Can someone please tell me how to properly signal this

Don't know how to use a machine? Looking for efficient setups? Stuck in a mission?
Post Reply
User avatar
Locane
Long Handed Inserter
Long Handed Inserter
Posts: 88
Joined: Fri Jan 04, 2019 8:46 am
Contact:

Can someone please tell me how to properly signal this

Post by Locane »

I cannot figure out train signals. They behave in the opposite ways that I think they should in every test I do, and I am beyond frustrated at this point.

I have 2 iron mines on either end of a single, non-looped track.

*
|
|
|
|
|
|
*

On this track are two trains - each with engines on either end so they go back and forth on the same track.

In the middle of the track is my base, with a single spur off of it to the iron drop-off point:

*
|
|
|_______
|
|
|
*

All I want to do is have my trains wait before entering the spur if there is another train present. It shouldn't be that fucking difficult, and I feel stupid that I can't figure it out.

Can someone please tell me, step by step, how to properly signal this intersection?

Image

https://i.imgur.com/dt9H5lr.png

Mr. Tact
Filter Inserter
Filter Inserter
Posts: 460
Joined: Sat Mar 26, 2016 3:37 pm
Contact:

Re: Can someone please tell me how to properly signal this

Post by Mr. Tact »

Something like this:
two way y.jpg
two way y.jpg (155.76 KiB) Viewed 4659 times
Professional Curmudgeon since 1988.

User avatar
Locane
Long Handed Inserter
Long Handed Inserter
Posts: 88
Joined: Fri Jan 04, 2019 8:46 am
Contact:

Re: Can someone please tell me how to properly signal this

Post by Locane »

Here is what happens when I do that:

Image

https://i.imgur.com/xloVrOq.png

Zavian
Smart Inserter
Smart Inserter
Posts: 1641
Joined: Thu Mar 02, 2017 2:57 am
Contact:

Re: Can someone please tell me how to properly signal this

Post by Zavian »

I typically don't try to run more than 1 train on two tracks, but I think it will work if you replace those regular signals with chain signals. (In general once you need more than 1 train using a section of track, it is easier to upgrade to a dual track system. (Dual track also offers much better throughput, and scalability).

The general tutorial for signals I recommend is https://www.reddit.com/r/factorio/comme ... ts_23_and/

A forum post specifically about two way rail on a single thread (ie your situation) viewtopic.php?f=194&t=53937 .
Last edited by Zavian on Sun Jan 06, 2019 7:43 am, edited 1 time in total.

Loewchen
Global Moderator
Global Moderator
Posts: 8284
Joined: Wed Jan 07, 2015 5:53 pm
Contact:

Re: Can someone please tell me how to properly signal this

Post by Loewchen »

You can simply remove the two signals on the horizontal part of Mr. Tacts example for it to work without chain signals, but keep in mind that no matter how you signal this, you can only have two trains running in total with your setup.

User avatar
Locane
Long Handed Inserter
Long Handed Inserter
Posts: 88
Joined: Fri Jan 04, 2019 8:46 am
Contact:

Re: Can someone please tell me how to properly signal this

Post by Locane »

Jesus christ, why didn't anyone say that you have to signal every fucking intersection the track runs over no matter how far away or how feasible it is for a train to turn at it?

That would have saved me so much heartache and frustration.

Image
https://i.imgur.com/bNQVIJT.png

Koeppen
Manual Inserter
Manual Inserter
Posts: 1
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 1:04 pm
Contact:

Re: Can someone please tell me how to properly signal this

Post by Koeppen »

With chain-signals you could do it like this.
Train signal.jpg
Train signal.jpg (469.59 KiB) Viewed 4622 times
But basically all you need (as stated above) is regular signals after the split.
Train signal 2.jpg
Train signal 2.jpg (447.89 KiB) Viewed 4622 times

Loewchen
Global Moderator
Global Moderator
Posts: 8284
Joined: Wed Jan 07, 2015 5:53 pm
Contact:

Re: Can someone please tell me how to properly signal this

Post by Loewchen »

Locane wrote:
Sun Jan 06, 2019 1:11 pm
Jesus christ, why didn't anyone say that you have to signal every fucking intersection the track runs over no matter how far away or how feasible it is for a train to turn at it?

That would have saved me so much heartache and frustration.
Yeah, why would people answer the specific question you actually asked instead of assuming that you generally have no clue and did not find it necessary to learn the absolute basics yourself or spend three minutes on the train tutorial...

