Factorio Forums

mmmPI wrote: Sat Nov 11, 2023 5:17 pmYes i understand an like the design choice, the expansion is called space age, it involve something more modern, futuristic than the steam engine era of the pre rocket factorio, have you not understand it ?

I really like the rocket platform look for this reason, i'm pretty sure also they said in the FFF that there will be polishing of graphics.

It is cool that you like the concept and idea, but at the same time, that is just your opinion.


Space Construction Drone is modern and futuristic, ahead of where the engineer is in Factorio 1.0.

mmmPI wrote: Sat Nov 11, 2023 5:17 pmAlso adding construction drone to space would not change this at all. Are you taking it as a pretext to spam your disliking of the platform on purpose ?

We wouldn't have had a long conversation if you had not responded.

How did I generate a pretext? By making you post those comments?

mmmPI wrote: Sat Nov 11, 2023 5:17 pmI think your idea is terrible, it's much better as you say to abstract away the process of construction of the platform. Maybe you could explain more in detail how adding robots to the space platform will make its graphic look less modern and more to your liking while not changing gameplay compared to what's not yet revealed by adding an uncessary step for more immersion in the suggestion part of the forum because at this point as you say it's mostly about your idea, and much less about the FFF.

Abstracting the construction of the platform using space construction drones does not impact the gameplay (much like the abstraction of power poles on space platforms).

If anything, the Space Construction Drone's aesthetic would remain modern and futuristic with the additional benefit of addressing the Space Platform Construction issues; a sample of animation could be found at the beginning of FFF #382. Furthermore, the change would better inform the players where the raw construction materials are coming from.

XT-248 wrote: Sat Nov 11, 2023 11:28 pm

mmmPI wrote: Sat Nov 11, 2023 5:17 pmYes i understand an like the design choice, the expansion is called space age, it involve something more modern, futuristic than the steam engine era of the pre rocket factorio, have you not understand it ?

I really like the rocket platform look for this reason, i'm pretty sure also they said in the FFF that there will be polishing of graphics.

It is cool that you like the concept and idea, but at the same time, that is just your opinion.

Space Construction Drone is modern and futuristic, ahead of where the engineer is in Factorio 1.0.

I much prefer a self expanding and thick platform for immersion rather than flimsy drone expected to drop a tile, i think the choosen design convey well the thought that "the factory must grow" because it litterally grow ! Plus i think it really shows a continuity with the moving parts of the assembling machine, it has similarity in the way it moves but it also looks more advanced, so really fitting for a higher tech/space related thing.

Yes it's just my opinion, other people have posted similar opinion too which helped refined my first impression, your opinion is that there is a problem on the space platform, but i'm afraid we don't have all the informations that would allow to reach such conclusion namely to support the claim wether or not something has gameplay implications , it's only speculations about what will be in the expansion, whereas you explained in detail your proposition, of which i expressed my dislike about the gameplay implications. And i'm not sharing your opinion that space construction drone is modern and futuristic.

mmmPI wrote: Sat Nov 11, 2023 5:17 pmI think your idea is terrible, it's much better as you say to abstract away the process of construction of the platform. Maybe you could explain more in detail how adding robots to the space platform will make its graphic look less modern and more to your liking while not changing gameplay compared to what's not yet revealed by adding an uncessary step for more immersion in the suggestion part of the forum because at this point as you say it's mostly about your idea, and much less about the FFF.

Abstracting the construction of the platform using space construction drones does not impact the gameplay (much like the abstraction of power poles on space platforms).

If anything, the Space Construction Drone's aesthetic would remain modern and futuristic with the additional benefit of addressing the Space Platform Construction issues; a sample of animation could be found at the beginning of FFF #382. Furthermore, the change would better inform the players where the raw construction materials are coming from.
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Abstration of power poles on space platform actually does impact favorably the gameplay, making it slightly more convinient to build in space to make up for the remote building inconvenience i suppose.

I'm going to paste a quote from the FFF that i think you missed :

Without construction robots, do the things just magically appear on the platform?
Many things we show in FFFs these days are work in progress, including the space platform building visualizations.
Let me present the tiles building animation preview.

We will have something similar for entities too, so things won't magically appear, but it will be as though the platform is 'building' them by itself.

