Factorio Forums

Qcor wrote:

i want to do a tutorial too

YES PLEASE! It's not that complicated but some kind of spotlight would be rly rly nice.


Also I ran into a problem/bug(?). I'd like to buy my first mine (T3 talent) but whenever I click the button I get this message: Not have enough space.
First I thought it's about my inventory but it was far from full. As it turns out you need a free spot on your hot bar

If you want i can do it, but is intencional, when just buy a mine, some ppl goes to builds > mines, maybe i need to change the message.

The changes for 0.3.6 are:
- Now colors of flying text are of color of player (helpful for MP)
- Modified functions of walls (first step for gates!) - bugs expected -
- Now can craft 8 donations and 16 stacks of arrows / day
- Now el maximo de la masa esta bien calculado (have more mass, but isn't the max of the wall)
- Ahora la muralla regenera 1% de masa cada 3 secs (before 5%)
- Modified bonus of class (now affects the base)
- Changed recipe's icon of talent tier 1
- Fixed bonus general of gui
- Now bodies are cheaper

- Now all entities, items and recipes are created with a base entity, item or recipe (with this i can add how many entities i want and is very functional with changes of factorio's version)

I need something more on this version?
I like 0.3.5 is very stable i think

And today i've played with the new forum!!!!

I feel like I'm missing something here.. I don't get the idea of a bow.
When compared to a simple machine gun with piercing ammo (or even normal one) it looks super weak. Shorter range is one thing but the real problem is shooting speed. 0.3 per sec compared to 15 per second ( more like 20ish per second with early upgrades).
The dps difference is just enormous.

So the question is - what am I missing here..? Cause I rly doubt that it is so weak intentionally.

Qcor wrote:I feel like I'm missing something here.. I don't get the idea of a bow.
When compared to a simple machine gun with piercing ammo (or even normal one) it looks super weak. Shorter range is one thing but the real problem is shooting speed. 0.3 per sec compared to 15 per second ( more like 20ish per second with early upgrades).
The dps difference is just enormous.

So the question is - what am I missing here..? Cause I rly doubt that it is so weak intentionally.

The bow is a problem.
Ok, i'll give more dps in low levels, to do same dmg than pistol with range and bow at lvl 1.
And i'll increse the speed at high levels, but i can't do a bow lvl 1 same like machinegun (tested, bow can kill a big biter with only 1 hit)

But isn't compatible with hardcorio bitters for now

I really like the idea of leveling up this whole stuff
It is true that it can be very powerful in the end game but what about early and mid-game?

From my perspective, as a person who is new to this mod, my thought process was like this:
OK, so this mod is all about blood, so lets make a tree farm to get more hearts/blood to get more talents. ( and I made 4 tree farms )
Then I realized that it is painfully slow to get more talents this way so as soon as I had enough to make T3 talent I invested in first fisher hoping that it will speed things up.. and again - no such luck still slow as hell.

About the same time I got my 2nd fisher I was attacked by biters for the first time.. so now I have to decide how to defend myself. On the one hand I have a bow which will be IMBA some day (but certainly not in near future because my blood income is still just not good enough) and on the other hand I can use submachine gun with lvl3 speed and lvl3 dmg (because I still only have red/green packs)
So basically it gets down to a simple choice of bow (7dmg / 0.3 shots per second) vs machinegun (sth like 8dmg / 20 shots per second).

My point is - by the time you are forced to use a weapon for the first time the bow is waaaaaay behind the vanilla guns, and you just don't have any FAST way to catch up... despite the fact that I was investing in blood generating stuff from the beginning.

IMHO the good starting point (dmg wise) for a bow would be somewhere above pistol and below machinegun so it could be used to defend the first attacks.

