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Djmixxx wrote: Mon Mar 07, 2022 3:19 pm

tuhe wrote: Mon Mar 07, 2022 3:08 pm @DJmixxx: Do you believe there is currently a war in Ukraine? Do you believe that Russia has invaded Ukraine?

I will surprise you, there is no war in Ukraine. If you don't believe me, please find the message about the declaration of war.
And this is the problem of Ukraine, in order received normal help , she must declare war on Russia, but then Ukraine will be the aggressor.

I notice you only answered the first half of the question. No 'war' since you believe that is a legal construct, but do you accept there is an invasion of Ukraine by Russia?

ravage666 wrote: Mon Mar 07, 2022 5:24 pm
This is why i posted some data relative to the article. Open minded people educate themselves.
Why is Ukraine the West's Fault? Featuring John Mearsheimer is an university speech not mainstream media
The rest is cause and consequence of the war and sanction .
The bonus i linked video bout corruption and media bias in America.
This lead me to think you didn't check my post and give you opinion.
finally about Canada its my latest personal experience

I did check your post, you may not have understood what cherry picking is.

When an individual collect a bunch of article and put them together saying "read this to get an idea" it's media biais. You are the person who create the filter, therefore you act like the editor of a media. Saying "but i took an university speech" is no argument. You can take dozens of university speech made by people thinking the same way, and 0 university speech made by people thinking a different way on the matter. The biais is in the selection which you did.

If you where to be honnest when making this selection you would try to give importance to the topic and hierarchy based on their importance and relation to the topic.

The trucker in Canada has 0 relation with Ukraine for example it started way before because of Covid for example. you justify adding it as a "bonus" which makes little to no sense in relation to the topic.

Same goes for the homeless in california, and the stuff related to legal corruption in america. It's interesting in itself but unrelated.

Why not instead make a list of the journalist killed in Russia ? Or the corruption in Ukraine ? or in Russia ? that would more about the topic and not something unrelated that look like a diversion. In this case the choice of what put as a link is just there to orient and push the blame and attention somewhere else ( far from where the people are dying ).

Also beware people explaining you the "political media's bias in a single chart" for real. Those things are just more complicated than a 2D charts. You should be skeptical that there is much value in such simplification as those are just label. It can help knowing how individual define themselves, but who is the authority able to properly label the others ?

The "DATA" part if you will is the only part that is non-biaised.

https://globalnews.ca/video/8663979/lat ... f-ukraine/
"We dont want NATO Bases at out borders" russian bot 2022

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Tertius wrote: Mon Mar 07, 2022 4:54 pm
From the inside, the floods were tiny compared to the whole area of Germany (single small valleys or a small area around a river). Since usually nothing important is happening in Germany, these events get big attention. The damage (in Euro) of such events is always high, because Germany is a highly industrialized and densely populated country with every square kilometer full of villages.

Alone on the river "Ahr":

200 hectare (football fields) flooded area
135 deaths
3000 damaged with 450 totally wiped houses
17000 of 56000 people lost all belongings
60 bridges destroyed.
It will take years to repair everything and get back to a normal life.

I wouldn't call that tiny. Compared to other catastrophes in the world it's not huge, though

I'm beginning to understand that a significant portion of people living under despotic regimes do not understand the degree to which they have been influenced by constant propaganda.

Putin feels threatened by successful and prosperous democracies bordering Russia because the people will remove him from power once they see how much his despotic regime has held back the country. To make the people feel like they need him, he needs to invent an enemy and a threat and present himself as protector.

x

ravage666 wrote: Mon Mar 07, 2022 7:37 pm of course i did but its not relevant. i spend 4-5 hour a day reading and watching about the conflict.

Maybe that's the 24/7 news on tv that gives people the impression that this is what you need to do to improvise yourself expert. If you start "following" what's happening then it makes you someone that is an ignorant compared to people that spend their lives studying the same topic before there was a significant event for the general public. For example there are people that spend years writing books about Ukraine, Russia, Geo-politics and so on. In this you will have what are called "expert". That's different from the journalist that cover several different topics. Or when what you do is following a topic and analising it that would be again something different than having academic or experience that gives expertise in a field.