I express again my feeling that your suggestion to add space construction drone to prevent entities from magically appearing is in my opinion unecessary, and it would add annoying gameplay implications, as it would make the remote view "bad" if you forgot robots, which would undoubtedly happens in any game, such as forgotting a train refuel automation. It also does not fully provide a consistent explanation of why only space construction drone would exist and not space logisitic drone, it would make it seem an arbitrary limitation if you as a player can see some drone, but are unable to use some others, it's confusing.

mmmPI wrote: Sun Nov 12, 2023 12:29 amI much prefer a self expanding and thick platform for immersion rather than flimsy drone expected to drop a tile, i think the choosen design convey well the thought that "the factory must grow" because it litterally grow ! Plus i think it really shows a continuity with the moving parts of the assembling machine, it has similarity in the way it moves but it also looks more advanced, so really fitting for a higher tech/space related thing.

Yes it's just my opinion, other people have posted similar opinion too which helped refined my first impression, your opinion is that there is a problem on the space platform, but i'm afraid we don't have all the informations that would allow to reach such conclusion namely to support the claim wether or not something has gameplay implications , it's only speculations about what will be in the expansion, whereas you explained in detail your proposition, of which i expressed my dislike about the gameplay implications. And i'm not sharing your opinion that space construction drone is modern and futuristic.

Flimsy and drop: You deliberately picked those adjectives to portray Space Construction Drones poorly.

Look at what the Nauvis Construction Drone can do: simultaneously place and build 4 oil refineries. I would not intently make Space Construction Drones more flimsy or incapable than the Nauvis Construction Drone.


We do have the necessary information to know what the space platform's construction looks like. It doesn't fit in the overall theme of a Factorio Engineer who just launched a rocket to place a Space Platform. You are also speculating that adding drones may have gameplay implications even though it shouldn't have any, given what we already know about space platform gameplay.


Space Construction Drones are not modern and futuristic? I hate to break the news to you, but it is. Just glance at various Sci-Fi works (including but not limited to modern/futuristic ones), and you will find them everywhere.

Furthermore, in-real-life drones in development will catch space debris and drag them out of orbit. They would have to be rugged to catch and drag down space debris.

mmmPI wrote: Sun Nov 12, 2023 12:29 amAbstration of power poles on space platform actually does impact favorably the gameplay, making it slightly more convinient to build in space to make up for the remote building inconvenience i suppose.

You are so close. Space Construction Drones will abstract the construction process in the same way power poles are abstracted.

mmmPI wrote: Sun Nov 12, 2023 12:29 amI'm going to paste a quote from the FFF that i think you missed :

Without construction robots, do the things just magically appear on the platform?
Many things we show in FFFs these days are work in progress, including the space platform building visualizations.
Let me present the tiles building animation preview.

We will have something similar for entities too, so things won't magically appear, but it will be as though the platform is 'building' them by itself.

What makes you think I was unaware?

It is precisely for this reason I am coming here to give constructive feedback, which has turned into a longer conversation.

mmmPI wrote: Sun Nov 12, 2023 12:29 amI express again my feeling that your suggestion to add space construction drone to prevent entities from magically appearing is in my opinion unecessary, and it would add annoying gameplay implications, as it would make the remote view "bad" if you forgot robots, which would undoubtedly happens in any game, such as forgotting a train refuel automation. It also does not fully provide a consistent explanation of why only space construction drone would exist and not space logisitic drone, it would make it seem an arbitrary limitation if you as a player can see some drone, but are unable to use some others, it's confusing.

Space Platform can make logistic network requests to rocket silos on worlds. Then rocket silos will send the requested items (Space Construction Drones included).


You can always set it to have a minimum number of space construction drones from Nauvis and other planets. Problem solved.

This is assuming that WUBE went down the route where Space Construction Drones are physical products players must manufacture. Otherwise, this falls under the category: "If it is too tedious or not fun, abstract it."

XT-248 wrote: Sun Nov 12, 2023 5:39 am Flimsy and drop: You deliberately picked those adjectives to portray Space Construction Drones poorly.

I deliberatly picked those adjectives because they describe your suggestion in my opinion.
I much prefer a self expanding and thick platform for immersion rather than flimsy drone expected to drop a tile, i think the choosen design convey well the thought that "the factory must grow" because it litterally grow ! Plus i think it really shows a continuity with the moving parts of the assembling machine, it has similarity in the way it moves but it also looks more advanced, so really fitting for a higher tech/space related thing.

XT-248 wrote: Sun Nov 12, 2023 5:39 am We do have the necessary information to know what the space platform's construction looks like.

No this is wrong

XT-248 wrote: Sun Nov 12, 2023 5:39 am

mmmPI wrote: Sun Nov 12, 2023 12:29 amI'm going to paste a quote from the FFF that i think you missed :

Without construction robots, do the things just magically appear on the platform?
Many things we show in FFFs these days are work in progress, including the space platform building visualizations.
Let me present the tiles building animation preview.

We will have something similar for entities too, so things won't magically appear, but it will be as though the platform is 'building' them by itself.