I hope it makes sense It's also possible that I suck at this and missed some great way of generating more blood.. which would solve all above problems

Ok, i'm making a lot of new formules, my old formula is very wrong:


Now i have 2 formules.
The first just subtracts 0.02 of attackspeed to every level, lineal in attackspeed, but every level gains more attackspeed: (6-x*0.02)


And the seconds (My preffer), adds 0.2 shoots/sec to every level, lineal in shoots/sec (60/(x*0.2+10))

L0771 wrote:Ok, i'm making a lot of new formules, my old formula is very wrong:

Old Formula

Now i have 2 formules.
The first just subtracts 0.02 of attackspeed to every level, lineal in attackspeed, but every level gains more attackspeed: (6-x*0.02)

New Formula 1

And the seconds (My preffer), adds 0.2 shoots/sec to every level, lineal in shoots/sec (60/(x*0.2+10))

new Formula 2

I think the new formula 1 is better (imo) because it matchs better what you would expect from a RPG (and this mod kinda makes factorio one )
it seems more logical for me to have a stronger boost nea the end than in the beginning

what about arrow dmg and dmg type?
Do you want it to be flat 7 dmg with no piercing effect? or would it scale somehow?

StanFear wrote:I think the new formula 1 is better (imo) because it matchs better what you would expect from a RPG (and this mod kinda makes factorio one )
it seems more logical for me to have a stronger boost nea the end than in the beginning

I understand your point, but in a rpg the highest ranks are harder, here, every lvls costs 1 talent tier 2
But it's ok, i'll use formula 2, i've posted all that numbers because i don't like see only my point of view

Qcor wrote:what about arrow dmg and dmg type?
Do you want it to be flat 7 dmg with no piercing effect? or would it scale somehow?

piercing effect don't exists, only have physical, acid, laser, explosion, impact, poison and fire, "piercing" bullets are only physical dmg.
Arrows are physical, but i can change to impact, but bitters don't have impact armor, is soo unbalanced.
Tested with 10 arrows/sec and it's ok, a bit easy, but no one likes the bow... (it's ok with small bitters)

Additional:
Testing walls, 69 bases, 4416 walls (i don't know who want too many walls...)
I'll need other way...

It looked a bit off so I did some calculations... and thinking.
First of all we have to answer possibly the most important question here - why would ppl use bow instead of any other weapon?

IMO the answer is as follows:
It should be BETTER or at least very similar to other weapons available at the same stage of the game or when it matters the most.

Now the question is - WHEN it matters the most? WHEN do you actually need it/use it. IMO it is when you start attacking biter bases.. aka midgame, when you already have blue science packs and to push research any further you just have to go out there and kill few bases to get alien artifacts.
Before that, in early stages, you probably just relay on few turrets here and there and your personal weapon does not impact your gameplay.
To a degree it could be also important in the late game but you probably already have tanks/combat robots etc by then so in late game it is more of a personal choice - do I want to get imba armor+gun and blow up stuff 'by hand' or do I want to go full high-tech and lets say use construction robots+blueprints to annihilate biters without even shooting one bullet.

So the conclusion IMO is easy - most important moment is when you start attacking biter bases in mid-game.

OK, now we know WHEN, so lets establish our main competition at this stage of the game.

What do we have at our disposal at that stage? Well... probably most of stuff up to blue science packs. So in terms of gun upgrades that would mean dmg 4 and shooting speed 4. (according to wiki it is +60% dmg and +100% shooting speed).
Also at that stage of the game our main concern are probably medium (maybe even big) biters, because honestly small ones are not even worth mentioning.

Sooo.. time to do some math. How effective is our standard machine gun vs medium biters?

base dmg: 5
base shooting speed: 15 /s
upgraded dmg: 5+60% = 8
upgraded speed 15+100% = 30/s
medium biter armor = 4
effective dmg per bullet = 8dmg -4(armor) = 4
effective dps = 4 * 30/s = 120 dps

and vs big biters:
big biter armor = 8
effective dmg per bullet = 1/(2 - (8 - 8)) = 1/2 ( I am NOT SURE if that is correct, could be outdated formula, I took it from wiki)
effective dps = 1/2 * 30/s = 15dps

OK so now we know our competition. For our bow to be a preferred choice here it should be at least as good as it's main competitor which means at least 120dps vs medium and 15dps vs big biters. So the question is how many lvls do we need on our bow to match those dps values.

bow vs medium biter
base dmg = 7
base shooting speed = 10.20 /s (taken from table for formula 2)
upgraded dmg = 7
upgraded speed = X/s - that is the question
effective dmg per bullet = 7dmg -4(armor) = 3
effective dps = 3* X/s - we want that to be 120 so basic math - 3*X=120, X=40/s
So to match the dps of a machinegun we need our bow to be lvl 150... yeaaaaaa...

bow vs big biter
effective dmg per bullet = 1/(2 - (7-8)) = 1/3 (again - not sure if correct, see above)
effective dps = 1/3 * X/s
To match the machine gun we need it to be = 15dps. So 1/3*X=15, X=45/s and that means we need our bow to be lvl 175.

