Repofme1 wrote:Yep! Chloralkali Process is a classic of Factorio overhauls. And rightly so - it's very useful.
I like my titanium well-seasoned, so it doesn't crack
(I don't know what else to say here)
Thanks for the help!Airat9000 wrote:Repofme1 wrote:Yep! Chloralkali Process is a classic of Factorio overhauls. And rightly so - it's very useful.
I like my titanium well-seasoned, so it doesn't crack
(I don't know what else to say here)
good work! a liked!
i am help in test future you!
a) and idea youki resuorces compartible!
You could help it by making the crude science to be required in later techs, too?Repofme1 wrote: Probably not the best idea to automate science 0, you might spend more time hand-crafting the automated machines & belt than you would hand-crafting science 0. Not much science 0 is needed, and by the time you have the burner assembling machine, you probably don't need science 0 anymore. *shrug*
Honestly, I would first try to achieve to have it running standalone without problems. It doesnt hurt to gain some experiences with other mods, but it can be extremly time consuming.Repofme1 wrote: I have not tested with Yuoki Resources, did you say it works with XM? Or is it broken and should be fixed?
Taking a break and doing something different is surely a good thing to get the head free again.Repofme1 wrote: As a heads-up, I'll be leaving next Wednesday for a week of travel, so I likely won't have Internet. I wanted to put this update out now so I have some time for more testing, and squashing more bugs that come up. I hope to get a smaller fix update out by Tuesday, before I leave.
Youki normal work -jodokus31 wrote:You could help it by making the crude science to be required in later techs, too?Repofme1 wrote: Probably not the best idea to automate science 0, you might spend more time hand-crafting the automated machines & belt than you would hand-crafting science 0. Not much science 0 is needed, and by the time you have the burner assembling machine, you probably don't need science 0 anymore. *shrug*
Honestly, I would first try to achieve to have it running standalone without problems. It doesnt hurt to gain some experiences with other mods, but it can be extremly time consuming.Repofme1 wrote: I have not tested with Yuoki Resources, did you say it works with XM? Or is it broken and should be fixed?
Taking a break and doing something different is surely a good thing to get the head free again.Repofme1 wrote: As a heads-up, I'll be leaving next Wednesday for a week of travel, so I likely won't have Internet. I wanted to put this update out now so I have some time for more testing, and squashing more bugs that come up. I hope to get a smaller fix update out by Tuesday, before I leave.
Hmm, i'm a bit sceptical. I may happen, that many of it works flawlessly. But i would assume, that there will be interdepedencies in details, which are difficult to debug. Or you have the choice between an easy recipe and a difficult, which will be quite confusing.Airat9000 wrote: Youki normal work -
you can simply add something to the recipes to use both it and your resources. to new recipes.
And since it works fine all 4 mods
Youki + Angels + Bobs + And Xander mod!
excellent
просто можно что то добавить к рецептам чтобы использовать и его и ваши ресурсы. к новым рецептам.
А так он работает отлично все 4 мода
Youki + Angels + Bobs + And Xander mod!
By "working" here I think we just mean that the game loads without crashing. Certainly there will be immense overlap issues, that will make gameplay extremely difficult, but still technically possible. For a while, until you hit a broken step up the tech tree. For other examples, look at Airat's earlier screenshots - many of the recipes show half of the items with XM textures and half with other mods' textures.jodokus31 wrote:Hmm, i'm a bit sceptical. I may happen, that many of it works flawlessly. But i would assume, that there will be interdepedencies in details, which are difficult to debug. Or you have the choice between an easy recipe and a difficult, which will be quite confusing.Airat9000 wrote: Youki normal work -
you can simply add something to the recipes to use both it and your resources. to new recipes.
And since it works fine all 4 mods
Youki + Angels + Bobs + And Xander mod!
excellent
просто можно что то добавить к рецептам чтобы использовать и его и ваши ресурсы. к новым рецептам.