The choice of what is significant to understand a topic is a list that is bound to be incomplete. Why even try ?

ravage666 wrote: Mon Mar 07, 2022 7:37 pm

mmmPI wrote: Mon Mar 07, 2022 6:50 pm The trucker in Canada has 0 relation with Ukraine for example it started way before because of Covid for example. you justify adding it as a "bonus" which makes little to no sense in relation to the topic.

Same goes for the homeless in california, and the stuff related to legal corruption in america. It's interesting in itself but unrelated.

if you don't see the correlation its because you are blind. probably blinded by bias.
Captain America doesn't fight for Freedom he fight for money and power.

There is no logical link between the first and the second of your proposition. And there is still no link explictly described. Say i'm blind, now describe me how a group of people manifesting in canada against the restriction imposed on them due to the COVID is CORRELATED to what is happening in Ukraine right now ? Or even the relation between Canada and what is happening in Ukraine ? maybe i'm blind, you need to use less cryptic and open sentence for me to understand the factual correlation.

You mention Captain America probably because you wrongly assume i'm american ? therefore i would be biaised toward my own country ? unless i'm a homeless or a trucker right ? in that case i would be biaised against my own country of USA or Canada ?

ravage666 wrote: Mon Mar 07, 2022 7:37 pm Which countries are sending military aid to Ukraine?
https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2022/2/2 ... to-ukraine

Do you see whats wrong about sending military aid to Ukraine. Arming Ukrainian make them military target.
America is using them to fight Russian.
America dont care about them, they dont care about ther own people.
What are the Russian demand ? A neutral country.

Isn't the president of Ukraine himself asking for any help he can get for fight off an invasion ? therefore you would need more than insinuation to explain why it would not help Ukraine despite its leader asking for it.

Finland or Switzerland were often cited as an example of neutral country, they support Ukraine too. Do you mean that Russia made a blunder ? since what they want is neutral country according to your words , then there was no insight in the military that a full scale invasion of a 40+million people pacific country would polarize the opinion against you ? It seems hard for me to believe it is possible. It seem more rational to me that Ukaine is being invaded not because Russia wants it neutral but wants it under control.

Do you think Aljazeera will have a tendency to put more blame to the US or less blame to the US when given the choice on a particular topic ? or they are just 1 side with some interest too ?

(it's cheating when you do the question and answer yourself look : What is the putin demand ? => A country that is vassal of Moscow like it was during Soviet time and people to fear him or like him .)

ravage666 wrote: Mon Mar 07, 2022 7:37 pm Ukraine (democratic) corruption is similar to Russia (dictator).

yes 50%-50% it's someone on the internet who said it and he spend 4/5 hours a day reading about the subject for at least a week now so it must be true. ( you did an argument of authority without having any authority so i answered with sarcasm sorry ).

ravage666 wrote: Mon Mar 07, 2022 7:37 pm And by the way US corruption is legal.

Watch the first minute. you know something is wrong in your country when UFC fighter talk about it
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N4X6wpebQ3Q

Corruption is a form of dishonesty or a criminal offense which is undertaken by a person or an organization which is entrusted with a position of authority, in order to acquire illicit benefits or abuse power for one's personal gain.

"https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corruption"

Therefore saying corruption is legal is by definition a paradox. Since corruption's definition is based on the fact that's illegal.

You know something is wrong when the other person stop trying to make reasonning but just place sentence next to each others to try and have an impact that's not based on reading and analising rationnaly the information presented. What you are trying to say is that there exist corruption in the united states. Which is true and documented but again is not clear how it relates to the current situation in Ukraine, and also why it would matter the corruption in USA as much as in a country that is directly involved in the conflict.

I wish to read about evidence of the USA being involved and not a list of what going wrong there in a way that seem really unrelated.

