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The first thing i thougth when seeing this thread was: 1 Rocket defense each hour? What would it take to keep an assembler making rocket defenses full time?

My dissapointment came when i read that a rocket defense only takes 0.5 seconds to craft, and takes a total of 450 items to craft. That will be a problem to input. Using inventory to inventory inserters, you are able to insert irems 5 times as fast, but that is still not enough to keep it fed fast enough.

My next goal was to simply find the way to feed an assembler components as fast as possible, and dessign a factory able to keep that assembler feeded.
That means each defense take a bit less than 4.2 seconds to be crafted.

Next step is calculating how many of each resource I need to make that possible:
As you can see, it takes about three times as much iron and copper to make it that the game suggests, as it doesent show the reagents needed for the Processing Units.
Actually, without the modules, the cost goes down to 3050 iron, 4900 copper, 550 coal and 1725 Petroleum Gas. Just a bit of loose change compared to the real cost.

With a batch of those getting done each 4.2 seconds, you need a lot of assemblers, furnaces and chemical plants:
About 121k furnaces (either steel or electric), 72k Assemblers and 2100 Chemical plants. This is without counting all the oil extration or processing, or the drills (130k drills)

That totals to an electric consumption of 51.8GW, still not taking into consideration oil pumps, refineries or chemical plants for cracking.

With each solar pannel having a real output of (60kW*(0.5+0.2))=42kW, feeding this monstruosity would take a grand total of 1234k solar panels, and 1036k accumulators, or alternably, 102k Steam engines and 143k Boilers, but that would consume 6475 extra coal each second, almost doubling the necessary coal.

Assuming a compact design needs a 6*3 space for electric furnaces, 4*3 for mining drills, 6.5*3 for assembly machines, 2*2 for accumulators and 3*3 for solar panels, the total area required is 20.3 million square tiles, with approximatelly 75% of that area being taken by solar panels/accumulators. To put that into contrast, a single locomotive train would take 4 and a half minutes to go around such facility.It would probably need to be about 20% to 40% bigger to accomodate for all the belts, trains and power poles taking things around.


Finally, to build the factory itself, you need the machines. Leaving out power poles and belts (which might add a bit more time), and with all the assembling perfectly organized, my theoretic factory would take about 7.7 minutes to build itself (or a copy of itself). That pityfull factory on the first post, (at a mere 0.017 RDpM, compared to this factory 14.4 RDpM) would take four and a half days to build all the components.

So here i leave it for today. Tomorrow i might come back with measurements for optimal space usage when smelting and crafting the different components, and initial designs for the different modules that will make that factory (right now i only have the last one, the rocket deffense one, feeded by logistic bots)

PD: I might start a new thread so i dont take over this one.

are two long handed inserters really faster than one fast inserter?

Nope, exactly the same speed, but it allows me to have a bit more variety when filling the assembler. Plus it allows me to put an extra assembler in the output.

I tested both things, and double long handed got 14.4 RDpM to fast inserters, which was at only 12 RDpM. With fast inserters, two of the inserters were useless, as i could take them away and the speed would remain constant. With long handed, i beliee two of them are also not needed, but that gains me one and a half fast inserters on speed.

interesting...

have you tried using a combination of fast an long-handed? you can place a long handed inserter in front of a fast one. then you need a belt that puts items on the edge of the long-handed inserters tile, so the fast one can grab it. in the middle positions, this won't work, of course, since there's no space for the belt. but doing this 8 time might still get you quite a boost.

just an idea, I haven't tried.


edit: of course this will not be faster, since the stack size bonus gets lost. forget about it

Here is my calculation for a factory that is capable of 60 rocket defenses per hour:
The "Multiplier" is set to 60 for 60 rocket defenses per hour. And max production time is set to 3600 seconds of course (1hrs = 3600sec).
The results like how many of each building type is needed are at the bottom of the Picture + their power consumption calculated with 2x Speed modules3 for each building (Assuming all pumpjacks are depleted and produce 0,1/s). The results in the grey boxes show the power consumption and needed solar panles if each pumpjack is surrounded by 12 beacons each with only Speed modules 3. This decreases the number of needed pumpjacks but massively increases the amount of needed solar Panels.

I finished my current map challenge (no solar, no accumulators, no lasers) with very high bugs. Was great fun but now on to what I think is a bigger challenge.

I'm going to try and see how close I can get to a RDF of 10 / hour to start. Depending on how that goes I may go larger.

Map settings that I am using
Iron/Copper/Coal/Oil -- Very Few / Very Large / Very Rich --- I will need a lot of resources and enough room to place the factory. Goal is to get enough patches of large enough size to be worthy of large mining operations. I am debating doing this with all coal power as well and no solar panels, that is not locked down yet. I may not be using laser turrets either, but that depends on how things go.
Stone -- standard settings
Biters -- All maxed but standard for richness. -- I believe this is needed to have enough nests to get the artifacts that are required for the Rocket defenses.