А так он работает отлично все 4 мода
Youki + Angels + Bobs + And Xander mod!
textures and recipes (angel and you mod)Repofme1 wrote:By "working" here I think we just mean that the game loads without crashing. Certainly there will be immense overlap issues, that will make gameplay extremely difficult, but still technically possible. For a while, until you hit a broken step up the tech tree. For other examples, look at Airat's earlier screenshots - many of the recipes show half of the items with XM textures and half with other mods' textures.jodokus31 wrote:Hmm, i'm a bit sceptical. I may happen, that many of it works flawlessly. But i would assume, that there will be interdepedencies in details, which are difficult to debug. Or you have the choice between an easy recipe and a difficult, which will be quite confusing.Airat9000 wrote: Youki normal work -
you can simply add something to the recipes to use both it and your resources. to new recipes.
And since it works fine all 4 mods
Youki + Angels + Bobs + And Xander mod!
excellent
просто можно что то добавить к рецептам чтобы использовать и его и ваши ресурсы. к новым рецептам.
А так он работает отлично все 4 мода
Youki + Angels + Bobs + And Xander mod!
Oh well. Since the update, I only have reduced in cost the blast furnace/Bessemer combo, and the electric motor - I just cut out the motor green science an hour before I posted this! I think it is bad to first need expensive red + green techs, that then open up a bunch of cheaper red only techs. XM has a lot of this currently, and it's like a wall instead of a gradual climb - too difficult and rough, not good. Phenolic resin is also a tech that I will remove the green science for soon, it's supposed to be a late-burner-era replacement for a lot of wood.
I also like my own style of things, so when I consider other small mods (not huge ones like Bob's etc.), it would be more likely that XM gains new features, instead of a compatibility patch with another small mod.Ok, it checked the machine tool again. No Brushed Motor or I am really blind ... But if it is added, great.Repofme1 wrote:@ jodokus31
A bunch of things from earlier -
First, thanks for the continuing comments! They really do help
About the electric motor, I just checked and it was in the basic-machine category, so try the machine tool. But I might have accidentally left it hand-only in 1.2.0, which is incorrect. It's fixed now to be basic-crafting, for the burner and electric 1 assembler. The idea with the two coil and motor 1 recipes is to solve the same old issue with crude and advanced parts. The electric inserter has to be accessible early on because the burner inserters suck so bad, but it needs coils for motors, so I need earlier ways of making them. Science 1 also needs coils. And the wood product use is how I can force the crude version to be obsolete. Again about iron vs. steel costs, in the electric era you get the maximum ratio of 1 iron for 1 steel, which is 2 steel or iron plate worth per iron ore (one forging or casting stays 4 plates worth). This equal ratio for iron and steel makes a lot of steel recipes the exact same cost as the iron ones. The difference being that the crude version can't be automated after the early game, and the good version is more expensive in the early game only.
About science costs, I've only been realizing which ones are good and bad as I play my test world. I think that a good principle to use would be remove all green science needs before and including electric 1 machines. So, you should then be able to access electric 1 machines with very little need for hand crafting green science. The reason for this is that I was able to automate science 1 much more easily than science 2 - clearly, from their recipes. The one exception is furnace techs, but only the blast furnace and Bessemer steelmaking. Those two double your material efficiency in iron and steel, respectively, so they're quite powerful and expensive for the early game. I also realized to reduce their costs RIGHT after I posted the update... bad luck there
One other point, my goal with the science pack 0 was to make something with very little use, just cheap and crude enough to provide early bootstrapping until you have some basic mining and plausible chemistry supplies. I feel like it fits this nicely - there is already so much hand crafting of machines that a little science 0 is a small fraction of all the hand crafting. It makes automation feel very rewarding when you do get it
I am definitely focusing on getting XM to work first, I'm just glad to hear that it loads with other mods, and does not crash right away. Only if you have Airat's 120+ mod collection and press the "K" key...
). I actually see a lot of other inconsistencies, but i think, those are the category "to be fixed later" I simply try to discover inconsistencies, and just report things which catch my eye. And its nice to know, that is consideredI kinda like the two inserter recipes. The iron one is cheaper early on when steel is more expensive. Even the iron version is a bit more expensive than the burner inserters, but more capable (higher speed, doesn't need fuel), which I think is good. It adds the interesting result of wanting to use burner inserters where you can (where the belt has fuel), and electric ones where you have to, as an upgrade. It gives the burner inserter some actual good use, which I felt it was really lacking in base.jodokus31 wrote: Ok, it checked the machine tool again. No Brushed Motor or I am really blind ... But if it is added, great.