The bottom line is - our bow at lvls 160ish would perform about the same as our machinegun at this stage of the game.
The question now is - is that a viable option? How long it would take to get to that lvl?

Out of pure curiosity I'll calculate this based on my current in-game setup witch consists of 4 cursed tree farms. 1 tree gives 1 heart per 1 day iirc..but you need to replant seeds which takes about 20 hearts (to get enough blood to craft new seeds) so 4 farms means 4*(49-20)= 116hearts per factorio day.
Now how much would I need to get 160lvl bow.. 160*T2 talents = 160*5*T1 talents = 160*5*6 parts = 160*5*6*4 hearts... = 19.200 hearts.
Meaning about 165 factorio days.. so roughly 19 HOURS of real time.
Compare that to how easily you can get upgraded machine gun.. hehe


OK so clearly sth is still wrong with the balance. If you'd ask me what is wrong then I'd say that the main problem is the BASE DMG = 7 (or the fact that it is not scaling and/or scaling horribly). Here is why:

Lets say that you just killed you first biter bases and got to a point where you can research dmg5 upgrade for your ammo. Now your effective dps of your machine gun vs big biters goes from 15dps to 30dps. And what about our bow? It's already at lvl175 (15dps).. to get 30dps out of it you'd have to lvl it up to lvl 400.

Hope I didn't mess up any math here. If so then pls just ignore my wall of text cheers

ok, first, bow lvl 250 is because i need "load" all bows before start the game, with the new update i can add how many bows i want (if i want 1m, i only need change "250" for "1000000", i think "late-game" for a normal game is 100-150
I don't count pistol... is for first 5 min.

• Attack speed:
  • Machine gun:
    • Without tech: 15 /s
    • Science pack 1: + 40% = 15 + 6 = 21 /s
    • Science pack 2: + 30% = 15 + 10.5 = 25.5 /s
    • Science pack 3: + 30% = 15 + 15 = 30 /s
    • Science pack 4: + 60% = 15 + 24 = 39 /s
  • Bow:
    • Lvl 1: 25 /s
    • Lvl 10: 26.5 /s
    • Lvl 25: 30 /s
    • Lvl 50: 40 /s
    • Lvl 100: 60 /s
    • Lvl > 100 isn't a normal game
• Range:
  • Machine gun:
    • Always 15
  • Bow: - Lineal, i don't like it
    • Lvl 1: 10
    • Lvl 10: 11
    • Lvl 25: 12.5
    • Lvl 50: 15
    • Lvl 100: 20
    • Lvl 250: 36 XD
• Damage:
  • Regular Magazine: (I'll show this because cursed arrows are very cheap, i think are cheaper than Regular Magazine)
    • Without tech: 2
    • Science pack 1: + 10% = 2 + 0.2 = 2.2
    • Science pack 2: + 30% = 2 + 0.8 = 2.8
    • Science pack 3: + 20% = 2 + 1.2 = 3.2
    • Science pack 4: + 60% = 2 + 2.4 = 4.4
  • Piercing rounds magazine:
    • Without tech: 5
    • Science pack 1: + 10% = 5 + 0.5 = 5.5
    • Science pack 2: + 30% = 5 + 2 = 7
    • Science pack 3: + 20% = 5 + 3 = 8
    • Science pack 4: + 60% = 5 + 6 = 11
  • Arrows: (Upgradeable with bow level (the stat, not the bow)) - Lineal, and every level is harder than before
    • Lvl 1: 7
    • Lvl 10: 11.5
    • Lvl 25: 19
    • Lvl 50: 31.5
    • Lvl 100: 65.5
    • Lvl 1000: 506.5 <- loooool... yep, i have 1000 arrows, but in a normal game can't get more than lvl 50

En resumen:
Damage, i can do a no-lineal formula, with less dmg in low levels, starting from 5 and ~15 at lvl 50
Range, i can do a no-lineal formula, but with few changes
Attack speed, i think the numbers above are right

Those numbers definitely look better now can't wait to test it.