What makes you think I was unaware?

It is precisely for this reason I am coming here to give constructive feedback, which has turned into a longer conversation.

What makes me think you are unaware is you say wrong thing such as the sentence i quoted just before. No you don't have all informations it is literally written in the FFF that you are not shown the graphixs for entity growing. And you ridiculously suggest something to adress something you don't have information on yet.

If you are aware that entity won't magically appear why would you propose a very bad and inconsistent way of making entity not magically appear ?

To me it just seem you are proposing this out of sheer lack of informations, and can't accept that your idea lead to poor gameplay in other people opinion.

The look of the platform is great, and i suppose the entity "growing" will look great too, much better than the idea that small little flying drone can drop thick tile like the spaceplatform.

Again i think your suggestion is very bad, it doesn't adress any real problem that is not only in your mind due to lack of information it seems to me. And it woud adress it very poorly.

Thus the more i think of it the more i am convinced there is absolutly nothing positive in your suggestion for the factorio game in general.

Edit : not sure why you keep trying to convince me with specific argument trying to adress my objections (unconvincingly) rather than doing a suggestion where it wouldn't feel like joining a heated debate for other people that could think like you do.

mmmPI wrote: Sun Nov 12, 2023 7:13 am I deliberatly picked those adjectives because they describe your suggestion in my opinion.

I much prefer a self expanding and thick platform for immersion rather than flimsy drone expected to drop a tile, i think the choosen design convey well the thought that "the factory must grow" because it litterally grow ! Plus i think it really shows a continuity with the moving parts of the assembling machine, it has similarity in the way it moves but it also looks more advanced, so really fitting for a higher tech/space related thing.

The keyword here is your opinion.

That is not how people use the continuity word. Continuity ensures that nothing stands out between different parts (say, in a movie).

For instance, in the movie Gladiator's original release, there is discontinuity where you can see people wearing Jean pants and a scene where you can see a gas canister attached to a chariot. Those details break the continuity of the movie.


The Assembler's animations are far more solid and less fluid/nanite. The two objects, assemblers/space platforms, only have a role to serve in growing the factory; that is where the similarity ends. The linked mp4 has a running assembler on the space platform, and the animation/details speak for itself.

mmmPI wrote: Sun Nov 12, 2023 7:13 am

XT-248 wrote: Sun Nov 12, 2023 5:39 am We do have the necessary information to know what the space platform's construction looks like.

No this is wrong

So, did WUBE post this in FFF #382? Or not?

This animated picture, linked below, is sufficient to form a first impression despite being a work in progress. You will have to explain your logic on this one.

mmmPI wrote: Sun Nov 12, 2023 7:13 amWhat makes me think you are unaware is you say wrong thing such as the sentence i quoted just before. No you don't have all informations it is literally written in the FFF that you are not shown the graphixs for entity growing. And you ridiculously suggest something to adress something you don't have information on yet.

If you are aware that entity won't magically appear why would you propose a very bad and inconsistent way of making entity not magically appear ?

To me it just seem you are proposing this out of sheer lack of informations, and can't accept that your idea lead to poor gameplay in other people opinion.

The look of the platform is great, and i suppose the entity "growing" will look great too, much better than the idea that small little flying drone can drop thick tile like the spaceplatform.

Again i think your suggestion is very bad, it doesn't adress any real problem that is not only in your mind due to lack of information it seems to me. And it woud adress it very poorly.

Thus the more i think of it the more i am convinced there is absolutly nothing positive in your suggestion for the factorio game in general.

Edit : not sure why you keep trying to convince me with specific argument trying to adress my objections (unconvincingly) rather than doing a suggestion where it wouldn't feel like joining a heated debate for other people that could think like you do.

See above for the first impression of the space platform's construction.


I'm afraid I have to disagree; it already looks like a new space platform will appear next to a space platform without a clear source of where it is coming from.


Poor gameplay, in your opinion. I already made myself clear multiple times: anything that is tedious or not fun can be abstracted to make this work.


Nothing positive in my idea? The positive aspect is to show the players where the construction raw material is coming from.

During a break from factory stuff, I enjoy watching drones flying around and doing their things on Nauvis. How is that a negative thing in space in a factory simulation?

XT-248 wrote: Tue Nov 14, 2023 2:34 pm The keyword here is your opinion.

As is everything you've posted, so it would be better to just make a post in the Ideas and Suggestions subform as has been suggested to you multiple times rather than spamming this thread with your distaste for the devs idea of no bots of any kind in space.

XT-248 wrote: Tue Nov 14, 2023 2:34 pm

mmmPI wrote: Sun Nov 12, 2023 7:13 am I deliberatly picked those adjectives because they describe your suggestion in my opinion.

