Factorio Forums

Orzelek, how does water in the game work. Is it a layer?
I was wondering, if with the Finite Water Mod, once could empty lakes and find resource fields?

I don't think it's possible, but was wondering...

GopherAtl wrote: words are wordy, so I'll pause for a screenshot of the map with it generating 4 starting areas with separation 2
http://puu.sh/jKJ4p.png

Does this ensure water in the starting areas?

Align wrote:

GopherAtl wrote: words are wordy, so I'll pause for a screenshot of the map with it generating 4 starting areas with separation 2
http://puu.sh/jKJ4p.png

Does this ensure water in the starting areas?

Not as yet. It also doesn't keep biters off your lawn - they won't actually spawn in the starting areas, but they will spawn literally right outside, much closer than they would otherwise. It also needs to make at least a some effort not to give spawn coordinates that are in water. There are probably other things I haven't noticed yet.

There is no way to hide resources under the water from what I know.
You'd need to keep track of water tiles that were meant for resource and then spawn the resource there when water is removed by a finite water mode.

Starting area water is guaranteed by game - generating small pond in separate starting areas would need some work to spawn it.

As for multiplayer support - I'm a bit reluctant to play with it due to lack of ability to test stuff.
You will need to make sure that starting areas are stored and then used to ensure that nothing is spawned in starting area size distance from each of them. It shouldn't be difficult to add tho.

orzelek wrote:As for multiplayer support - I'm a bit reluctant to play with it due to lack of ability to test stuff.
You will need to make sure that starting areas are stored and then used to ensure that nothing is spawned in starting area size distance from each of them. It shouldn't be difficult to add tho.

Yeah, I haven't tested it properly yet (hopefully some time today), but it ought to be saving the starting areas already. Looked into how biter safe zone works, seems to be a separate config setting, clear_area, which defaults to 6, not sure if that's a radius or a diameter yet but need to apply it in any case. That plus basic testing for, and if necessary creation of, water in each area shouldn't be too hard, and will poke at those today as well.

Sadfaced that you're not keen on taking over, as it means I have to keep working on this mod XD but! There is need, and I will attempt to fill!

GopherAtl wrote:

orzelek wrote:As for multiplayer support - I'm a bit reluctant to play with it due to lack of ability to test stuff.
You will need to make sure that starting areas are stored and then used to ensure that nothing is spawned in starting area size distance from each of them. It shouldn't be difficult to add tho.

Yeah, I haven't tested it properly yet (hopefully some time today), but it ought to be saving the starting areas already. Looked into how biter safe zone works, seems to be a separate config setting, clear_area, which defaults to 6, not sure if that's a radius or a diameter yet but need to apply it in any case. That plus basic testing for, and if necessary creation of, water in each area shouldn't be too hard, and will poke at those today as well.

Sadfaced that you're not keen on taking over, as it means I have to keep working on this mod XD but! There is need, and I will attempt to fill!

The area around biter nests has nothing to do with starting area at all.
It's the one of issues I found with trying to get more starting areas. Some places in the code need an update to look through all those instead of assuming that starting area is at 0,0 and has defined size.

As for taking over - I'd wait with this from your side a bit. Yeganer has been working on new version of RSO with some additional features. It would be sensible to add this support to it - it's already on github and it will be available there when finished.

Current version might be discontinued and replaced with the new one.

Taken from the Bob's Mod discussion on best setup

orzelek wrote:You don't need to edit absolute enemy chance now - it's enough to set enemy bases frequency to higher value in map gen settings. If you want more enemies also size for enemy bases works to make those larger.

Hmm, look at these results.
I'm still think that RSO totally generates too few Aliens.

The size for all below was Medium, I just changed the Frequency.
This was using RSO 1.3.4
With the change to absolute_enemy_chance, from .25 to .5

You can get the chance to be 1 which means certain amount of bases per region. It will be less then in vanilla for sure - it's not meant to be that much.