Another 2 topics then:
1) general balance and pace of the progression
2) fishers and other blood/heart income
3) mines

ad1)
So what is the balancing point here? And how long should it take to get to a certain number of talents/lvls .
To be competitive with vanilla items mid-game our tool should be roughly as good as a steel tool. Simply because it is VERY easy to get very early. So our tool ideally should start with low stats but also should be very easily upgradeable to a point where it's about the same as steel tool.

Beyond that point.. well.. hard to tell.
Main question here is "Why would I lvl it up even further than that?". The thing is that I can't really see the reason to do that. Yes, you COULD want to be it a bit faster and I feel that personally I would want to have a better tool but the real question is HOW BADLY DO I WANT IT?.
It is a trade off... instead of lvling up my tool I'd probably prefer to invest in.. well.. plenty of other things.. like maybe armor or weapon or mine or fisher or generator etc.. and each of those seem like a better investment (with much better payoff) than lvling up my tool which is more like a 'quality of life' investment.

So the bottom line here - I feel like simple leveling up the speed of a tool is not good/beneficial enough to be worth investing in beyond the steel-lvl speed (because you can invest in other things to get better/more useful things)

What about armor? Here the situation is similar. Probably should start low but at the same time it should not be hard/take long to get a point where its stats would be comparable to Basic Modular Armor with simple upgrades - again, simply because it is easy to get quite early (it's still green science pack tech).
Beyond that.. well.. it is where things get hard to compare. Obviously the ability to use shield extenders+fusion reactor on top of movement speed gain is a huge upside. You have to somehow compensate the lack of those items. One way is to lvl up armor AND hp regen. It would probably give the similar effect of having a shield which is recharging fast with reactor(s). This way you probably could tank the incoming damage.
The only problem here is how long would it take to get to that point? You need HP regen which is T6(or T5?) and a LOT of armor lvls. Unfortunately I have no idea what is the base hp regen nor how is armor leveling up... but I imagine that it would be a HUUUGE investment of blood/hearts.
Which brings up the next topic:

ad2) So we've got fisher and cursed tree farms. I assume that those 2 are the intended main sources of the blood income, am I right? (the 3rd source would be 'living blood' collected by blood tanks near the defensive positions/kill zones but this is hardly the reliable source IMO especially early and midgame when attacks are quite rare. The 4th source would be a blood donation but I assume it is intended only to kick-start production line very early in the game)

From my very limited experience with this mod (well, it's my first game) it feels like the blood income is slow. I have 4 cursed tree farms + 2 fishers (lvl5 and lvl3) which seemed to be a reasonable amount. Well, it's obvious now that it is just not enough. The problem is that even if I were to double this it still would be quite slow not to mention the space required and pollution (but those seem like a good tradeoff of not requiring power to run).
It FEELS like (and I must stress out the word 'feels' here. I did NOT run any numbers/calculations here so I might be very wrong) it would take a loooooot of time to get enough talents to lvl up all things which I should lvl up. I mean
a) a tool to at least steel lvl
b) armor to somewhere around basic modular
c) hp regen to a point where I could tank even small groups of biters
d) bow to a decent lvl...
and those are just a bare minimum of the mid-game.
Ofc you would probably want to invest also in some fishers/mines in the mean time which pushes your blood demands even further.

It also feels like fishers are a bit slow for their cost. T3 talent is not that cheap. Lets think about how expensive the fisher is or in another words - how long it would take to 'earn' enough blood having 1 fisher to buy new one. I just tested that a lvl 5 fisher produces about 10blood per 2min50sec. Lets assume 3min for easy calculations.
T3 talent = 10 T1 talents (=1000 blood going with 100blood->T1 conversion) or = 10*6parts = 10*6*4 hearts =240 hearts which is equivalent to 240*2.5 blood = 600 blood if going with hearts->blood conversion.
So blood produced by fishers is obviously worth much less than hearts in terms of converting into talents. So how long it would take to buy new one? We need 1000 blood @ 10 blood per 3min rate.. so about 5 hours. Yeaa... not rly a good investment in terms of return rate. (and that is lvl 5 fisher so bare in mind that in real game it would probably take even longer because you start @lvl1. Could also take less because I'm not sure how it scales at lvl6+ but you get my point.. it is just not worth the investment in early game. Farms cost almost nothing and give you much more blood)

ad3) miner. This one might be a bit OP imo. My miner is lvl9 currently and it was not that hard to get to that lvl. Now it takes about 85 kW so roughly about the same as single vanilla miner but doesn't produce any pollution and is 18 times faster.
It certainly LOOKS OP at the first glance but I'm not sure about that. At this speed you would mine the spot in no time.. which means moving it = loosing all levels. Also you can have only 2 of them (with no additional investments). Those two factors are quite a big tradeoff so it might be just enough to justify its ridiculous speed. Definitely needs testing..