Process that I will be following
1. Standard factory to unlock all research.
2. Convert that factory to build the true Rocket Defense factory.
3. Build Rocket Defense factory

Simple nothing to it .......... ya right, I'm actually not sure it's possible with the number of trains that will be needed etc.

Some production items that I will most likely be using
1. Electric furnace -80% power
2. Electric miners -80% power
3. No Lasers, Solar or Accumulators (debating on this one as it may make it too difficult with the increased resource requirements)
4. Oil production will be running Prod level 3's in all refineries and Chemical plants with +50% speed from beacons on all chemical plants. This is going to be a huge power drain but I believe that will be offset as I think Oil will be the hardest resource to acquire properly.
5. Setup a 10 RDPH factory (in stages)
6. Once that is completed determine if I want to shoot for a 60 RDPH factory.

Map String I'm trying:
>>>AAALAA0AAAABAwYAAAAEAAAAY29hbAEFBAoAAABjb3BwZXItb3Jl
AQUECQAAAGNydWRlLW9pbAEFBAoAAABlbmVteS1iYXNlBQUCCAAAAGl
yb24tb3JlAQUEBQAAAHN0b25lAwMCv3Sb5PERAADtJwAAAAAAAAAAAA
AFABtnAn4=<<<


Looking for any suggestions or feedback on how to handle things. My biggest concern is the oil processing and water needs for everything. Based on my calculations, the power needed for the Miners(modded) / Furnaces(modded) / oil (pre mod) is going to be 2900 Steam engines and 40600 boilers (10 engines to 14 boilers model). I'm going to need to find a massive lake to get the water that I need to handle this power generation.

NOTE:
===========
power requirement calculations will probably be off as they do not account of insterters, logistic bot charging, lamps(the comsume suprisingly much) and defenses

I'm Joining the RDH challenge!!!
darn, i need to expand first (currently no pollution, hence no biters)

amazing idea!
the only thing that keeps me from trying this (would start with 5rdh goal) is the game performance.
my 3 modules/m factory runs at 17 fps...and i have no ambition to make it bigger since it will get worse. (no bad pc!)
how is your game fps doing?

gr0mpel wrote:my 3 modules/m factory runs at 17 fps...and i have no ambition to make it bigger since it will get worse. (no bad pc!)
how is your game fps doing?

https://forums.factorio.com/forum/vie ... fps#p68963

Figured I would post my current progress. (Ended up not using the map I posted, figured it was going to be too easy with the resource level I set it to)
Currently only using gun turrets, no lasers. 100% running on boiler power with no solar or accumulators. My goal is to hit 60 RDPH 100% on coal power.

I have everything researched at this point and am building the infrastructure to hit the mark. During the full research phase I only used productivity and speed modules. Going for the RDPH challenge I will be using lots of efficiency modules.

Current plan: (minimum machine levels for production needs)
Furnaces: 8428(2969 for iron, 5459 for copper) with 2 efficiency 2 modules
Assemblers: 3286 MIN with 1 Speed 3 and 3 Efficiency 3 modules in each
Chemical Plants: 263 with 2 efficiency 3 modules (not counting cracking plants)
Steam Engines: 887 to run machines above
Boilers: 1242 for machines above (using 10 x 14 model)
Miners: 9740 ( 3231 iron, 5942 copper, 566 coal <-- probably a little low) using 3 efficiency 1 in each miner
Refineries: 256 with 2 efficiency 2 modules
Chemical Plants (cracking): 1280, 2 efficiency 2 modules
Wells: 2560 wells (depleted) with 2 speed 3 modules
Steam Engines for Miners / Refineries: 1300
Boilers for Miners / Refineries: 1820

Will need a few additional coal miners to feed the boiler lines and then a power line to feed the power lines etc.

At this point I have the factory building the factory parts and producing military supplies to clear the aliens out, build rail lines etc. Power usage is only 80 - 90 MW atm, well below my peak of 115 MW when pushing research full tilt.

Had to give up on the above world. Resource patches were WAY too small and emptied too fast to even give a shot at a 60RD factory.

I'm trying to figure out how to generate a map with enough oil to generate 60 RD / hour and all I can say is that I don't think it's possible with the current game options. I think you have to have a modded in set of oil wells. 2560 wells (when depleted) are required to produce enough oil to get 60 RD/H. Anyone know of a way to get more oil or a mod that increases the density of oil wells?

The RSO mod introduces a complete new Resource Generation System. It is much more configurable than the vanilla code, although the settings aren't saved in the map but in a config file in the mod folder. It is thought to decrease resouce density but you can change it to spawn oil fields of hundred wells or more in abundance and iron and copper fields of multiple million ores.