCat
Tinyboss wrote: Tue Dec 17, 2024 3:07 pm
BraveCaperCat wrote: Tue Dec 17, 2024 2:42 pmI don't understand...
Which part? That there's already a thread for that suggestion, or that it's a **** show? If you let me know which one is tripping you up then I can probably help!
because the second part isn't true
Re: Artillery needs to be moved back to Nauvis
Posted: Tue Dec 17, 2024 6:40 pm
by Koub
Moderator-me here, I hope I don't smell the smell of sarcasm in here, I would find it mildly amusing to moderate another thread
Re: Artillery needs to be moved back to Nauvis
Posted: Tue Dec 17, 2024 11:18 pm
by r3xk3nnw4y
BraveCaperCat wrote: Sat Dec 14, 2024 9:23 pm
BraveCaperCat wrote: Sat Dec 14, 2024 8:33 pm
r3xk3nnw4y wrote: Sat Dec 14, 2024 8:28 pm
BraveCaperCat wrote: Sat Dec 14, 2024 6:32 pm
I made a mod!
It fixes the issue mentioned in this discussion (it also moves back cliff explosives, but that can be turned off if unwanted)
I'm afk now or I'd investigate further directly, but when you say moves artillery back to nauvis do you mean that the crafting recipes no longer require vulcanus exclusive resources (tungstun) or that the research is unlocked on nauvis?
Both.
Oh no, I forgot about artillery turrets and artillery wagons...
*Patch Time*
Patch complete, the mod now has all intended features.
Now you have me curious, and for the same reasons, does/can the mod include toggled for it's alterations, like for example, configuring toggles so that artillery research is on vulcanus but materials can be found on nauvis?