I'm not sure, if the electric inserter has to available before. I use the crude burner quite often, give it 10 coal and then it runs for hours (and of course the new coke-driven burner, which really does help). Its a bit slower, but not that much.
Maybe it makes sense, to omit the iron recipe for inserters and have only the steel one. Dont know.
Now that you point it out, I am lacking some justification or incentive for the motor version b. To me, it feels like it should need a circuit so it can turn off and on, and basic run-on-its-own stuff like that. The copper cable replaces the circuit in the version a only to make it available earlier, as needed for electric inserters and steam electricity generators. That being said, I am trying to think of some better obvious reason like you said, to use the motor b instead of the motor a. Ultimately the iron plate and iron-lead shaft become obsolete, but maybe that is not so strong because better iron ratios even with basic smelting can be researched. I could add wood directly to the motor a, but then that's too much wood counting the early coils. I could double the iron shaft cost, maybe that would work... Needs more thought.jodokus31 wrote: The second brushed motor recipe is not only more expensive iron wise, but it needs a circuit instead of copper cable. And if steel or iron will equal out later doesnt help in this state. If I already setup a facility for iron type crafting motors or inserter, what will me force to use the new recipe? So I wonder, if there could be a more obvious reason, to use the second recipe, other than "the higher level machine cant craft it" (f.e. similar to the wood reason with simple coils)
This is exactly the case. Only getting to it as I play through.jodokus31 wrote: For the science costs: Those costs are not really bother me, but it looked a bit inconsistent, having a green tech in between of reds only (and the need for handcrafting of course
Yes! This is the same thing I have run into, where I set up batch production for a lot of early stuff. It makes the full automation so much more deliciously rewardingjodokus31 wrote: Automation is a term, which could be used differently. It could mean, that every thing runs without much need to intervent or handcrafting, From the mine to the product (science, belts, etc.). But it could also mean, to setup assemblers which are fed manually to do some batch work into chests. The last one, I really use much in the early game to have handcrafting capacity for important stuff. For red science automation it means, i have the assembler with red science and one machine for simple coils, fed manually. And having 2 gear wheel maker for all needs, which i feed into the red science assembler every 5 mins. In the long run, it should really be setup more persistent, but it is really efficient and fast to setup.
What i want to say, setting up automation is not all (everything is automatic) or nothing (everything is handcrafted), it can be gradually. So for science 0, there are some techs remaining , which can be semiautomated like this. No need to change it, just was an idea to have more need to automate it properly
It then felt very good, every time that I fully automated another ingredient and could start stocking it in my inventor for making machines and stuff.This helps me because it reminds me to explain my thought process in making everything. I get so used to it that it gets confusing, and I need to explain it to other people to really define what the mod is and why I made it a certain way.jodokus31 wrote: Great thing, if my comments are helpful
You could extend the crafting time for the motors, alot. They are not so much needed in the beginning. Same for the iron inserters. That would be even a bit realistic, that lower quality parts needs more time to assemble. The player has to finetune the mechanical parts instead of using a circuit. I dont know, if that is strong enough.Repofme1 wrote:I could double the iron shaft cost, maybe that would work... Needs more thought.
Aha, crafting time! That would make a lot of sense. Because with the very small need for hand crafting green science (that I want, may not have yet), the number of hand-crafted iron inserters will probably be not too bad. I just did that in my latest build.jodokus31 wrote:You could extend the crafting time for the motors, alot. They are not so much needed in the beginning. Same for the iron inserters. That would be even a bit realistic, that lower quality parts needs more time to assemble. The player has to finetune the mechanical parts instead of using a circuit. I dont know, if that is strong enough.Repofme1 wrote:I could double the iron shaft cost, maybe that would work... Needs more thought.
Regarding iron-shafts. They are actually needed in iron-gear-mechnism, which is unique part in some things which are needed later, like offshore pump(if i recall correctly)
EDIT: Checked again. Iron gear mechanism are needed in Offshore pump and Steam Engine, which wont have a later game replacement?