Oh and one additional observation: I'm quite sure it is OP in modpacks with unlimited ores because well.. you don't ever have to move it which negates its biggest downside and balancing point... but I guess it is a problem of modpack creator, not the mod creator.

that error??? appers when the run up to the steam generator, there is stiil coal drills

valokorden wrote:that error??? appers when the run up to the steam generator, there is stiil coal drills

A error with oxygen mod, solved for next version.

Qcor wrote:... Mining tool...

I think the mining tool is perfect now, you need inverst 31 talents tier 2 for a permanent steel-tool, steel-tool needs only 20 science pack 1, isn't important, but 5 steel-plate and have only 5k of durability.
But, steel-axe is the best vanilla's tool, with only 31 talents your tool is a lot better, because: is semi-permanent(a lof of durability and very cheap), mining you can gain talent-parts, exp for mining stat (and with this have chance to get a bonus of items mined and gives more exp for your mines), with only 15 talents you have 3/4 of mining speed than vanilla, with mining lvl 25 you have 25% to get a bonus item, this is better than 4 of mining speed.
And i don't like give a "free" tool better than all, when you have a automated factory, steel-tool haven't a good use, is only for the begin, but with cursed tool you have a lot of benefits.
If you don't like a better cursed tool, don't waste talents in this, but in more than 30 min, only with bonus of mine with a cursed-axe, you can upgrade more than a steel-axe, additional, you need a tech for this, i think a cursed-tool lvl 8 is very easy to get.
With a easier cursed tool i think it's unbalanced.

Qcor wrote:... armor...

Now, the armor is unbalanced, with a armor lvl full, you can have how many biters you want and no one gives you a hit (yeah, they are hitting you, but no one gives dmg)
I've tried to use some of this numbers for lvl 100.
I need a rebalanced of armor with resistences % more stables, maybe from 30% to 65%
but... basic modular armor needs 330 science pack 1 and 240 science pack 2... and 30 advanced circuits, 5 processing circuits, 50 steel-plate... and for processing circuits you need oil processing 50 science pack 1 and 50 science pack 2 and a lot of more work... is like a early mid-game, i think need take from heavy armor, and if you don't focus this, sometimes don't have a heavy armor for firsts attacks.
I need to recalcule resistances with % ~30-65 and higher defense than now.
In a few hour i'll have a new functions for the attack speed of the bow and armor.
Why i need "somehow compensate the lack of shield extenders+fusion reactor", the cursed armor have a bigger grid than all others armors, 21x21 max (for now, i just seen i can have bigger grids now), and from lvl 1, what is the problem with this grid?
The base regen of player is 0.01/tick (0.6/sec), and the talent adds 0.005 / level (every talent adds 50% of base regen) and 0.005 every defense level (50% more of base regen).

brb, i'll respond points 2 and 3 later, i need go out :p

EDIT 1:

Qcor wrote:... fishers and treefarm...

I have a big problem with this, if the talents are "free", is soo easy have all what you want and this is very unbalanced (the most talents are unlimited, and can unbalance if you only focus 1 talent).
Donations aren't a bad idea, every 32 lvls of exploration, you have 1 donation bonus, and with a decent regen of hp, can do 8 donations /day (20 litres without exploration).
In a last update, you can get talent parts mining, farming, crafting... in a game i've tested, i have mining-tool lvl 600, armor and bow lvl 250 and others stuff tier 3, without a farm, without a donation, only with this bonus.
- in versions 0.1 and 0.2 the only way to get talents are with farms of hearths :/
But your point is right, need another passive form to take talents, i think the fisher need an increase (and it planned for a future upgrade, maybe the next), isn't only calculate how many blood can you take in x time, you need count exp and levels, is easy, but takes time.

