tsjeva wrote: Mon Jun 13, 2022 6:56 pm
I have been lurking here for some time now and only conclusion I can draw from this topic is that it should never have happened in the first place. It is a political debate sort of place between commonfolk of the internet that is never going to get anywhere. The mods seem to have given up doing anything.
This statement is self contradicting on 2 points :
If you had read the topic then you would have read the moderators explaining their behavior. They are doing something. They are not censoring people but the forum rules still applies and laws makes illegal things like nudes and gore , you can't death threat someone, and if you publish your credit card number or make some advertisement for a product you sell it will be erased eventually. My conclusion is that from your first sentence on this thread you start giving undeserved blame to someone where you clearly could have remain silent.
Also if you ever had a political debate of some sort you'd know those hardly ever leads somewhere. That's just a place where people can share their opinion with other people. You explain your argument, the other people explain their argument. If you do it regularly it allows to follow what the majority think, and why and account for the minorities different opinions. It also allow to debunk invalid argument that are based on ignorance, lies, superstition, unjustifiable motives, cognitive biais, or worse.
Otherwise people are left only in bubbles where they all repeat the same things over and over.
Even though that could sound similar to what you pretend to have read, if you (re) read carefully the first post, there is no call for a debate, on the contrary, the precise wording is :
Please, keep the discussions about the world events (if you can't help it) specifically in threads related to this post, as we want to keep the rest of the forum on topic,
Therefore one has to understand that people coming here "debate" are only people that choose to do so against the title of the thread and the voiced opinion of the devs on their own website of their own super game. There have been many users trying to do so. Hopefully Devs made this thread so that angry people could rant in here instead of creating countless new topics to share their valuable opinion.
This lead to the third point : when you say that "it should never have happened" you are mistaken because you look at the reaction of the 'worst' (according to your personnal moral judgement) people that come on the thread and blame it on the dev who opened it. This is a mis-representation of the chain of consequences.
Maybe better explained this way =>Following your reasonning nothing should ever be said in public because it is possible that someone decide to argue with stupid argument after you said it and it would then lead to the situation in which this tread has developped. This conclusion is pretty wrong, that is because the reasonning is wrong, the mistake is when you consider " it should never have happened" because with this sentence you create a fallacious collective responsability.
Even simpler =>
facts :
1)Dev say something
2)People argue with each other
wrong conclusion:
1) Dev shouldn't have said something because the arguing is not good.
correct conclusion :
1) Dev are really concerned by the topic
2) Some people are disrespectful
tsjeva wrote: Mon Jun 13, 2022 6:56 pm
Posts are getting picked apart left and right no matter the "stance" or even whether they intended to argue or are just putting up facts or telling about their own experiences.
What do you suggest instead ? that post where people say they are telling the truth should be highlighted ? everyone picks a color to show their side wether you like the war happening and people dying or if you don't like the war happening and you prefer everyone is safe ?
It's irony, because it's very obvious that people when lying are going to pretend telling their own experiences when really they are giving an opinion, how do you make the difference ? you can't attach it to the message itself, therefore your point is not valid.
tsjeva wrote: Mon Jun 13, 2022 6:56 pm
This topic is also very toxic.
It starts out by polarizing itself. Immediately there is a "right" and "wrong" side. Not even one hour in, someone gets called out for not opposing Russia enough.
You say the topic is toxic, but your example is just the behavior of a few individual person, this argument make no sense. The topic doesn't become toxic because some people are acting poorly on the internet about it, otherwise everything would be a toxic topic.
tsjeva wrote: Mon Jun 13, 2022 6:56 pm
"We support Russians that stand against the actions of the Russian government." Tell me who likes being called the bad guy? Not a lot of people apparently and it is showing. The fact that there are dev team members in Ukraine does not justify provoking people.
Keep in mind that the initial post was written before the new law that make criticizing the war illegal in Russia. At the time it was therefore not illegal to voice your opposition to the Russian governement for you, even if you are Russian. Putin was elected against other people no ? What's wrong prefering a peaceful opposition party ? (It wasn't forbidden at the time).
