Factorio Forums

woytaz wrote:

I wanted to avoid politics in this blog

Please do. Whether I agree, disagree or don't care about those grants and how they're awarded is irrelevant - I read FFF because it's focused on Factorio, its development, technical stuff etc. From my experience topics like that only result in massive flame wars and lots of shit flying towards the devs.

Other than that, I love Factorio and can't wait to see what more is going to be added! You guys are great and I hope to see Factorio in Top 1 sellers on Steam once it launches there

Seconded. I love Factorio and would hate to see political flamewars hurt its development or sales in any way.

Afforess wrote:USA based game companies certainly don't receive (nor need) taxpayer money.

This is totally untrue.
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/09/11/techn ... akers.html

I understand the appeal of an laissez faire attitude. It makes sense that different video game companies should make their own games and let consumers decide what they want to play.

There's two reasons it's just not practical.

First, other countries are already doing it. I assume you guys pay taxes for your office space. In the United States, if you are opening up a large enough business, it's not uncommon to request a tax abatement from the cities you're considering. The different cities WANT those high tech, high paying jobs, that'll help their mayors get reelected. One might offer five years of tax exemptions, one might offer ten. The same story goes all the way up to State and Federal levels in the US, in a multitude of forms.

If there was an international treaty to end all subsidies to the gaming industry to make things fair, you might have a point, but there isn't. In order to keep up, the EU has to subsidize as well or they'll be at a disadvantage.

Second, subsidization can be an effective way for nations and groups like the EU to diversify their industries. I live in Phoenix Arizona in the US. Our local economy was heavily based around Real Estate. Things were really nice for years, everyone was making money. In 2008, the Real Estate industry collapsed and Phoenix was economically devastated. We had all our eggs in one basket. Six years later, there's a big push to bring in biotechnology companies. Real estate is still big business but we're trying to move into some other directions so that one industry doesn't take everything down with it.

Europe wants to compete against the US and Japan in this industry and that means nurturing small companies. I know it seems like Witcher 3 was a huge success, but compare that to franchises like Mario Bros. Halo or Call of Duty.

Anyways, I think Factorio will do fine within its niche, but I hope that you take this into consideration if you're ever in a position to accept assistance.

Ah, euroskepticism! That's all you need to confirm Kovarex is truly Czech

But yeah, I would also enjoy it if future FF's were oriented about the game itself. I understand there's not much to write about and that there's pressure to put at least something in the weekly blog post, but I think people would understand that nothing much interesting happens during some weeks.

It's different to strategically subsidize based on the actual situation at hand and it's different to subsidize story-driven games. There is no point in the latter.

EU does things like that. They like to subsidize random projects and regulate random products. They trample the market without realizing what they're doing. Worst of all, they think they do good. It's kind of an agreement corner up there. Restrict vacuum cleaners to under 1600W? Great idea, reduces greenhouse gas emissions. They don't realize you have to keep it on for 5 times as long to clean your carpets, consuming more energy. They have no idea lower suction power means more fine dust partices stay in the air, harming people in general, especially those with alergies. It just seems like this grand idea to them because it seems nice on paper and they have nobody to tell them how stupid it is.

It's kind of funny actually. And sad at the same time.

I think it's a good question to ask, how such a funding programme must look like, that a really independent game development company like wube will take money from.
Is that even thinkable, stated, that they say "You are randomly selected. Here is the money, do what you want with it, but don't bother me..."? Or are there fundamental discrepancies like "No, we are not taking the blood money from others"?

Just curious.

@Dury: I like such kinds of comparisons (need to clean 5 times longer carpets). Remember, there are always more than two sides of arguments and the truth is always somewhere between them. Always.

Well, not saying all of the regulations are bad. Truly not. But:

European Commission Regulation No. 1677/88, "Class I" and "Extra class" cucumbers are allowed a bend of 10mm per 10cm of length. "Class II" cucumbers can bend twice as much. Any cucumbers that are curvier may not be bought or sold.

