CyberCider wrote: Fri May 03, 2024 11:53 pm
Saphira123456 wrote: Fri May 03, 2024 11:25 pm
Yeah, I've read all the FFFs since version two point zero of the game was announced, and the crafting tree isn't upside down on any planet. It's identical on them all.
Sure there are a few new ways to obtain the resources you want, whether that's through recycling scrap or through but harvesting molten metal (lava) instead of breaking down ores, but that could have been implemented on Nauvis and there would have been no significant changes to gameplay other than a couple new buildings.
Everything is going to be almost identical to 1.1. The exceptions are a few new options for buildings - those elevated rails, the foundry and the recycler, etcetera - the voiding mechanic, and a few pretty new planets to build on. The significant parts of the expansion (voiding and recycling) have mostly already been added through mods, and there's nothing saying the other new buildings couldn't be similar.
It's all going to be identical to 1.1, just with some extra buildings, extra and simplified rocket launches, and some scenery changes. Nothing really that new or different except for graphics.
Find raw material. Build extractor (drills or offshore pump). Build smelting equipment (furnaces or foundry). Build assemblers. Optional: Build defenses (IF you have Biters turned on.) Done. Move onto the next planet.
OR (on the scrap planet): Build extractor. Build recyclers. Build assemblers. (Optional: Build defenses). Done. Move on to the next planet.
Identical gameplay loop in 1.1 AND 2.0, with cosmetic differences only. The whole expansion so far seems to be more akin to a cosmetic scenery pack than a proper gameplay expansion, since there's very little that's going to be different gameplaywise.
No matter what minor gameplay changes they make, Factorio will be Factorio. They can slap a fancy new version number on it, but they might as well call it 1.2 rather than 2.0, since at its' core this update appears to be just a fancier 1.1 with extra added buildings.
By “upside down”, I meant the part where you, for example, start with blue circuits and turn them into green circuits, instead of the other way around. I thought it was a pretty clear analogy.
Anyway, it looks to me like we’re just disagreeing over definitions. You seem to believe that “build assemblers” is one homogenous action that isn’t at all affected by what the assemblers are assembling, or out of what. And you also, for example, equate standard furnaces and foundries, despite their differences, just because they fill the same role. If that truly is how you view the game, then your statements are correct. You seem to just have a different approach to this game, one which I do not understand. And there’s nothing I can (or want to) do about that.
After all, I wouldn’t want this discussion to… “drag on”
So by "upside down" you mean recycling. Got it.
Of course there will be some minor differences. Number of assemblers, length of production lines. And other minor details.
And of course you have to manually assign what they're producing. That won't change between 1.1 and 2.0.
Again, these are minor changes compared to 1.1. The major changes are the fact that you can actually void unwanted products now, and you can actually recycle things, all in the vanilla game. To be perfectly honest, for these things it would have been cheaper and easier to just incorporate some existing mods into 1.1 and call it 1.2 since many of us have already been using mods to do these very things.
There are also some other sources of basic products, iron, copper and heavy oil. You still use the same old offshore pump to take the fluids, whether lava or heavy oil, and put it into a pipe network.
Some minor changes to elevate railroad tracks are another thing they've done as well, but again that feels like a mod.
The most significant change they've made on the ground is the removal of rocket control units as a component, and that's actually subtracting things, not adding them.
As for space, the space platform is indeed new gameplay. However, aside from its' limited construction area it just feels like a forced rehash of constructing things on the ground.
If they really wanted to have the gameplay changes they've made feel separated, they could have made a new, layered Nauvis with underground (lava) and above-ground (normal) gameplay. That would allow for both the volcanic and the normal biomes to exist separately while still allowing the engineer character and products to move between the two. Volcanoes on the surface would also be a thing.
Then certain parts of the planet could be filled with scrap, inclement weather could be added for the lightning, and underground lakes could be added for heavy oil.
There was no need to make new planets. None at all. I appreciate the hard work that went into them, but the singular product loop one uses to complete the game will not be changed in any significant manner. Reversed? Yes. Extended to repeat multiple times? Yes. Changed? No. Unique? No.
This isn't two point zero they're building, it's one point five. And IMHO, many of the changes such as recycling and voiding, should have been implemented in one point zero. Modders have made basically every significant mechanical change put into this expansion long before they made it official.
I may appreciate what they're doing but that doesn't make what they're doing necessary. It just introduces more variance and, to put it bluntly, more tedium. The same thing over and over and over again, ad nauseum. Again, just add the stuff to Nauvis.
