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4 belts beaconed smelter row

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Re: 4 belts beaconed smelter row

Posted: Wed Mar 20, 2019 12:09 am
by DaveMcW
Bauer wrote: Tue Mar 19, 2019 8:55 pmI'm pretty sure now that you cannot reach perfect compression with splitters since 0.17.
I agree. I made a very simple 8:4 merge, and it still fails.

splitters.jpg
splitters.jpg (203.56 KiB) Viewed 9602 times

Re: 4 belts beaconed smelter row

Posted: Wed Mar 20, 2019 12:24 am
by zOldBulldog
I wonder if it would still fail by supplying the "supplemental" material to fill up the belt from the sides (no splitter).

Re: 4 belts beaconed smelter row

Posted: Wed Mar 20, 2019 2:09 am
by Tekillaa
Bauer wrote: Tue Mar 19, 2019 8:55 pm
theolderbeholder wrote: Tue Mar 19, 2019 7:10 pm One more splitter to the left column, middle position.
Too easy! This one is theoretically not needed... However, I tried it nevertheless. It's not the solution.
I'm pretty sure now that you cannot reach perfect compression with splitters since 0.17.
At a different location, I have 6 perfectly compressed belts and reduce them with a standard 6-to-4 balancer to 4 belts. The result are 4 non-perfectly compressed belts.

6-to-4.jpg
4-belts.jpg
hi, the pb are not splitters, but the balancer you use. if the splitter is correctly fed, hes always able to make the blue line. but the balancer you use seems to have "fluidity issues". when i want go from 6 to 4, i use a fractal 6/6 balancer where i use only 4 output, and there my 4 perfect 4 lines comin from 6 lines with no "difference", even a 8/8 balancer when you use 6 input/4 output is workin aslong is saturated 'because you make more input than output)

Re: 4 belts beaconed smelter row

Posted: Wed Mar 20, 2019 7:19 am
by Bauer
zOldBulldog wrote: Wed Mar 20, 2019 12:24 am I wonder if it would still fail by supplying the "supplemental" material to fill up the belt from the sides (no splitter).
Side loading and inserters can fully compress a belt. Only the splitters make problems.

Re: 4 belts beaconed smelter row

Posted: Wed Mar 20, 2019 7:20 am
by Bauer
DaveMcW wrote: Wed Mar 20, 2019 12:09 am
Bauer wrote: Tue Mar 19, 2019 8:55 pmI'm pretty sure now that you cannot reach perfect compression with splitters since 0.17.
I agree. I made a very simple 8:4 merge, and it still fails.
Is it a bug? I'll post a bug report.

I'm not the first one to see that something is dodgy with the splitters.
viewtopic.php?f=7&t=67815&p=413375&hili ... er#p413375
viewtopic.php?f=23&t=66628&p=406381&hil ... er#p406381

Re: 4 belts beaconed smelter row

Posted: Fri Mar 22, 2019 9:14 pm
by Bauer
0.17.17 fixed it.
Works beautifully now. With this design:
4 blue belts output.jpg
4 blue belts output.jpg (340.88 KiB) Viewed 9530 times

Re: 4 belts beaconed smelter row

Posted: Fri Mar 22, 2019 10:09 pm
by Tekillaa
Hi, nice observation of splitters! ty for the bug report so and apologies about my wrong suggestion.

Re: 4 belts beaconed smelter row

Posted: Sun Mar 24, 2019 8:30 pm
by Bauer
Tekillaa wrote: Fri Mar 22, 2019 10:09 pm Hi, nice observation of splitters! ty for the bug report so and apologies about my wrong suggestion.
never mind.

Re: 4 belts beaconed smelter row

Posted: Wed Apr 17, 2019 11:04 pm
by zOldBulldog
Bauer wrote: Fri Mar 22, 2019 9:14 pm 0.17.17 fixed it.
Works beautifully now. With this design:
4 blue belts output.jpg

I started using your blueprint and noticed that you feed it 5 belts.

Is it to have a universal smelter design that supports multiple formulas? Specifically:

Iron 1->1 Iron Plate (3.2 sec)
Copper 1->1 Copper Plate (3.2 sec)
Stone 2->1 Stone Brick (3.2 sec)
Steel Plate 5->1 (16 sec)

Or is it simply to deal with compression issues and only produces full belts of Iron and Copper?

Also, am I correct that processing Stone will only produce 2 belts worth of Stone Bricks, so I'd need either 2 lines or simply merge the output from 4 to 2?

(I apologize if the questions are dumb, I still struggle with "Factorio math" :P)

Re: 4 belts beaconed smelter row

Posted: Thu Apr 18, 2019 12:09 am
by DaveMcW
The perfect ratio is 2 red belts and 2 blue belts of input to produce 4 blue belts of output. But making sure every resource in an almost-empty belt gets used can be tricky.

I recommend this design for steel.

Re: 4 belts beaconed smelter row

Posted: Thu Apr 18, 2019 6:30 am
by Bauer
zOldBulldog wrote: Wed Apr 17, 2019 11:04 pm
Bauer wrote: Fri Mar 22, 2019 9:14 pm 0.17.17 fixed it.
Works beautifully now. With this design:
4 blue belts output.jpg

I started using your blueprint and noticed that you feed it 5 belts.