Now we are 110 days after the beginning of the war and it's pretty obvious that the devastation caused, the suffering, the dead people is very bad. It has become illegal to criticize it in Russia only when it was going to be criticized, when the failure became visible, that's a desperate measure to save the face when one made a mistake and one can't accept it so one refuse to talk to anyone that would remind the person of the mistake. Or worse, when one has an army under its control and uses it to force other people not to call it a mistake with threats and violence while trying to pretend nothing's wrong and also it's the other guy fault at the same time.
The Russian government launched the biggest war in europe since WWII, that's probably why the term "Putler" appeared in the result of search engines since the beginning of the war.
tsjeva wrote: Mon Jun 13, 2022 6:56 pm
There are better ways to create a discussion about the war.
- Any news about or from the development team members (or anyone else!) stuck in the war?
- What if we let standpoints, opinions just be, not arguing on them? Instead of forcing pro Russians to constantly fend for themselves.
- Man when does the war end? Anyone care to analyze and discuss that? I am genuinely scared of it turning into something worse than it already is.
- What even is the Ukrainian red cross and what are they doing?
- What does it actually look like for the future of politics in Russia? (As opposed to what many wish for it to be.)
(Will this work?)
1) You just suggested you support the government that says Ukraine doesn't have right to exist but you wanted to know if everything was ok for the Ukrainians or people living in Ukraine ?? This is where i would see provocation.
2) Very contradicting with your introduction arguing on the opportunity to take a stand for a video game studio. And your whole post in general where you are only arguing against the very idea of this thread existence on the basis that you do not support the point of view expressed and came to argue against it while at the same time complaining in advance that you will not be well received.
Apart from that to answer your point, it happened many time that some user came here and lied very poorly and it was so obvious that they were forced to explain themselves and couldn't do so, if you consider that makes them pro-Russian as a general idea, i agree with you, that's also my general impression but also i'm considering only the most dishonnest and/or ignorant people would disrepectfully post anti-Ukraine content in a thread called "we support Ukraine" on a video game forum, game made by people that say themselves they care for Ukraine so those direspectful users are not representative in my mind.
(Also you should read the thread instead of pretending you have read it, go page 5, first post , you would realize that your question has already been answered clearly)
3) The war end when the Russian soldier go back to their country of Russia and leave the Ukraine. This is because the Ukrainian soldier are already in Ukraine and this is where they belong, therefore it is the Russian soldier that need to go to the place where they belong, which is the Russian federation. My analysis is not very elaborate, some of the Russian soldier seem to obey the Russian chain of command, therefore it is likely that the move from the Russian soldier would be following a decision from the Russian governement that has to be taken by the head of the Russian federation. The war would end after that. But maybe the soldier would decide to go back to their home without receiving the order prior to that for reason like military defeat or not willing to continue a pointless war. As time goes Ukraine is receiving shipment of new modern weapons and training while Russia is becoming more isolated economically to the point where it impact the functionning of weapon factory which prevent them to replace many of the severe losses they already suffered by the Ukrainian defense. Ukraine said that Putin would never give the order that would spare all those lives and that instead they have to fight the Russian soldier off their territory which would be shorter if their allies would send more weapons.
4) click the link, it will open a new window , it's their website, and they answer your questions.
just in case :
https://redcross.org.ua/en/
5) I don't think discussing the future of politics in Russia is "a better way to have a discussion" about "the war in Ukraine". I wonder how the reconstruction will be for the poor Ukrainians whose towns where destroyed. I wonder about the future of politics in Ukraine, will they join the EU or NATO ? when ? but i don't think this is the correct forum to discuss about this according to the first post that launch this thread that i'm quoting again :
Please, keep the discussions about the world events (if you can't help it) specifically in threads related to this post, as we want to keep the rest of the forum on topic,
