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JigSaW wrote: Sun Aug 11, 2024 1:22 am It is indeed a standard practice that benefits the developer,

I think having more content and a game optimized while the price doesn't increase because i bought it early and the devs keep working on it while not trying to make me buy a DLC during few years is a practice that benefit me. I have well understood your opinion it's about 1/3 of your post on this forum where you seem to try hard to invalidate your feedback while flagging yourself as a non-customer, since the policy of no sales exist for several years it's weird for me you that you insist on this particular post to talk about that.

mmmPI wrote: Sun Aug 11, 2024 2:08 am

JigSaW wrote: Sun Aug 11, 2024 1:22 am It is indeed a standard practice that benefits the developer,

I think having more content and a game optimized while the price doesn't increase because i bought it early and the devs keep working on it while not trying to make me buy a DLC during few years is a practice that benefit me. I have well understood your opinion it's about 1/3 of your post on this forum where you seem to try hard to invalidate your feedback while flagging yourself as a non-customer, since the policy of no sales exist for several years it's weird for me you that you insist on this particular post to talk about that.

I don't insist on anything, people keep replying asking to clarify my opinion so I keep doing it. I'm not trying to prove anything nor make anyone share my view. As for "flagging myself as a non-customer", I'm okay with my feedback being ignored if that's what it takes for it to be considered.

Koub wrote: Sun Aug 11, 2024 6:51 am [Koub] OK now this off topic discussion has been going long enough. Please lend it here, or I'll remove it all together.

I think nothing would be lost if the off topic was removed from this unsolicited part that the author mistakingly claim was required for clarification or asked by other player as a question :

i won't, i'll pirate it

I don't think this is an answer to any question or demand of clarifications. The argument was about the tesla turret, but this particular sentence , as explained by its author later, is about the no sales policy. Which is indeed off topic, it has nothing to do with the tesla turret nor what was discussed before or the current FFF, as was revealed later it can even be safely ignored according the author. As such i don't think anyone would feel bad if you were to remove the offtopic parts.

To stay on topic :

I went back to my space exploration save, because i thought i had missed the tesla turrets, but i can't seem to find them, i can see the tesla gun, but no tesla turrets. Therefore i also think the previous statement of "Yet another "new" thing I've already seen and experienced in the completely free Space Exploration mod " is wrong. And not only because it misses the technical part explaining how different in their functionning the space age tesla turret and modded version that existed before would be. But also because there is only a tesla gun in the mod space exploration so that makes it not possible to experience the tesla turret imo.

There are tesla coil in the mod Krastorio 2, but it has nothing to do with the tesla turret presented in the FFF. it's not a weapon. There are mods with tesla turrets on the portal, but those are not space exploration.

mmmPI wrote: Sun Aug 11, 2024 8:40 am I went back to my space exploration save, because i thought i had missed the tesla turrets, but i can't seem to find them, i can see the tesla gun, but no tesla turrets. Therefore i also think the previous statement of "Yet another "new" thing I've already seen and experienced in the completely free Space Exploration mod " is wrong. And not only because it misses the technical part explaining how different in their functionning the space age tesla turret and modded version that existed before would be. But also because there is only a tesla gun in the mod space exploration so that makes it not possible to experience the tesla turret imo.

There are tesla coil in the mod Krastorio 2, but it has nothing to do with the tesla turret presented in the FFF. it's not a weapon. There are mods with tesla turrets on the portal, but those are not space exploration.

I remember Tesla Turrets from Industrial Revolution, probably not part of vanilla SE, and likely a Krastorio thing maybe.

GregoriusT wrote: Sun Aug 11, 2024 11:23 am I remember Tesla Turrets from Industrial Revolution, probably not part of vanilla SE, and likely a Krastorio thing maybe.

I can only see "arc turret" from industrial revolution, but those deals no damage, they slow/ stun ennmy. It ressemble because the arc chain too, but it's a little different, it seem like a "support" turret.

Those from Krastorio they are pylons that charge grid equipment from vehicule/player armor they are not a weapon.

From gameplay and the last video, it seem to me that those tesla turrets in space age may be able to replace artillery, in that their range seem to be enough to kill worms that could settle near it ( and there is legendary version). This without any supply of "physical" thing like iron required for artillery shell. Like long range defense for late game with potential to be used as the only defense maybe. Things that artillery or lasers can't do on their own.

mmmPI wrote: Sun Aug 11, 2024 12:28 pm From gameplay and the last video, it seem to me that those tesla turrets in space age may be able to replace artillery, in that their range seem to be enough to kill worms that could settle near it ( and there is legendary version). This without any supply of "physical" thing like iron required for artillery shell. Like long range defense for late game with potential to be used as the only defense maybe. Things that artillery or lasers can't do on their own.

Just a reminder, Gun Turrets and maybe some other Turrets have higher range with higher qualities. Not sure if uncommon or rare would be enough for behemoth worms, but what i do know is that defensive roboports with landmines are enough for them! MUAHAHAHAHA!!!

GregoriusT wrote: Sun Aug 11, 2024 2:58 pm Just a reminder, Gun Turrets and maybe some other Turrets have higher range with higher qualities. Not sure if uncommon or rare would be enough for behemoth worms, but what i do know is that defensive roboports with landmines are enough for them! MUAHAHAHAHA!!!

I thought i knew this game, but i don't think i have ever seen someone using only robotports and landmines as defense. I want to try that now !