Is it to have a universal smelter design that supports multiple formulas? Specifically:

Iron 1->1 Iron Plate (3.2 sec)
Copper 1->1 Copper Plate (3.2 sec)
Stone 2->1 Stone Brick (3.2 sec)
Steel Plate 5->1 (16 sec)

Or is it simply to deal with compression issues and only produces full belts of Iron and Copper?

Also, am I correct that processing Stone will only produce 2 belts worth of Stone Bricks, so I'd need either 2 lines or simply merge the output from 4 to 2?

(I apologize if the questions are dumb, I still struggle with "Factorio math" :P)
It's actually 5 red belts, which equals 2 red + 2 blue.
I need 5 belts input to manage the spaghetti.
It took me 5 hours to realize that it's much easier with 5 than with 4...

Re: 4 belts beaconed smelter row

Posted: Thu Apr 18, 2019 6:34 am
by Bauer
DaveMcW wrote: Thu Apr 18, 2019 12:09 am The perfect ratio is 2 red belts and 2 blue belts of input to produce 4 blue belts of output. But making sure every resource in an almost-empty belt gets used can be tricky.

I recommend this design for steel.
Don't you thinkt that this is a little overkill?

Re: 4 belts beaconed smelter row

Posted: Thu Apr 18, 2019 8:30 am
by zOldBulldog
Bauer wrote: Thu Apr 18, 2019 6:30 am
zOldBulldog wrote: Wed Apr 17, 2019 11:04 pm
Bauer wrote: Fri Mar 22, 2019 9:14 pm 0.17.17 fixed it.
Works beautifully now. With this design:
4 blue belts output.jpg

I started using your blueprint and noticed that you feed it 5 belts.

Is it to have a universal smelter design that supports multiple formulas? Specifically:

Iron 1->1 Iron Plate (3.2 sec)
Copper 1->1 Copper Plate (3.2 sec)
Stone 2->1 Stone Brick (3.2 sec)
Steel Plate 5->1 (16 sec)

Or is it simply to deal with compression issues and only produces full belts of Iron and Copper?

Also, am I correct that processing Stone will only produce 2 belts worth of Stone Bricks, so I'd need either 2 lines or simply merge the output from 4 to 2?

(I apologize if the questions are dumb, I still struggle with "Factorio math" :P)
It's actually 5 red belts, which equals 2 red + 2 blue.
I need 5 belts input to manage the spaghetti.
It took me 5 hours to realize that it's much easier with 5 than with 4...
Ah, got it. 4 blue belts in, 4-5 balancer before the input , 4 blue belts out.

Re: 4 belts beaconed smelter row

Posted: Thu Apr 18, 2019 8:36 am
by Bauer
I use a 5 wagon station into 20 blue belts (using tanks to unload quickly enough to fill 4 blue belts per wagon).
The 20 blue are split into 30 red, which feed 6 such rows.
Output is 24 blue belts.

This setup is multiplied a couple of times.

Re: 4 belts beaconed smelter row

Posted: Sun May 19, 2019 5:51 am
by fuschu
Mine works perfectly in 0.17, 180/s no gaps

Re: 4 belts beaconed smelter row

Posted: Mon May 20, 2019 7:17 am
by Bauer
Nice one. Good design, if you use only one type of ore.

Re: 4 belts beaconed smelter row

Posted: Thu May 30, 2019 4:16 am
by patrick12222010
Stealing this...

Re: 4 belts beaconed smelter row

Posted: Fri May 31, 2019 11:16 pm
by Sargas
fuschu wrote: Sun May 19, 2019 5:51 am Mine works perfectly in 0.17, 180/s no gaps
Would you mind to share the blueprint of your design?

Bauer wrote: Mon May 20, 2019 7:17 am Nice one. Good design, if you use only one type of ore.
Could you perhaps explain your answer to me? With your design, I can't process multiple types of ore per line at the same time, can I?

Edit: Which of the 6 are the 4 output conveyors? Or do the 6 have to be merged to 4?

Re: 4 belts beaconed smelter row

Posted: Tue Jun 04, 2019 9:28 am
by Bauer
Sargas wrote: Fri May 31, 2019 11:16 pm
Bauer wrote: Mon May 20, 2019 7:17 am Nice one. Good design, if you use only one type of ore.
Could you perhaps explain your answer to me? With your design, I can't process multiple types of ore per line at the same time, can I?

Edit: Which of the 6 are the 4 output conveyors? Or do the 6 have to be merged to 4?
The 4 in the middle are the output conveyors.
You can input a mix of different ores, will work without a problem. The output will also be mixed though.
If you mix very wildly the overall speed (180 items/s output) will be slightly reduced.
You can also add stone, but the limiting factor will be the input.

Re: 4 belts beaconed smelter row

Posted: Tue Jun 04, 2019 11:47 am
by Sargas
Thank you for the explanation. That means that I don't have to balance the 6 belts to 4 belts.
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