This one, for instance, is almost a joke

The curvy cucumber law was repealed in 2008. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/politics/8587496.stm

Good riddance!

Still works to illustrate what kind of suggestions get okayed.

At the same time, it's nice knowing they get rid of the really crazy stuff.

I'll pass on the politics, but interesting anyway.

However since there aren't any posts in here about the update or game not working I will take that to mean the Devs are doing an awesome job with Factorio, as expected.

I LOVE THIS GAME ! ! !

Keep up the great work.

Friggin Nazis all over again now with pens and paper instead of guns. Worst part is world thinks this is legal.
Damn EU supporting brainless games that improve NOTHING. Great keep stupid people more stupid so they wont interfere with anything they want.

Hey, I'm a real person!
And if I ever meet you I'm totally going to ask you to release the next version right there from your phone.

As for the political debate, I agree the dev blog isn't the right place. Comments like “stolen from other people through taxes” make you sound really naive, like you actually believe a state could function without raising taxes. That's not how things work and you know it.

Scary isnt it meeting people who play factorio

Drury wrote:It's different to strategically subsidize based on the actual situation at hand and it's different to subsidize story-driven games. There is no point in the latter.

EU does things like that. They like to subsidize random projects and regulate random products. They trample the market without realizing what they're doing. Worst of all, they think they do good. It's kind of an agreement corner up there. Restrict vacuum cleaners to under 1600W? Great idea, reduces greenhouse gas emissions. They don't realize you have to keep it on for 5 times as long to clean your carpets, consuming more energy. They have no idea lower suction power means more fine dust partices stay in the air, harming people in general, especially those with alergies. It just seems like this grand idea to them because it seems nice on paper and they have nobody to tell them how stupid it is.

It's kind of funny actually. And sad at the same time.

This.

I disagree with kovarex in almost everything political/economical, but this kind of subsidizing/regulation is just retarded. And EU should be shamed frequently for such dumb laws, but probably not on factorio blog . . . so, new ambience tracks are cool

Anyway, the fact, that there isn't any flamewar here means that our audience is probably quite mature

I'm sorry but that whole rant about stealing taxes and all that seem overly naive.

That being said, I definitely agree that the EU should focus more on things that matter, rather than limiting the curvature of vegetables and fruit (Ask the Japanese if you must - they make square melons), and handing out fund money to random media developers.

And then again... The EU is trying to help its businesses stay competitive with the US and other regions with growing (or existing) game developer behemoths - There's a reason why we give "culture" free money. Almost no one care about opera, theatre and orchestras compared to the money it costs to keep them around.

Nice tech icons!

Haha yeah meeting a player in real life is probably surprising and a bit weird. Like you know that almost 100k people have bought the game, but to actually meet one of those people face to face out of the blue is pretty nuts.

Man I am loving those new tech icons top!

kovarex wrote:Anyway, the fact, that there isn't any flamewar here means that our audience is probably quite mature

So this was all a ruse to gather some data on your target group? O:

kovarex wrote:Anyway, the fact, that there isn't any flamewar here means that our audience is probably quite mature

The other explanation here is that our demographic is very non-diverse and we only have a very narrow range of opinions here on the forums.

This FF is 4 parts:
1. Met a guy in a pub.
2. releases are now automatic.
3. government is evil.
4. 6 pictures, guess of what.

basicaly there is nothing in this FF. This can only mean that there is nothing to tell us about the game development. Think its time to declare 0.12 stable. (i want the logicky stuff in .13)

Oxyd wrote:

kovarex wrote:Anyway, the fact, that there isn't any flamewar here means that our audience is probably quite mature

The other explanation here is that our demographic is very non-diverse and we only have a very narrow range of opinions here on the forums.

You just called the whole forum (as a whole) narrow minded. nice!

If this doesnt start the flame war Kovarex wanted (why else post taxy stuff in game blog)...