That's been a recurring problem even since the beginning of RSO, and I'm not sure how to solve it. They can't be too frequent or strong since in RSO you have to scout for resources, sometimes far and wide with the rarer oil and stone if you get unlucky. After that though, since you rarely need to expand to new areas in RSO you generally don't have any trouble with biters.

Align wrote:That's been a recurring problem even since the beginning of RSO, and I'm not sure how to solve it. They can't be too frequent or strong since in RSO you have to scout for resources, sometimes far and wide with the rarer oil and stone if you get unlucky. After that though, since you rarely need to expand to new areas in RSO you generally don't have any trouble with biters.

Do you mean that there is not enough biters?
I think there is a parameter meant to increase biters density based on distance. It might not be working properly - I would need to check it.

Lower base density is an effect of having less bases per region ( and regions are quite big - approx 210x210 tiles ).
Increasing of base size at map gen settings also increases amount of bases per region currently. So setting high value there will net you a lot of biters currently.

What's the difference between:

/c remote.call("RSO", "regenerate", true)
&
/c remote.call("RSO", "regenerate")

Thanks.

orzelek wrote:Do you mean that there is not enough biters?

Not exactly - RSO has less enemy bases, but this is necessary since you may have to go quite far to get enough resources that you can start taking the fight to them. But that also means there's much less need for the defensive lines you need in vanilla. So you want biters to be more of a threat so you have to balance your pollution and defense, like in vanilla, but you also don't, because then it becomes too difficult to get resources initially.

Maybe if they expanded and placed new bases more aggressively after you got your initial resources, somehow?

If you play with one of the biter evolution mods, I think they both use the same snippet of code which makes biters move and expand more at higher evolutions.

Since time and total pollution is a factor for evolution, this produces the result you mention - at first the biters are far away, spread out, and quiet - but over time they eventually build up to basically fill the entire map.

TheSAguy wrote:What's the difference between:

/c remote.call("RSO", "regenerate", true)
&
/c remote.call("RSO", "regenerate")

Thanks.

First one will create new main random seed before the regen - result will be totally different then what you had before the call.
Second one will try to regen everything with same seed - this should result in resources being re-spawned in same locations.

orzelek wrote:

TheSAguy wrote:What's the difference between:

/c remote.call("RSO", "regenerate", true)
&
/c remote.call("RSO", "regenerate")

Thanks.

First one will create new main random seed before the regen - result will be totally different then what you had before the call.
Second one will try to regen everything with same seed - this should result in resources being re-spawned in same locations.

So, if I start a new game with the same seed (because I like the terrain or starting area), and then call this command, resources will be in different places to last time? Or does this only affect already explored areas of the map?

If you start a new game with this mod installed, you won't need to regenerate, as RSO already does the ore generation. The seed is the input for the world generator, RSO basically replaces parts of the world generator.

Boogieman14 wrote:If you start a new game with this mod installed, you won't need to regenerate, as RSO already does the ore generation. The seed is the input for the world generator, RSO basically replaces parts of the world generator.

I'm restarting a game which already used RSO, because I installed a new mod. I want the resources outside the starting area to be different because it takes some of the fun/difficulty away if I already know where the best resource deposits will be. I just tested it and it does work that way

I have a question about the oil richness. It seems to be a lot richer than other resources. Like, I am finding oil patches with yeilds of 10000% - 20000% or more at the same sort of distance as iron/coal patches with between 500-1000 resources per pile (each tile sized square, that is). Is this fairly typical or something buggy/a mistake I've made configuring the distance-richness scaling? I haven't really got into big oil production yet but it seems that a patch that rich could sustain a pumpjack at 10 oil/s almost forever, hundreds of hours by my calculation.

Bug. Maybe the oil generation code ended up exponentially increasing by distance accidentally at some point?

Looking at the version history this is a bug that was already fixed in 1.3.4, nevermind