I much prefer a self expanding and thick platform for immersion rather than flimsy drone expected to drop a tile, i think the choosen design convey well the thought that "the factory must grow" because it litterally grow ! Plus i think it really shows a continuity with the moving parts of the assembling machine, it has similarity in the way it moves but it also looks more advanced, so really fitting for a higher tech/space related thing.

The keyword here is your opinion.

That is not how people use the continuity word. Continuity ensures that nothing stands out between different parts (say, in a movie).

In my opinion the design of the space platform self expanding is in the continuity with the assembling machine design because they fit together, it doesn't look like one was done following other reasonning or philosophy, or drawing/animation technique, only more refined, they fit well, one look like the following of the other without any way to tell the cut, like in movie.

Sorry if it's not the proper way to use to word, at least you seem to have the idea.

XT-248 wrote: Fri Jan 02, 1970 11:12 pm

mmmPI wrote: Sun Nov 12, 2023 7:13 am

XT-248 wrote: Sun Nov 12, 2023 5:39 am We do have the necessary information to know what the space platform's construction looks like.

No this is wrong

This animated picture, linked below, is sufficient to form a first impression despite being a work in progress. You will have to explain your logic on this one.

My logic is that you propose robots to make entity not magically appear, which is because you haven't seen yet entity self building. Plus proposing robots to replace the existing animation for the space platform is wanky because it's supposed to add immersion and not change gameplay but the platform is super thick so it's bad for immersion to imagine small robots dropping tile and it's immediatly working, as you mentionned yourself is the case for the refinery already, so why add more unimmersive things, while pretending it's to be more immersive than something you haven't seen yet ? Also suggestion that are only personnal taste and add nothing to gameplay are not very significant because personnal taste are personnal. But your suggestion changes gameplay, because it force players to never forget to add robots or be unable to use remote view. It's very bad gamepay, it's like putting a nail pointing up in your living room and walking bare foot, sometimes it randomly hurts when you forgot the nail, otherwise it does nothing. Except of course if you like the look of pointy stuff, if that's the only argument it's just equivalent to "i would have prefered this just because this is my preference". And it's not convincing me to try your personnal taste , especially when some of your arguments are "but it doesnt happen often", when clearly it does happen all the time that individual playing videogame forgot things like power pole or inserter and will forgot to bring robots one time in every game involving many of them. All that to replace an animation you haven't seen yet x)

Also for immersion you suddenly introduce a question many player will ask : why can't i use logisitic drone, if i can use construction drone in space ? It's much better to not have anyrobots.

Also we still have no information on the repairing, so it would be even worse if you have space drone that can only construct but not repair.

XT-248 wrote: Tue Nov 14, 2023 2:34 pm I'm afraid I have to disagree; it already looks like a new space platform will appear next to a space platform without a clear source of where it is coming from.
Poor gameplay, in your opinion. I already made myself clear multiple times: anything that is tedious or not fun can be abstracted to make this work.
Nothing positive in my idea? The positive aspect is to show the players where the construction raw material is coming from.
During a break from factory stuff, I enjoy watching drones flying around and doing their things on Nauvis. How is that a negative thing in space in a factory simulation?

The material come from the space platform hub. If you have any doubt, please explain between what.

I think Wube already abtracted the process of adding drones to the platform so it could build itself from remote view because it's tedious and not fun. You think it would look nice, i much prefer waiting to see the animation of the entity growing when it's no longer WIP. Hopefully they won't force every player to add robots which would lead to inevitable occurence where one forget and you need to send a rocket just for a few robots. I think they even added remotely fueling train.

I said i found nothing positive in your idea, you would prefer drones even without seeing any concept art of idea of what space drone would look like, over something that we haven't seen either yet for the entity growing. That's not a positive to me. that's not something i weight in, i just ignore that it's irrationnal argument.

i don't need visual feedback from where the material come from, since they can only be in 1 place there is no chest on the platform, but if so i'd rather have a mechanical arm that extend from the space platform hub, similar of the arms that catch the asteroid, ( continuity ? ).

Maybe you could post your idea in mod request if you want to watch drone flying around when you take a break, something like a few drone flying around you at all time, companion drone is a mod , maybe you could have it flying. The robots on the plaform would be flying very rarely unless you reconstruct your platform all the time no ?

FuryoftheStars wrote: Tue Nov 14, 2023 2:59 pmAs is everything you've posted, so it would be better to just make a post in the Ideas and Suggestions subform as has been suggested to you multiple times rather than spamming this thread with your distaste for the devs idea of no bots of any kind in space.