Zentay wrote: Mon Mar 07, 2022 7:50 pm Putin feels threatened by successful and prosperous democracies bordering Russia

I see you completely do not understand what happens in Russia now.
First of all, they always have external Enemy - USA
Second - russian do not like wars, because they have a lot situations in 80- 90 in Chechnya and Afghanistan.
Most wars , where you can see russian is defensive wars or in Russia. Do not forget, what after WWII east from Germany was Russian territory of influency.
---- if you deny, please only with confirmation-----
And last, you cannot imagine how strong in Russia vertical if power. Each represent of the authorities (mayor, judge, police chief) in each city is appointed from Moscow. There simply are no random people.
In the last elections, these appointed people drew how many votes for Putin they needed. To complaints after the elections, they said that we don’t know anything and don’t see.
All army and all police in the Putin hands.
All Russia is like big military schools, you have a lot of freedom (maybe more than in Europe), only if you do not intersect with authority or if you are authority. And of course a lot of corruptions ( in every aspects of live) it is russian realty and they like it ( not all, but most)

mmmPI wrote: Mon Mar 07, 2022 8:36 pm Isn't the president of Ukraine himself asking for any help he can get for fight off an invasion ? therefore you would need more than insinuation to explain why it would not help Ukraine despite its leader asking for it.

What you say after watching this opinion?

https://youtu.be/RHxZyPdo3L0

ravage666 wrote: Mon Mar 07, 2022 7:59 pm its happening in Canada.
Elected government used media to propagate lie and propaganda.

Yes COVID is totally a lie and propaganda

ravage666 wrote: Mon Mar 07, 2022 7:59 pm Because government lost control of the population they invoked Emergencies Act.
freezing bank account without court order and forcing tow company to comply.

Who lost what
100 of protesters is surely not "lost".

ravage666 wrote: Mon Mar 07, 2022 7:59 pm And isnt it government duty to force tow company comply with enacted laws?

No violence,no death. Just peaceful protester having fun enjoying freedom.
People are simply demanding end of vaccine mandate and restriction
No vaccine passport at the border for trucker.

You can demand whatever you want but in democratic country majority wins.

ravage666 wrote: Mon Mar 07, 2022 7:59 pm Democratic fascism in Canada over Freedom convoy
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Authoritarian_democracy

Link from wiki with 0 information about Canada does not correlate to your header. Please stop spreading lies Dombo .

ravage666 wrote: Mon Mar 07, 2022 7:59 pm

Zentay wrote: Mon Mar 07, 2022 7:50 pm I'm beginning to understand that a significant portion of people living under despotic regimes do not understand the degree to which they have been influenced by constant propaganda.

its happening in Canada.
Elected government used media to propagate lie and propaganda.
Because government lost control of the population they invoked Emergencies Act.
freezing bank account without court order and forcing tow company to comply.
No violence,no death. Just peaceful protester having fun enjoying freedom.

People are simply demanding end of vaccine mandate and restriction
No vaccine passport at the border for trucker.

Democratic fascism in Canada over Freedom convoy
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Authoritarian_democracy
Trudeau Invokes the Emergencies Act - Viva Frei Live
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=clyC3pl2EPg

You mean the protests that were blocking ordinary people and businesses from being able to go about their day-to-day lives in an effort to strong-arm the government into doing what they want?

Djmixxx wrote: Mon Mar 07, 2022 8:50 pm

mmmPI wrote: Mon Mar 07, 2022 8:36 pm Isn't the president of Ukraine himself asking for any help he can get for fight off an invasion ? therefore you would need more than insinuation to explain why it would not help Ukraine despite its leader asking for it.

What you say after watching this opinion?

https://youtu.be/RHxZyPdo3L0

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Douglas_Macgregor

x

enterisys wrote: Mon Mar 07, 2022 9:00 pm

ravage666 wrote: Mon Mar 07, 2022 7:59 pm its happening in Canada.
Elected government used media to propagate lie and propaganda.

Yes COVID is totally a lie and propaganda

So i guest now i should include link for covid

https://www.youtube.com/c/Campbellteaching/videos
He talks about Data and medical Studies.

FuryoftheStars wrote: Mon Mar 07, 2022 9:06 pm
You mean the protests that were blocking ordinary people and businesses from being able to go about their day-to-day lives in an effort to strong-arm the government into doing what they want?

