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Re: Balance of Marathon Death world
Posted: Tue Jul 30, 2019 3:38 pm
by Koub
@OP : You might be interested with the 0.17.60 release notes, and the devs' explanations :
viewtopic.php?p=446415#p446415
Re: Balance of Marathon Death world
Posted: Fri Aug 02, 2019 3:36 pm
by kitters
0.17.60
- Deathworld marathon preset was made a little bit easier.
Interestinng if this topic caused these changes?
Now DM != D+M.
(c) Enemy evolution time factor is set to 150 (from 200), pollution factor is set to 10 (from 12). Attack cost modifier is set to 80% (from 50%).
Did you talk about this comment? Bilka = Dev? Or are there another comments why they did it? (not what exactly they did)
Re: Balance of Marathon Death world
Posted: Fri Aug 02, 2019 7:59 pm
by jodokus31
kitters wrote: Fri Aug 02, 2019 3:36 pm
0.17.60
- Deathworld marathon preset was made a little bit easier.
Interestinng if this topic caused these changes?
Now DM != D+M.
(c) Enemy evolution time factor is set to 150 (from 200), pollution factor is set to 10 (from 12). Attack cost modifier is set to 80% (from 50%).
Did you talk about this comment? Bilka = Dev? Or are there another comments why they did it? (not what exactly they did)
I don't know why they did it, probably because of this post.
Just for info, in case you are not aware: the map settings remain in an already started game. If you start a new map, new settings are used, but you can also change them back to old settings, if you think they were good.
Re: Balance of Marathon Death world
Posted: Sat Aug 03, 2019 11:29 am
by BlueTemplar
I have to say, that, since I've started my game on 0.17.0, my game settings also don't have this :
FactorioBot wrote: Thu Mar 14, 2019 6:44 pm
Version 0.17.12
[...]
Minor Features
- Spawner tooltip (including the pollution statistics), shows distribution of biters spawn for the current evolution factor with the pollution costs.
- Added attack modifier setting into the pollution section in the map generator. This modifies how much pollution is consumed by biters attacking. (default is 50% for deathworld presets)
[...]
So, I should have roughly half the biters from pollution ?
(But then, this probably shouldn't impact me
that much, considering my offensive playstyle...)
My map seed :
My (0.17.59) map exchange string :
Code: Select all
>>>eNpjYBBksGbgYACCBnsQ5mBJzk/MgfFAmCs5v6AgtUg3vygVW
Zgzuag0JVU3PxNVcWpeam6lblJiMVAxgwMEA03NLMrPQzeBtbgkP
w9VpKQoNbUYWYS7tCgxL7M0F10vA+OiGhebhhY5BhD+X8+g8P8/C
ANZD4CWgjAYOABVAsVggDU5JzMtjYFBwRGInSCGMTBC5B7YM6ADx
o8Zjzu2/vhix8BY3sz75aviFjsGcgDUBhMHZhAHyhNwYFBbM3cHA
DJLTBA=<<<
(Note that Pollution Factor for evolution was normalized from 200 to 12 in 0.17.12...)
Re: Balance of Marathon Death world
Posted: Sat Aug 03, 2019 11:55 am
by Koub
I would understand it as twice the biters : If deathworld biters consume half the usual pollution to be spawned, then with the same pollution, you get twice the number of biters (or more accurately, you get less pollution consumed for spawning biters, so the spawners absorb less pollution, so your pollution spreads further, potentially triggering more spawners).
Re: Balance of Marathon Death world
Posted: Sat Aug 03, 2019 12:12 pm
by BlueTemplar
Yeah, so somewhat less than twice, as some of it would be absorbed by terrain/trees, when it wasn't previously...
But then, most of the pollution-related values have been tweaked in 0.17.12 anyway...
Re: Balance of Marathon Death world
Posted: Wed Aug 07, 2019 1:11 am
by slippycheeze
I kind of feel like a "community map presets" mod would be a solid thing to have.
I'm sure some folks would love a ".12 < preset < .60" or whatever it is deathworld option.
I'd love to have my watery
grave map full of oceans and islands as a simple preset.
Collecting them into one place would make it much easier to experiment with them and, importantly I think, to also provide more concrete evidence to the developers about the general feelings of the (forum using, at least) player base. Nothing like a concrete preset to argue about for getting people to, y'know, argue.
Re: Balance of Marathon Death world
Posted: Wed Aug 07, 2019 5:30 am
by Koub
slippycheeze wrote: Wed Aug 07, 2019 1:11 am
I kind of feel like a "community map presets" mod would be a solid thing to have.
Or this :
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=45083 ?