I thought that was supposed to be your last time commenting on this subject.

FuryoftheStars wrote: Thu Nov 02, 2023 5:34 pmThis all is derailing too far, so this'll be the last I'm going to say about this subject.

*snipped*

I don't see it that way but rather the correct way to think of it, at least from my perspective, as a discourse or dialogue between fans in a blog's thread about the blog's content.

If we had so much going on in this single blog thread, the odds are pretty good that some of the same dialogues would have been repeated in the suggestion forum. It is better to keep all of the conversations in one place instead of spread across several threads.

mmmPI wrote: Tue Nov 14, 2023 4:24 pmIn my opinion the design of the space platform self expanding is in the continuity with the assembling machine design because they fit together, it doesn't look like one was done following other reasonning or philosophy, or drawing/animation technique, only more refined, they fit well, one look like the following of the other without any way to tell the cut, like in movie.

Sorry if it's not the proper way to use to word, at least you seem to have the idea.

Assembler and space platform service different roles: one makes things, and the other expands the building space for more faculties.

I'm not convinced they serve a continuity beyond being distinct cogs in a mega-factory. Even the animated space science pack assembler III, in the linked picture from an earlier post, stands apart from the space platform where it is from a perspective of visual design.

mmmPI wrote: Tue Nov 14, 2023 4:24 pmMy logic is that you propose robots to make entity not magically appear, which is because you haven't seen yet entity self building. Plus proposing robots to replace the existing animation for the space platform is wanky because it's supposed to add immersion and not change gameplay but the platform is super thick so it's bad for immersion to imagine small robots dropping tile and it's immediatly working, as you mentionned yourself is the case for the refinery already, so why add more unimmersive things, while pretending it's to be more immersive than something you haven't seen yet ? Also suggestion that are only personnal taste and add nothing to gameplay are not very significant because personnal taste are personnal. But your suggestion changes gameplay, because it force players to never forget to add robots or be unable to use remote view. It's very bad gamepay, it's like putting a nail pointing up in your living room and walking bare foot, sometimes it randomly hurts when you forgot the nail, otherwise it does nothing. Except of course if you like the look of pointy stuff, if that's the only argument it's just equivalent to "i would have prefered this just because this is my preference". And it's not convincing me to try your personnal taste , especially when some of your arguments are "but it doesnt happen often", when clearly it does happen all the time that individual playing videogame forgot things like power pole or inserter and will forgot to bring robots one time in every game involving many of them. All that to replace an animation you haven't seen yet x)

Most of this has already been covered in previous posts as counter-arguments. I am starting to think that you are less interested in meaningful two-way dialogue and more trying to be that guy who would not stop repeating "aboutism" arguments.

I will address the last point one more time: forgetting drones can be set as logistic requests if a space platform loses a drone. It will pick up extra drones at the next stop with them in stock. The space platform remembers the logistic requests for you. I will re-link the same picture from an earlier instance when I pointed this out.

mmmPI wrote: Tue Nov 14, 2023 4:24 pmAlso for immersion you suddenly introduce a question many player will ask : why can't i use logisitic drone, if i can use construction drone in space ? It's much better to not have anyrobots.

This is a repeated argument that adds nothing new to this conversation.

Planet-bounded Roboport has AIR-flying frame logistic and construction drones.

Space-bounded Space Platform Hub has JET-airless-flying frame construction drones without a logistic equivalent.

mmmPI wrote: Tue Nov 14, 2023 4:24 pmAlso we still have no information on the repairing, so it would be even worse if you have space drone that can only construct but not repair.

Wow, I didn't know that construction drones couldn't repair. The only problem is that they can do repairs. Furthermore, it was a point of contention not to add drones because they are dumb and will fly into flame to repair walls in an earlier post from you.

Wiki Factorio Construction Robot wrote:They repair damaged entities using repair packs.

Source: https://wiki.factorio.com/Construction_robot

mmmPI wrote: Tue Nov 14, 2023 4:24 pmThe material come from the space platform hub. If you have any doubt, please explain between what.

It is simple: I have already explained this sequence of steps several times to you.

Space Platform production lines on Nauvis manufacture more space platforms -> logistics -> Rocket Silo inside of a rocket.

Space Platform makes logistic requests for more space platforms > Rocket Silo receives a logistic request, then launch a rocket to Space Platform and deposits the incoming Space Platform into the Hub's inventory.

So far, no issues.

Players enter the remote view and place more blueprints to expand the Space Platform size -> ??? -> ??? -> ??? -> Poof, the Space Platform appears out of other Space Platforms.