You mean a Fringe minority of Canadian. Ya like 5 road where blocked.
Mandate affected more people than that.

ravage666 wrote: Mon Mar 07, 2022 9:21 pm Im French Canadian and didn't trust mainstream media from America.
To get the truth about your country you should check foreign media. They are not paid by the government or local.
at first i posted DATA and link for people to learn and open their mind.
I know its never black and white but at the moment most discussion on the topic are irrelevant
its time to learn and watch whats going on in your country. Check the website of your local politics institution and watch what is going on.
in canada its https://www.ourcommons.ca/en

humm ya i missed the Foreign interventions.

Foreign interventions by the United States
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foreign_i ... ted_States

Foreign electoral intervention
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foreign_e ... tervention

At that point asking for any military help is stupid or related to corruption from foreign country like US
like i said this led to more death and suffering around the entire world.
Capitain America is the hero that save the world. But in fact at the moment its more like killing the world.

And how exactly all this nonce is relevant to the topic?

mmmPI wrote: Mon Mar 07, 2022 9:16 pm https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Douglas_Macgregor

Thanks for link to wiki.
But I am interested in your opinion about Douglas words.

ravage666 wrote: Mon Mar 07, 2022 9:27 pm

enterisys wrote: Mon Mar 07, 2022 9:00 pm

ravage666 wrote: Mon Mar 07, 2022 7:59 pm its happening in Canada.
Elected government used media to propagate lie and propaganda.

Yes COVID is totally a lie and propaganda

So i guest now i should include link for covid

https://www.youtube.com/c/Campbellteaching/videos

He talks about Data and medical Studies.

How exactly reporting death toll and infected is considered a lie and propaganda? Also dont change topics by linking unrelated channels.

ravage666 wrote: Mon Mar 07, 2022 9:21 pm
I know its never black and white but at the moment most discussion on the topic are irrelevant
its time to learn and watch whats going on in your country. Check the website of your local politics institution and watch what is going on.
in canada its https://www.ourcommons.ca/en

humm ya i missed the Foreign interventions.

Foreign interventions by the United States
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foreign_i ... ted_States

Foreign electoral intervention
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foreign_e ... tervention

none of that is relevant to the subject indeed you just continue listing other thing that goes wrong somewhere else in the world for no apparent reason.

ravage666 wrote: Mon Mar 07, 2022 9:21 pm At that point asking for any military help is stupid or related to corruption from foreign country like US
like i said this led to more death and suffering around the entire world.
Capitain America is the hero that save the world. But in fact at the moment its more like killing the world.

That's your opinion this part is related to the topic. It's an unsupported vague claim about giving moral responsability in generic terms based on the limited information you have. It's the best most people can do. It doesn't require much research apart from just writing down your own belief prior to any investigation.

If you think more death and sufreing around the world is the argument. Then it's an ethic view/ philosophy called https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Utilitarianism This is not a coherent narrative with starting an invasion on a 40 million people country. Same like saying "its humanitarian" when the intervention creates more refugees, destructions, death and misery.

In this case things are not "black" and "white" but you weight the positive and negative. There would absolutly no reason /logic to relate to what is happening in Canada or USA. Instead it would be judging the actions based on their perceived consequences. And in that regard the invasion of Ukraine and the suffering of citizens seem way more significant than the potential threat they avoid. If by that one consider the risk that Ukraine was to attack Russia. There is no such thing as "pre-emptive self-defense". That's just a non-sense. Therefore i do not think the utilitarianism reasonning of weighting the death and suffering in the entire world justify whatsoever what is happening.

ESPECIALLY if you are going to point fingers at other places in the world where things don't need to get worse already.

mmmPI wrote: Mon Mar 07, 2022 9:45 pm Therefore i do not think the utilitarianism reasonning of weighting the death and suffering in the entire world justify whatsoever what is happening.

In this situation, an important role is played by the place where to find a person who forms an opinion.
You can form your opinion only based on the reality around you.
But the reality in other places is different and she can form a different opinion.