The tool:

Yes, I agree that the bonuses and speed are OK at lvls around 25-30. The problem is that getting to that point takes a bit too long. In theory you COULD lvl it up very fast.. just invest in it if from the start and it will not take long BUT in practice you probably will NOT invest in it. Why? Simply because there are plenty of more important things to invest in. As a general rule you want to invest in your income first and/or things you need the most at that time. In the early stages you need 1) more resources 2) more blood/talents.
The thing is that you use your tool only in the first few minutes. Then it suddenly becomes much MUCH less relevant. As the result you probably will invest in fishers/mines/etc instead of lvling up your tool... and suddenly you will be at a point where you can easily make steel tool and your cursed-axe is still at low lvl.
I'm not so sure if the bonuses of having cursed-axe are enough of a reason to warrant investing so many talents (ofc it also depends on how hard is to make a talent. You mentioned that it will change so it will change also this whole tool dilemma)

The armor:

L0771 wrote:Why i need "somehow compensate the lack of shield extenders+fusion reactor", the cursed armor have a bigger grid than all others armors, 21x21 max

Just ignore me.. I tried to open the grid and it didn't open so I assumed it just doesn't have a grid. I must have missclicked or sth. It works just fine. Sorry about that

Blood/talents income:

L0771 wrote:every 32 lvls of exploration, you have 1 donation bonus, and with a decent regen of hp, can do 8 donations /day (20 litres without exploration).
In a last update, you can get talent parts mining, farming, crafting... in a game i've tested, i have mining-tool lvl 600, armor and bow lvl 250 and others stuff tier 3, without a farm, without a donation, only with this bonus

Waaaaaittt... WHAAT?? How?? You mean lvl 600, lvl 250 and another lvl 250 in normal game? Without cheating?
In "only with this bonus" by 'bonus' you mean this random passive income from crafting/farming etc? Well.. then clearly I'm doing something very wrong here because I get 1 part every few minutes.. which is painfully slow.

Qcor wrote:... miner...

You are right, isn't possible take all resources from a cursed mining drill, and with the latest update, where mines don't have a max of level, i think they needs a nerf the speed.
Cursed drills don't produce pollution, they consume this, if you don't have pollution, the drill will lose exp and regress if have less than 0.
And if you destroy 1 mining drill, you can rebuild it, from builds menu (losing a % of exp for this, but isn't a big problem), if you have a bug with this, please report it, i really found A LOT of bugs and no one report it...

Qcor wrote:... tool...

I can give more talents in the beginning, maybe 15 t2 and 30 t1, are the first talents.
But EVERY level gained gives 1 t1 (and general gives 1 t2), i'll add every 5 levels of every stat gives a 1 t2 (and general 1 t3), but if don't spends right, this talents are useless.

Qcor wrote:Waaaaaittt... WHAAT?? How?? You mean lvl 600, lvl 250 and another lvl 250 in normal game? Without cheating?
In "only with this bonus" by 'bonus' you mean this random passive income from crafting/farming etc? Well.. then clearly I'm doing something very wrong here because I get 1 part every few minutes.. which is painfully slow.

I'm sorry, i've checked just now, 600, 8 and 11, is a game only for test, i don't play a map of factorio for... many months... maybe a year, and this game have more time afk than active.
The formula to gain talent part depends of mining level, at lvl 100 you have 20% of chance to gain a talent part every resource you mines, for the numbers, at level 100, you gains 1 talent part / 5 resources mined, 1 talent tier 1 every 30 resources, i don't know how is calculate the amount of resources mined, but, is very easy. hmmm do you have Cursed Classes?

EDIT: a new interface

I think I don't understand the basics.. few questions then:

- why your mining lvl is so high? You need to mine 'by hand' to lvl it up, right? So I don't get it.. why would anyone mine so much "by hand" if you have tons of different (I mean vanilla+modded) miners at your disposal? Am I missing something here?
I agree that bonus is nice.. and it could be a source of bonus talents but cmon.. it's not Minecraft why would you ever want to mine so much manually??

- how do you think the progression should look like? I mean what do you expect of ppl to build first and invest in first?
I mean my progression was very chaotic. It was sth like bonus crafting-> few 24h day things because my power gen was mainly solar -> miner -> tree farms x4 -> 1st fisher ->2nd fisher. Messed up like hell.. but hey, I had no bloody idea what I was doing At least I now know it is the wrong way.
So I'm now wondering what is the right way? How do you see it? Any particular bonuses first? or maybe farms? or fishers? if so then HOW MANY of it in the early-to-mid-game.