That is where the problem begins. The construction animation doesn't have any continuity between being in the Hub's inventory and being constructed.

mmmPI wrote: Tue Nov 14, 2023 4:24 pmI think Wube already abtracted the process of adding drones to the platform so it could build itself from remote view because it's tedious and not fun. You think it would look nice, i much prefer waiting to see the animation of the entity growing when it's no longer WIP. Hopefully they won't force every player to add robots which would lead to inevitable occurence where one forget and you need to send a rocket just for a few robots. I think they even added remotely fueling train.

How many times have I explained the same concept? "Anything that is not fun or tedious will be abstracted," and you are acting like it can't even be abstracted.

Oh yeah, forgetting drones: see the linked orbital requests earlier in my post; that will remember for you.

mmmPI wrote: Tue Nov 14, 2023 4:24 pmI said i found nothing positive in your idea, you would prefer drones even without seeing any concept art of idea of what space drone would look like, over something that we haven't seen either yet for the entity growing. That's not a positive to me. that's not something i weight in, i just ignore that it's irrationnal argument.

i don't need visual feedback from where the material come from, since they can only be in 1 place there is no chest on the platform, but if so i'd rather have a mechanical arm that extend from the space platform hub, similar of the arms that catch the asteroid, ( continuity ? ).

I gave you several positives, but you shot them all down as "negative" points.

What is the point of giving you anything positive if you are going to describe all of it as thin, flimsy, hateful, irrational, and other negative adjectives that I forget are being used?

Would you say the same thing if WUBE had come out with a Space Construction Drone instead of what they went with? Would you still describe it as a bad idea? What if your favorite modder decided to make it a mandatory part of their mod? Would you still use the mod?

XT-248 wrote: Tue Nov 14, 2023 6:44 pm I don't see it that way but rather the correct way to think of it, at least from my perspective, as a discourse or dialogue between fans in a blog's thread about the blog's content.

If we had so much going on in this single blog thread, the odds are pretty good that some of the same dialogues would have been repeated in the suggestion forum. It is better to keep all of the conversations in one place instead of spread across several threads.

Heavy in-depth discussion of one aspect of a FFF should really be divulged off into its own forum thread, and especially where it's an attempt at suggesting an alternative... well, that's exactly what the Ideas and Suggestions subforum is for. As it stands, if anyone wants to say or discuss anything else, it's gonna get lost in this.

You just start a new thread in the suggestions forum, then post a link to it here for anyone who's actually interested in following the discussion to then follow to the new thread. It's been done before. And it's better to have the discussions where they belong for purposes of getting the right attention and visibility, not just where ever they started.

XT-248 wrote: Tue Nov 14, 2023 6:44 pm

mmmPI wrote: Tue Nov 14, 2023 4:24 pmMy logic is that you propose robots to make entity not magically appear, which is because you haven't seen yet entity self building. Plus proposing robots to replace the existing animation for the space platform is wanky because it's supposed to add immersion and not change gameplay but the platform is super thick so it's bad for immersion to imagine small robots dropping tile and it's immediatly working, as you mentionned yourself is the case for the refinery already, so why add more unimmersive things, while pretending it's to be more immersive than something you haven't seen yet ? Also suggestion that are only personnal taste and add nothing to gameplay are not very significant because personnal taste are personnal. But your suggestion changes gameplay, because it force players to never forget to add robots or be unable to use remote view. It's very bad gamepay, it's like putting a nail pointing up in your living room and walking bare foot, sometimes it randomly hurts when you forgot the nail, otherwise it does nothing. Except of course if you like the look of pointy stuff, if that's the only argument it's just equivalent to "i would have prefered this just because this is my preference". And it's not convincing me to try your personnal taste , especially when some of your arguments are "but it doesnt happen often", when clearly it does happen all the time that individual playing videogame forgot things like power pole or inserter and will forgot to bring robots one time in every game involving many of them. All that to replace an animation you haven't seen yet x)

Most of this has already been covered in previous posts as counter-arguments. I am starting to think that you are less interested in meaningful two-way dialogue and more trying to be that guy who would not stop repeating "aboutism" arguments.

I will address the last point one more time: forgetting drones can be set as logistic requests if a space platform loses a drone. It will pick up extra drones at the next stop with them in stock. The space platform remembers the logistic requests for you. I will re-link the same picture from an earlier instance when I pointed this out.

That's not adressing anything, you just confirmed that your suggestion is indeed going to cause people to forget robot and need to send rocket to the platform to fix that.

That's one reason your suggestion is very bad, that's also showing why you are dishonnest because you just said earlier it doesn't change gameplay. But really it makes remote view worse. You said the tedious and no fun should be abstracted, your suggestion propose de-abstracting part of what was for that reason imo.