If that is true, those crude iron stuff wont become obsolete completely.
Sounds nice. I hope, that nobody will complainRepofme1 wrote:Aha, crafting time! That would make a lot of sense. Because with the very small need for hand crafting green science (that I want, may not have yet), the number of hand-crafted iron inserters will probably be not too bad. I just did that in my latest build.jodokus31 wrote:You could extend the crafting time for the motors, alot. They are not so much needed in the beginning. Same for the iron inserters. That would be even a bit realistic, that lower quality parts needs more time to assemble. The player has to finetune the mechanical parts instead of using a circuit. I dont know, if that is strong enough.Repofme1 wrote:I could double the iron shaft cost, maybe that would work... Needs more thought.
Regarding iron-shafts. They are actually needed in iron-gear-mechnism, which is unique part in some things which are needed later, like offshore pump(if i recall correctly)
EDIT: Checked again. Iron gear mechanism are needed in Offshore pump and Steam Engine, which wont have a later game replacement?
If that is true, those crude iron stuff wont become obsolete completely.
This is a good solution, I think.Repofme1 wrote: Drat, it's that Sol-darned offshore pump! That thing is so awkward. I only ever make so few of them that I forget they're still needed for the rest of the game. Especially so with all the chemistry and other stuff that uses water in XM... I'll have to rectify that problem, maybe with an alternate recipe for the pump, maybe with a whole new pump that is more powerful. I'm liking the latter, and making the regular pump weaker. I do have a late-mid way to condense water out of the air, which can provide it anywhere, but that is slow and needs a lot of machines, and just making a pipe is cheap, so I do want a better offshore pump.
Yes, steam engines are sort of early/mid game. I really like those in bobs mod, because they are getting better and you dont need such an ridicilous amount of them. However. nuclear or solar is propably much more sensefull, once you have it. Solar is kind of the end end game way, because it doesnt kill UPS so much.Repofme1 wrote: I mention the pump before the steam engine because coal -> steam energy generation eventually moves on to a better mid-game system of the superheating boiler and steam turbine. Or even the late-game nuclear reactor, heat exchanger, and then steam turbine. So I'm not *so* worried about that one. Although maybe I should make a better steel version recipe for the steam engine, for the sake of making it possible to completely stop using the old parts. Even though the regular steam engine gets replaced, that takes a long time. It would not be fun to keep having to use crap parts that long. I might just make a new recipe for the steam engine, and not a new entity. EDIT: This is because piston-cylinder steam engines, like how the base on looks, were actually replaced pretty early, like late 1800s or early 1900s. Basic, smaller, lower-temperature steam turbines actually came along quite early, so if I add any mid-game steam engine upgrade it will be a weaker steam turbine.
I did notice that about the slow belts when I was playing... Something like recycling them should definitely be coming eventually. I do really like the idea of recycling all the parts of old things, but stuff doesn't really wear out in Factorio (well, unless you use the Wear and Tear mod, but that's a different story. Really like the idea of that mod by the way), so there is usually not much use for recycling. Also there are so many machines and items that it would be a crazy amount of work to add recycling recipes for them all.jodokus31 wrote: One other thing: I have already a big amount of those slow belts, which will become obsolete. But they cant be reused anywhere. Since the stack to 50, they will take a lot of storage space. Maybe, it could be good, to recycle them in any way. I could use the recycling mod, which disassembly every thing. You already said, that you are like those old artifacts from the beginning, but maybe you could do an exception for those slow belts.
This is not at any special breaking point with features, but I'm posting it now to fix some problems and add what I can. I likely won't be able to access the Internet for the next 7-10 days, so I wanted to leave you all with the latest build. Quick summary:Thanks.I'll check it later. Have nice vacationsRepofme1 wrote:Hi all -
Like the title says
Science: balanced (reduced) some costs, and fixed recursive prerequisites with blue and military science
Early game balancing: changed recipe times, clarified recipe category separation between burner and electric
Further progression, early electric: added some things to replace the crude early versions (namely non-wood soda source)
Aesthetics: some new graphics, one locale tweak (Just realized: I forgot the locale for the new offshore pump. Will be in next update.)
Check if out if you have time.
the mod did not load yours ..