Oh and one more thing - it would be rly rly nice to know (in game) how the progression goes. I mean for example that a miners range at certain lvl goes from 3x3 to 5x5, or how fast fisher generates blood at lvl X... you know what I mean.

I missed your question about cursed classes.
and as it turns out I don't have it because the shadowmegamod pack doesn't have it. (maybe it should?)
Anyway.. just installed it but I can't find any info on what it actually does..

Qcor wrote:- why your mining lvl is so high? You need to mine 'by hand' to lvl it up, right? So I don't get it.. why would anyone mine so much "by hand" if you have tons of different (I mean vanilla+modded) miners at your disposal? Am I missing something here?
I agree that bonus is nice.. and it could be a source of bonus talents but cmon.. it's not Minecraft why would you ever want to mine so much manually??

Only for farm talents, you have 2 ways to farm talents (passive and active), in passive you can use fishers or farms, it gives talents depending of the amount; and in active are all stats (no one likes to farm talents all day, but this way must be a bit better)
Isn't minecraft, but in all free-time, i just take my cursed axe and mine some stone (and i have infinite resources), i have a big farm of trees too (and farming lvl 55-60), i don't know how all ppl plays factorio, i have a lot of "free" time, just waiting ...

Qcor wrote:- how do you think the progression should look like? I mean what do you expect of ppl to build first and invest in first?
I mean my progression was very chaotic. It was sth like bonus crafting-> few 24h day things because my power gen was mainly solar -> miner -> tree farms x4 -> 1st fisher ->2nd fisher. Messed up like hell.. but hey, I had no bloody idea what I was doing At least I now know it is the wrong way.
So I'm now wondering what is the right way? How do you see it? Any particular bonuses first? or maybe farms? or fishers? if so then HOW MANY of it in the early-to-mid-game.

hmmm a hard question...
- If your objective is build a rocket defense very fast and finish faster the game, i think you can't appreciate this mod.
- If you don't like farm and don't are a furious builder, and you like kill bitters, spend yours talents T1 in talents T2 to take a better bow and armor, maybe spend some talents in t5 to take talents killing bitters, when bow and armor are lvl ~25 spend some talents in attack bonus and explore bonus (to craft more arrows)... I don't like this way Xd
- If you just don't like farm, only build, i recommends spends all your talents T1 in crafting bonus, the first 7-15 talents in cursed axe, after change T2 for T3 and buy first some walls for yours main gates and all fishers you can, a part of blood spend in bodies and all other in talents t1, with bodies change your electric generators with cursed generators, are a bit hard to get, but produces more energy than all (and are really pretty ). And maybe make a farm of hearts. And all builds are focused in this players.
- If you like farm, do what you want, spend all in upgrade cursed axe (t2) and for every axe buy 4 mining or farming bonus (t1), buy some wall bases and give all your waste to eat, with a bow lvl 1 can defend against small and medium biters (with the wall obviously)
But all players should spend 7-15 talent t2 in tool, armor and bow.

Qcor wrote:Oh and one more thing - it would be rly rly nice to know (in game) how the progression goes. I mean for example that a miners range at certain lvl goes from 3x3 to 5x5, or how fast fisher generates blood at lvl X... you know what I mean.

In the next update (i think it will be 0.4) is easier to see this
fishers blood = lvl * 0.0002 (lvl * 0.001 in the change) -- I don't know how this calcule the blood taken, this is only speed.
mining radius = math.ceil(lvl / 5) + 0.49 (math.ceil rounds for above)

EDIT:

Qcor wrote:I missed your question about cursed classes.

Only install it, in the beginning the game will ask what class you want, that class gives a (big) bonus of exp, only that.
I don't know why don't work with shadow, maybe other mod from modpack gives problems, i don't know.

Any word on the "battery farming"?

Also, congrats on finally getting a dedicated section.
Not like this mod was the first to integrate experience points or anything

n9103 wrote:Also, congrats on finally getting a dedicated section.

Thanks, isn't easy all upgrades, i'm trying to balance my mod...

n9103 wrote:Any word on the "battery farming"?

Not like this mod was the first to integrate experience points or anything

hmmm what?