Re: Balance of Marathon Death world
Posted: Wed Aug 07, 2019 11:04 am
by BlueTemplar
Koub, this is pretty much what we already have with export/import map exchange string... minus a game-created file to save them (and their names, probably). Might probably want to expand on this existing functionality ? (Like we do with blueprints.)
Oh, also it would be nice if map seed was contained "in plain text" in the beginning / end of the map exchange string !
Re: Balance of Marathon Death world
Posted: Wed Aug 07, 2019 12:43 pm
by aka13
BenSeidel wrote: Thu Jul 25, 2019 3:36 am
Koub has it right: Build Slowly!
You need to keep your pollution from hitting the biter nests as much as possible. Once you have some damage & shooting speed upgrades under your belt then attack the nests. Don't attack them yourself as turrets do more damage. Don't let your turrets die, repair them... It's difficult but not impossible. Play with a friend or 2 and it becomes MUCH easier (and also more fun). Make sure you have all the resources turned up to max. I'm not sure it's possible to do on normal resource levels... Ensure you are surrounded by trees. This is the ONLY time trees are your friends. Don't be cutting them down if you can manage it. Go Green. Go directly for efficiency modules. Get solar power ASAP. Every solar panel you put down reduces the amount of pollution you are producing. Don't upgrade your assemblers unless you have the modules to put in them. Gray assemblers produce more for less energy and less pollution. Basically don't upgrade anything past tier 1. Upgrades cost resources. Resources cause pollution to be created. Pollution is bad. The ONLY exception to this is stone furnaces -> steel furnaces. Upgrade these ASAP. They produce half as much pollution per item. Ensure you can turn your base off and turn it off before the pollution gets too bad. GLHF.
Screw building slowly, three things are important -
1. ALWAYS have a perimeter defence set up
2.ALWAYS have a new ore path waiting for you, don't run into ressource starvation
3. Forget research rushing, only research military stuff you will NEED to survive, until you are able to steamroll.
I have been playing marathon deathworld only since it got introduced, couple additional tips -
1. Flamethrower defence is ressource intensive, but energetically free. You can literally have every tile of your perimeter covered with flamthrowers, and it WILL last until endgame.
2. Default ressource settings and generation are bullshit. Even when you will be able to steamroll enemies, you will spend 90% of the time setting up new mining outposts. Use RSO with default settings for a fun experience, or twiddle with default ones.
3. Setup a perimeter rail and automatically resupplied bot repair stations. You will not want to repair it all by hand.
Re: Balance of Marathon Death world
Posted: Wed Aug 07, 2019 1:58 pm
by slippycheeze
...or that, yeah, since you stuck a question mark on the end. One of these is possible today without Wube doing anything, though, which informed my choice of solution.
Re: Balance of Marathon Death world
Posted: Wed Aug 07, 2019 4:13 pm
by BlueTemplar
aka13 wrote: Wed Aug 07, 2019 12:43 pm
Screw building slowly, three things are important -
1. ALWAYS have a perimeter defence set up
Not a requirement - too much defense is a waste of resources.
aka13 wrote: Wed Aug 07, 2019 12:43 pm
3. Forget research rushing, only research military stuff you will NEED to survive, until you are able to steamroll.
What about research rushing oil + flamethrowers so that you can steamroll ?
aka13 wrote: Wed Aug 07, 2019 12:43 pm
2. Default ressource settings and generation are bullshit. Even when you will be able to steamroll enemies, you will spend 90% of the time setting up new mining outposts. Use RSO with default settings for a fun experience, or twiddle with default ones.
Not my experience in 0.17(.0-.11)... maybe because I don't spend 90% of my resources on defense ?
Re: Balance of Marathon Death world
Posted: Wed Aug 07, 2019 4:30 pm
by aka13
BlueTemplar wrote: Wed Aug 07, 2019 4:13 pm
aka13 wrote: Wed Aug 07, 2019 12:43 pm
Screw building slowly, three things are important -
1. ALWAYS have a perimeter defence set up
Not a requirement - too much defense is a waste of resources.
aka13 wrote: Wed Aug 07, 2019 12:43 pm
3. Forget research rushing, only research military stuff you will NEED to survive, until you are able to steamroll.
What about research rushing oil + flamethrowers so that you can steamroll ?
aka13 wrote: Wed Aug 07, 2019 12:43 pm
2. Default ressource settings and generation are bullshit. Even when you will be able to steamroll enemies, you will spend 90% of the time setting up new mining outposts. Use RSO with default settings for a fun experience, or twiddle with default ones.
Not my experience in 0.17(.0-.11)... maybe because I don't spend 90% of my resources on defense ?
Well the question is, how slowly you advance, of course. I am a rather "monumental" player, slow and unforgiving to the biters
In fact, this is the only reason I have started playing modded, because I REALLY did not like how ressource patched did not grow with my needs in the old times.