Factorio Forums

Khyron wrote: Bots should not be in combat situations. That is part of the challenge of the game.

No, that is just how you prefer to play.

Adamo wrote:No, that is just how you prefer to play.

No, I'm speaking strictly in terms of how the game is currently configured. It is disadvantageous to risk your logistics and construction drones in a combat situation. Similarly, it is disadvantageous to risk most other player constructions, such as an inserter or assembling machine. The game provides other objects for protection, such as walls and turrets.

Losing drones is counter to the objective of the game. You are of course free to risk them as you see fit, whether rationally (for some grander purpose) or irrationally.

Therefor what you're asking for is a game balance change. That it is an outright advantage for the player is not a justification for the change. That would be no more valid than stating that the player should only take half as much damage from biters. It is unsubstantiated. You continue to avoid explaining why you think this change is needed, and evidently from the other responses in this thread it is not a commonly held belief that there is a problem in this area.

Adamo wrote:

Khyron wrote: Bots should not be in combat situations. That is part of the challenge of the game.

No, that is just how you prefer to play.

And this is just how you prefer to play.

keyboardhack wrote:Why is this needed. Is it not preferable to get the items when they are ready instead of in bulks?

Except in a combat situation, you often don't get them, the drones come in one by one and get killed before any of them can give you anything.

I doubt basic robots should get any better than they are, the already have too much magic in them considering what they are.

Moving items in batches rather than one by one could be achieved by simply splitting request slider in two:
1. If number of items is below the limit defined by first one - start requesting.
2. If the number of items is above the limit set by second slider - stop requests.

If robot group splits because some of the items are accessible nearby and some are far away, that the player's planning mistake.
In this respect, the ability to tweak coverage zones of roboports and logistic network connections would be nice.

Anything related to non-combat robots performing combat drops, like sending multiple builders to the same ghost so that at least one of them gets through, is highly questionable.

Adil wrote:I doubt basic robots should get any better than they are, the already have too much magic in them considering what they are.

You will find that my suggestions regarding robots have a general theme of moving us away from magic. There's no reason to use magic, in my view, when simple decision making algorithms can serve better while also being more realistic.

immibis wrote: And this is just how you prefer to play.

I'm not discussing my play style. I am suggesting an additional behavior for robots.

Khyron wrote:No, I'm speaking strictly in terms of how the game is currently configured.

It seems silly to settle on a configuration during an alpha, when it's already stated that much of the behavior is stopgap, and will be replaced with a more well-thought-out behavior in a later development cycle.

Khyron wrote:It is disadvantageous to risk your logistics and construction drones in a combat situation.

There is always risk, but with this small tweak, that risk can be somewhat mitigated, allowing for greater strategic possibilities. It really seems you are stuck on your play style and refuse to view this with an open mind. I can only hope that the developers are not so stubborn.

Khyron wrote:The game provides other objects for protection, such as walls and turrets.

Yes, and these should be used for protection. I am saying that the bots should behave better when they encounter a combat zone, not that they should be used for defense (although, if someone wanted to use them for defense, and found a way, more power to them).

Khyron wrote:Losing drones is counter to the objective of the game. You are of course free to risk them as you see fit, whether rationally (for some grander purpose) or irrationally.

Agreed. This is why bots should have better behavior in combat zones.

Khyron wrote:Therefor what you're asking for is a game balance change.

Yes, I see no reason it couldn't be viewed this way. Are you suggesting that balancing regarding logistic robots is decided and closed, already? It's an alpha.

Adil wrote:Anything related to non-combat robots performing combat drops, like sending multiple builders to the same ghost so that at least one of them gets through, is highly questionable.

To be clear, I am not suggesting that multiple bots be put on the same job. I am suggesting that when a bot encounters a combat zone, it should know to group with other bots, so they enter the zone as a group, rather than one at a time.

bobingabout wrote:Except in a combat situation, you often don't get them, the drones come in one by one and get killed before any of them can give you anything.

Yes, exactly.

deleted the following 4 post due to user request, cause where joined into this -- ßilk

Adamo wrote:It seems silly to settle on a configuration during an alpha, when it's already stated that much of the behavior is stopgap, and will be replaced with a more well-thought-out behavior in a later development cycle.

With iterative development you only make changes where they're needed.

Adamo wrote:

Khyron wrote: Losing drones is counter to the objective of the game. You are of course free to risk them as you see fit, whether rationally (for some grander purpose) or irrationally.

Agreed. This is why bots should have better behavior in combat zones.

That is not a reason. It is a conclusion without supporting evidence.

TBH I'm done with this thread. Until you give practical evidence of why this change is needed the discussion won't move forward. I'm quite sure that any situation where a group of drones needs to fly to a certain small area which has enemies nearby is a problem of the player's making.

• If the drones are moving items to or from a chest, or to the player: the area should have been defended with walls/turrets. The player has made a decision not to build walls/turrets and is now suffering the consequences.
• If the drones being use offensively to build structures near a biter nest: the player is engaged in an activity which the devs have stated they want to discourage or prevent. There's nothing to stop the player making a calculated risk that such an activity is the best way forward, but requesting changes that make that activity more favourable is clearly not a direction the devs want to take the game.

To have any effect on the game, your proposal requires multiple drones to operate concurrently in a small area, and I believe those two situations above are the only circumstances where that happens. I'm happy to be corrected if you can explain a scenario, but to date you've refused to do so.