Factorio Forums

computeraddict wrote: Sun Jul 06, 2025 4:22 pm So yeah, I think it does make the game better, because without friction on import/export of solutions you'd be shoehorned into using the same solutions everywhere.

Instead you are shoehorned into using the planet specific solutions which usually only work on their specific planet. Little room for experimentation. So while each planet feels different in its own way because of this design choice, the player choice however has to suffer. ^^

MeduSalem wrote: Fri Aug 01, 2025 5:07 pm

computeraddict wrote: Sun Jul 06, 2025 4:22 pm So yeah, I think it does make the game better, because without friction on import/export of solutions you'd be shoehorned into using the same solutions everywhere.

Instead you are shoehorned into using the planet specific solutions which usually only work on their specific planet. Little room for experimentation. So while each planet feels different in its own way because of this design choice, the player choice however has to suffer. ^^

You aren't shoehorned into using the planet specific solutions. Plenty of people, myself included, have built huge infrastructures early-mid game to allow for reliable resources/power/spaceships everywhere.

crimsonarmy wrote: Fri Aug 01, 2025 8:17 pm You aren't shoehorned into using the planet specific solutions. Plenty of people, myself included, have built huge infrastructures early-mid game to allow for reliable resources/power/spaceships everywhere.

In my opinion you are and there is not much you would be able to say to convince me otherwise.

MeduSalem wrote: Fri Aug 01, 2025 5:07 pm

computeraddict wrote: Sun Jul 06, 2025 4:22 pm So yeah, I think it does make the game better, because without friction on import/export of solutions you'd be shoehorned into using the same solutions everywhere.

Instead you are shoehorned into using the planet specific solutions which usually only work on their specific planet. Little room for experimentation. So while each planet feels different in its own way because of this design choice, the player choice however has to suffer. ^^

Talking about the uranium that feels weird to read, because for "vulcanus" you have plenty of solutions and not one that seem obviously better given player choices. How did you kill the worm ?

For Gleba it's a little different because you can control the level of pollution differently and some players will have minimal combat, but others will have to handle the consequences of the fruit waste, but still it feels to me that the uranium limitation has not negative impact on combat, i feel it incentivise player to use different things than what is more easily availlable on Nauvis, but it's not limiting the choice, more like forcing one between various alternative by leveling the field between the choices.

mmmPI wrote: Sat Aug 02, 2025 9:23 am Talking about the uranium that feels weird to read, because for "vulcanus" you have plenty of solutions and not one that seem obviously better given player choices. How did you kill the worm ?

For Gleba it's a little different because you can control the level of pollution differently and some players will have minimal combat, but others will have to handle the consequences of the fruit waste, but still it feels to me that the uranium limitation has not negative impact on combat, i feel it incentivise player to use different things than what is more easily availlable on Nauvis, but it's not limiting the choice, more like forcing one between various alternative by leveling the field between the choices.

As you likely already expected, I shipped in a tank and a stack of uranium cannon shells and almost one-shot the first worm. It was dead before it knew what hit it. But mind Vulcanus was only the 2nd planet after Fulgora (which took me much longer than expected because I tried to make sense if there is any intended rhyme behind the trash recycling), and because I had run out of research I had time to stack some infinites and went to Vulcanus over-prepared. At that point found it the easiest, fastest & cost-opportunity-efficient approach to worms. However Vulcanis is also not the best example with worms being passive/territorial and not constantly coming to nibble on your base. ^^

When it comes to other uranium stuff, I sure also find it pointless to ship uranium or uranium rounds in large quantities around, let alone atom bombs. Not because there would be no use for it anywhere else (at least with Gleba or even asteroids there would be potential longterm use), but simply because of the shipping limitation turning it into more of a hassle than anything else. (But similarly there are some other items that are also in that department where you wonder why it is like that in a expansion with interplanetary shipment as a game loop).