They do cost a bit of steel though, so to me it's still a little different as tesla turrets, or legendary laser that would have enough range to kill behemoth worms that could decide to settle near it ( and if there are no different longer range hostile surprise).

mmmPI wrote: Mon Aug 12, 2024 2:51 pm I thought i knew this game, but i don't think i have ever seen someone using only robotports and landmines as defense. I want to try that now !

They do cost a bit of steel though, so to me it's still a little different as tesla turrets, or legendary laser that would have enough range to kill behemoth worms that could decide to settle near it ( and if there are no different longer range hostile surprise).

Yeah Speedrunners seem to call it "Defensive Roboports" when I looked into Landmines. Also the Steel may make it look expensive, but its cheaper than Yellow Ammo! (sorry for this offtopic tangent, just wanted to inform about how awesome warcrimes landmines are in Factorio)

GregoriusT wrote: Mon Aug 12, 2024 3:39 pm Yeah Speedrunners seem to call it "Defensive Roboports" when I looked into Landmines. Also the Steel may make it look expensive, but its cheaper than Yellow Ammo! (sorry for this offtopic tangent, just wanted to inform about how awesome warcrimes landmines are in Factorio)

I knew of them used offensively to attack nest, or defensively as in when you realize you don't have anymore ammo and run back to base while leaving a few behind. but again not as unique defense without wall or turrets.

I suppose it has some limits if you are facing constant stream of ennemies, as the robots might be taken as target, or mines before they burrow, those casualties could rise the cost. Also with things like expensive receipe, losing a bot is a lot of iron ore. Or if all mines explode on single small biter vs behemoth, the damage per mine can vary. I think the tesla turret has none of those limitations since it only cost energy.

I will report on my attempts at using only landmines as defense in the meantime x)

I'm going to ask you a trivial question. Does Nikola Tesla exist in the world of factorio?

Hello all,

I'm stepping into the discussion for the first time here and want to say the art on the telsa turret looks really nice.
However, I would like to make two suggestions. On regarding the sound and one about the propagation of the charge beam.

Sound: I like the sounds associated with the turret and its motion, but the sound of the charged beam is underwhelming. Electricity is LOUD. So loud it is hard to believe sometimes. It is heating the local medium into plasma which expands in volume, lowering local pressure along the charged beam. Then the immense weight of the atmosphere collapses into itself in a clapping motion. This gives us THUNDER. I understand from a game perspective that it may not be productive to have a constant rolling thunder in the background if your anywhere close to your walls and a deafening sound if you're at the walls. Before this discussion continues, I think it will be worthwhile to talk about the propagation of the beam.

Beam Propagation: Electricity is FAST. Charge that wants out will come and go in an instant. It will find ground and nothing short of an insulated faraday cage will stop it. In the linked video from FFF#442 (https://cdn.factorio.com/assets/blog-sy ... aining.mp4) you can see the charge leave the turret and 'travels' to the first bug. It maybe jumps to one or two more bugs before the source cuts out. It then continues to chain to the rest of the pack for around a second. Electricity is going to find its path of least resistance and then spend its entire potential in an instant. Inspect this video of a lightning strike (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mHZQM9ZBNb4). I don't think we need positively charged feeler growing out from the bugs, but I believe the telsa tower should give one of the scariest natural effects in nature a better representation.

How to address this within the game: First, let's go to the extreme and work backwards as this seems a worthwhile endeavor.

The Extreme: "A typical lightning flash is about 300 million Volts and about 30,000 Amps." - NWS (https://www.weather.gov/safety/lightning-power). We can quickly use P=V*I (Power = Voltage * Current) to find our lightning bolt relaxes around 9 TW of power from the local field. Let's imagine a situation where the tesla tower had an extremely long cooldown since keeping that kind of power around on demand is not reasonable. So, let's assume that the tesla turret has a magic capacitor inside of it that takes some large amount of minutes T to charge. When it shoots, it sends out a feeler beam (more amplitude than the current beam, essentially less of a linear beam, the game 'knows' where it's going but the eye may not) that, once it reaches the first enemy, nearly instantaneously chains to all targets/objects nearby (in a more linear sense). This is where the sound comes in, and come to think of it, maybe a frame or two of blinding light. The immediate saturation of both visual and sound senses followed by an immediate (relatively) quiet and dark scene can create strong emotion. Trees hit could ember and glow just a little and have a chance of going up in flame and bugs hit should continue to crackle and pop as the moisture inside of them boils away. Maybe even a little steam. The visuals and sound of the lightening itself should be gone as soon as it came with maybe a little echo on the thunder. The damage and range of the turret should be immense. Maybe even antiquating artillery before arty research is started. I'm not sure the order that these turrets will be unlocked.

This is becoming a little longwinded, so I'll try to summarize my point here. I think that our negatively charged pals, the electron, deserve to be represented in the game with a degree of power (haha) that's more in line with their destructive ability in nature. Electricity is SCARY and the way charged beams are represented in FFF#442 and SE may be practical but is not representative of the true destructive power being dealt with here. The player should FEAR these towers and their effects to the same degrees as the bugs. Electricity does not pick sides.

I'll leave walking back this idea into something that fits into the gameplay of Factorio as an exercise for the reader. Please leave your thoughts below!

ps. Maybe the player can't get near the towers if they are energized

Thanks for sharing the technical details, I want to say I understood about 90% of what you said, which is working as a good confidence booster for some of my own game dev projects.

mexmer wrote: Fri Aug 02, 2024 11:43 am this tower sparked my curiosity

Yeah, the post was pretty intellectually stimulating. Shocking even!
(I can almost hear the stunned silence at my bad puns)