XT-248 wrote: Tue Nov 14, 2023 6:44 pm

mmmPI wrote: Tue Nov 14, 2023 4:24 pmAlso for immersion you suddenly introduce a question many player will ask : why can't i use logisitic drone, if i can use construction drone in space ? It's much better to not have anyrobots.

This is a repeated argument that adds nothing new to this conversation.

Your only argument is your personnal taste preference between something you haven't seen over something else you haven't seen.

You can't adress the fact that you propose to create a situation that is bad for immersion where it leaves the question open why no logi drone ? how would the situation you propose be better for immersion since it's purpose ? isnt that what you are pretending ? more immersion ? yet it leads to less. That's an argument for me, your proposal is bad because it doesn't adress the point it pretend to do.

XT-248 wrote: Tue Nov 14, 2023 6:44 pm

mmmPI wrote: Tue Nov 14, 2023 4:24 pmAlso we still have no information on the repairing, so it would be even worse if you have space drone that can only construct but not repair.

Wow, I didn't know that construction drones couldn't repair. The only problem is that they can do repairs. Furthermore, it was a point of contention not to add drones because they are dumb and will fly into flame to repair walls in an earlier post from you.

Indeed you pretend it doesn't change gameplay but you also admit you have no reason to claim that because you have no idea how the repair are done. And not only because it lead to the need to send rockets with robots everytime or not be able to use the remote view ( no fun ).

XT-248 wrote: Tue Nov 14, 2023 6:44 pm It is simple: I have already explained this sequence of steps several times to you.
Space Platform production lines on Nauvis manufacture more space platforms -> logistics -> Rocket Silo inside of a rocket.
Space Platform makes logistic requests for more space platforms > Rocket Silo receives a logistic request, then launch a rocket to Space Platform and deposits the incoming Space Platform into the Hub's inventory.
So far, no issues
Players enter the remote view and place more blueprints to expand the Space Platform size -> ??? -> ??? -> ??? -> Poof, the Space Platform appears out of other Space Platforms.
That is where the problem begins. The construction animation doesn't have any continuity between being in the Hub's inventory and being constructed.

I think one person must be pretty stupid to think the material come from somewhere else than the space hub inventory when the platform expand. I don't know how else to say.
I asked between what and what could you be doubting for the source of material, but you didn't answer, you can't doubt when there is only 1 option.

Also you have no idea what you are talking about, maybe the platform will form a wave of nanites to show the movement of the material toward the entity when it's built, maybe some holes will be opening in the plaftorm revealing tunnels coming from the hub hidden in the thick platform with little robots on the inside bringing the material to grow an entity at the location of the hole. Maybe a robotic arm is prepared that would look like those already existing to drop some material that will grow into an entity from the hub.

You just keep saying the visual we haven't seen yet is not to your personnal taste, because you prefer the visual of space bot.... Yeah it's going to be hard to convince anyone when there is no visual for your robots no ?

XT-248 wrote: Tue Nov 14, 2023 6:44 pm

mmmPI wrote: Tue Nov 14, 2023 4:24 pmI think Wube already abtracted the process of adding drones to the platform so it could build itself from remote view because it's tedious and not fun. You think it would look nice, i much prefer waiting to see the animation of the entity growing when it's no longer WIP. Hopefully they won't force every player to add robots which would lead to inevitable occurence where one forget and you need to send a rocket just for a few robots. I think they even added remotely fueling train.

How many times have I explained the same concept? "Anything that is not fun or tedious will be abstracted," and you are acting like it can't even be abstracted.

Oh yeah, forgetting drones: see the linked orbital requests earlier in my post; that will remember for you.

You keep repeating the same thing in all your post, you don't like the animation we haven't seen, you prefer drones we haven't seen either because they are more immersive.
You just said earlier than drone would be forgotten by player and necessitate extra cliking after you realize it's the case to send some new drones to space for them to move around when you do a break. I think your suggestion can be abstracted because it's no fun and tedious. Not immersive too. It has nothing really going for it.

XT-248 wrote: Tue Nov 14, 2023 6:44 pm

mmmPI wrote: Tue Nov 14, 2023 4:24 pmI said i found nothing positive in your idea, you would prefer drones even without seeing any concept art of idea of what space drone would look like, over something that we haven't seen either yet for the entity growing. That's not a positive to me. that's not something i weight in, i just ignore that it's irrationnal argument.

i don't need visual feedback from where the material come from, since they can only be in 1 place there is no chest on the platform, but if so i'd rather have a mechanical arm that extend from the space platform hub, similar of the arms that catch the asteroid, ( continuity ? ).