Anyway my notion about some things about SA feeling "shoehorned" was not particularly only because of the uranium shipping limitation, but it is a part of the theme. There are various things with rocket launches, how platforms or planets specific things work where it is obvious one is supposed to do stuff in a certain envisioned way by making other things very inefficient or not work at all, or just for the sake of it, despite there being alternative ways available if they would just allow them or made them more valid alternatives. I get they want to present players with different "challenges" otherwise gameplay may feel repetitive with Nauvis quintupled, but "shoehorning" for diversity out of fear people may end up playing one-sided and not using some content... is a thing. Also not everyone likes these kind of artificial challenges.

If people want ship uranium (ammo) in large scale to deal with Gleba or asteroids, let them. No need to throw a stick into their spokes. It is a sandbox after all, not some competitive online game where strict balancing is needed to ensure fair play to everyone. If at all some of the balancing & artificial restrictions can make sandbox games unfun and it definitely makes SA to a certain extend less fun than it could be because they went a little overboard and overengineered some things compared to the base game. If it were not like that, there wouldn't be some of the recurring topics like rocket capacities and other prominent things. ^^

MeduSalem wrote: Sat Aug 02, 2025 12:52 pm As you likely already expected,

No i had no idea, someplayer use turrets, other thanks, other like me TESLAS , i've seen speedrunners use different strategies too , that's why i asked !

MeduSalem wrote: Sat Aug 02, 2025 12:52 pm When it comes to other uranium stuff, I sure also find it pointless to ship uranium or uranium rounds in large quantities around, let alone atom bombs. Not because there would be no use for it anywhere else (at least with Gleba or even asteroids there would be potential longterm use), but simply because of the shipping limitation turning it into more of a hassle than anything else. (But similarly there are some other items that are also in that department where you wonder why it is like that in a expansion with interplanetary shipment as a game loop).

that's the point of the balance choice i believe ,you nailed it, there would be good use for it, maybe too many, and thus it was made super heavy, so it's a hassle and it makes players think about the product they want to ship and are incentivize to use other means. amongst the various ones !

MeduSalem wrote: Sat Aug 02, 2025 12:52 pm If people want ship uranium (ammo) in large scale to deal with Gleba or asteroids, let them. No need to throw a stick into their spokes. It is a sandbox after all, not some competitive online game where strict balancing is needed to ensure fair play to everyone. If at all some of the balancing & artificial restrictions can make sandbox games unfun and it definitely makes SA to a certain extend less fun than it could be because they went a little overboard and overengineered some things compared to the base game

I believe this is typically the kind of tweak that would be belonging to mod. It's a change in philosophy, you want to remove something that was intended instead of changing it for it to serve its purpose better, the weight restrictions are there for the purpose of "not shipping everything in large scale".

mmmPI wrote: Sat Aug 02, 2025 2:35 pm No i had no idea, someplayer use turrets, other thanks, other like me TESLAS , i've seen speedrunners use different strategies too , that's why i asked !

Ah well, I did consider making a turret killbox, then aggro the worm and lure them in there. That was my initial plan after I first heard from other people how difficult they found worms due to their high resistances.

But in practice when I eventually got to Vulcanus I then looked through all the bonuses I already had acquired at that point... and thought... well why not use uranium cannon shells instead. Offered the highest DPS with least effort at that point. ^^

mmmPI wrote: Sat Aug 02, 2025 2:35 pm I believe this is typically the kind of tweak that would be belonging to mod. It's a change in philosophy, you want to remove something that was intended instead of changing it for it to serve its purpose better, the weight restrictions are there for the purpose of "not shipping everything in large scale".

I know, this is what the weight system was designed to do.
But one cannot deny, in a game/expansion where shipping stuff around between planets plays a critical part and which is one of the fun aspects, that some of the restrictions are also counter productive to the theme. ^^

But I cannot entirely complain, because for example I am glad they made rocket launches much cheaper than in the base game. Because otherwise it would be horrible if they would cost as much as in the base game and only offer a limited payload.