I gave you several positives, but you shot them all down as "negative" points.

What is the point of giving you anything positive if you are going to describe all of it as thin, flimsy, hateful, irrational, and other negative adjectives that I forget are being used?

Would you say the same thing if WUBE had come out with a Space Construction Drone instead of what they went with? Would you still describe it as a bad idea? What if your favorite modder decided to make it a mandatory part of their mod? Would you still use the mod?

I don't know you keep sayng you dislike the space platform construction animation but we haven't seen it yet, the ony argument being because you want drone in space. But you don't provide any positive point. It's not like there were images that you could say i prefer the way this look rather than this. It wouldn't matter much since that's just a personnal opinion. I think it is irrationnal to say you prefer the drones visually over the existing but yet undisclosed animation of entity growing.

You keep saying the visual are "wrong" that there are "problems" that's just your personnal opinion, for anyone who disagree you don't have any argument that's convincing. It's not immersive , nor nice-looking, nor better gameplay, all the contrary.

Also WE DON'T KNOW HOW THE ENTITY WILL LOOK LIKE WHEN GROWING so your question "instead of what they went with" ? is to me utterly ridiculous, it shows to me a clear lack of understanding and refusal to acknowledge that we don't know. It's ridiculous to expect i would prefer your idea that has no visual over something we are yet to discover. It's irrationnal to express preference like that to me.

I don't know what you expect from a diaolgue between fans of the game, i don't want to pretend i'm liking your suggestion if to me it's terrible, i'm shooting down all your argument as negative because that's how i feel about it. NOTHING is good.

FuryoftheStars wrote: Tue Nov 14, 2023 7:59 pm

XT-248 wrote: Tue Nov 14, 2023 6:44 pm I don't see it that way but rather the correct way to think of it, at least from my perspective, as a discourse or dialogue between fans in a blog's thread about the blog's content.

If we had so much going on in this single blog thread, the odds are pretty good that some of the same dialogues would have been repeated in the suggestion forum. It is better to keep all of the conversations in one place instead of spread across several threads.

Heavy in-depth discussion of one aspect of a FFF should really be divulged off into its own forum thread, and especially where it's an attempt at suggesting an alternative... well, that's exactly what the Ideas and Suggestions subforum is for. As it stands, if anyone wants to say or discuss anything else, it's gonna get lost in this.

You just start a new thread in the suggestions forum, then post a link to it here for anyone who's actually interested in following the discussion to then follow to the new thread. It's been done before. And it's better to have the discussions where they belong for purposes of getting the right attention and visibility, not just where ever they started.

I can only agree with fury here. From my perspective as i stated earlier :

mmmPI wrote: Sat Nov 11, 2023 4:03 am My impression is that 10 person say it look nice, and one person say 10 times it doesn't. And you are that person that keep repeating its opinion. You did it again, several time saying it as a general thing.

I would be suprised someone who come to say it look nice would come to say it again, and again repeatdly, whereas someone who dislike it may think it's logical to keep repeating its opinion until things changes even if it's not constructive and it could stay forever if things don't change.

i think your suggestion is a terrible idea, this is my opinion, it's terrible because it pretend to "make more sense/make it more visible where the material come from", which is hardly necessary, i mean comon there is only 1 hub, where would the material come from ? It adds nothing from gameplay perspective, it forces player to do repetetive thing, always put a little few robots in the platform, it can yield to terrible behavior due to bots simple logic when taking damage and space supposedly a dangerous environment. It is something that you can only forget to do and have bad consequences, but there is no strategy or optimisation or any sense of agency when doing it, you just click a few buttons mindlessly because the game told you to.

Maybe you should post in the suggestion part of the forum, though because that's just my opinion, if you think i didn't explain properly why i think it's a terrible idea i can explain with more details.

mmmPI wrote: Tue Nov 14, 2023 4:24 pm It's very bad gamepay, it's like putting a nail pointing up in your living room and walking bare foot, sometimes it randomly hurts when you forgot the nail, otherwise it does nothing. Except of course if you like the look of pointy stuff, if that's the only argument it's just equivalent to "i would have prefered this just because this is my preference". And it's not convincing me to try your personnal taste , especially when some of your arguments are "but it doesnt happen often", when clearly it does happen all the time that individual playing videogame forgot things like power pole or inserter and will forgot to bring robots one time in every game involving many of them. All that to replace an animation you haven't seen yet x)

Maybe you could post your idea in mod request if you want to watch drone flying around when you take a break, something like a few drone flying around you at all time, companion drone is a mod , maybe you could have it flying. The robots on the plaform would be flying very rarely unless you reconstruct your platform all the time no ?