RinDiddy
Inserter
Inserter
Posts: 24
Joined: Sat Sep 22, 2018 1:13 pm
Contact:

Re: Can someone please tell me how to properly signal this

Post by RinDiddy »

This isn't the answer you are looking for.

If that were my logistics, I would split the track into two. That way you don't have to deal with a train being stopped unless it's loading/unloading. Trains stopping without getting/moving items is a waste.

Just by adding a bit of belts/underground belts you could more than make up for the slight loss of distance traveled.

This is of course if you don't absolutely have to have the train unload into the base.

Mr. Tact
Filter Inserter
Filter Inserter
Posts: 460
Joined: Sat Mar 26, 2016 3:37 pm
Contact:

Re: Can someone please tell me how to properly signal this

Post by Mr. Tact »

Derp. Sorry about that. Should have known better than to suggest (without testing) a setup I wasn't extremely familiar with. That's the thing about rail signalling, even when you've played for thousands of hours you can still mess it up... :mrgreen:
Professional Curmudgeon since 1988.

bobucles
Smart Inserter
Smart Inserter
Posts: 1669
Joined: Wed Jun 10, 2015 10:37 pm
Contact:

Re: Can someone please tell me how to properly signal this

Post by bobucles »

The general rule of junctions is:
- Full signal after the junction
- Work backwards
- Chain signal every single place that rails cross until you reach the start of the junction
- Don't space your junctions any closer than your biggest full train length

Single tracks are much harder to signal than twin 1-way tracks. Start with 1-way tracks, it takes more rail but it will make your life a lot easier.

There are more fancy ways to get things done but follow these steps and it'll solve 95% of your railroad troubles.

Kyralessa
Filter Inserter
Filter Inserter
Posts: 442
Joined: Thu Sep 29, 2016 5:58 pm
Contact:

Re: Can someone please tell me how to properly signal this

Post by Kyralessa »

Locane wrote:
Sun Jan 06, 2019 1:11 pm
[profanity], why didn't anyone say that you have to signal every [vulgarity] intersection the track runs over no matter how far away or how feasible it is for a train to turn at it?

That would have saved me so much heartache and frustration.
Probably because it isn't true?

The basic rule of thumb is that you use chain signals before an intersection and regular signals after. That way you don't block the intersection.

But it really depends on your layout. If you have one train, you don't have to signal anything. If you have two trains, you only have to signal the part they share, so they don't both go at the same time.

If you have one-way tracks going in opposite directions, it makes things much easier. You'll save yourself a lot of trouble until you get better at signaling.

And when you get better at signaling, hey, then you won't have to cuss at all of us just because you don't understand how it works.

je11693
Fast Inserter
Fast Inserter
Posts: 112
Joined: Wed Sep 19, 2018 8:01 pm
Contact:

Re: Can someone please tell me how to properly signal this

Post by je11693 »

bobucles wrote:
Mon Jan 07, 2019 4:41 pm
The general rule of junctions is:
- Full signal after the junction
- Work backwards
- Chain signal every single place that rails cross until you reach the start of the junction
- Don't space your junctions any closer than your biggest full train length

Single tracks are much harder to signal than twin 1-way tracks. Start with 1-way tracks, it takes more rail but it will make your life a lot easier.

There are more fancy ways to get things done but follow these steps and it'll solve 95% of your railroad troubles.
What about for tracks that merge (rather than cross each other)? Should you use a chain signal or a normal rail signal in these situations?

JimBarracus
Filter Inserter
Filter Inserter
Posts: 365
Joined: Mon Jul 03, 2017 9:14 am
Contact:

Re: Can someone please tell me how to properly signal this

Post by JimBarracus »

je11693 wrote:
Mon Jan 07, 2019 9:26 pm
What about for tracks that merge (rather than cross each other)? Should you use a chain signal or a normal rail signal in these situations?
give the track with higher priority the normal signal
if there is no priority it doesnt matter which one you use

User avatar
disentius
Filter Inserter
Filter Inserter
Posts: 694
Joined: Fri May 12, 2017 3:17 pm
Contact:

Re: Can someone please tell me how to properly signal this

Post by disentius »

A chain signal looks ahead along the tracks to the next signal(s)on that track.
Simplified:
- all signals ahead are red -> red
- at least one signal ahead green -> blue
- all signals green -> green
- no other signal found -> any train anywhere on the rails somewhere ahead of the signal will turn the chain signal red. This includes crossing tracks.
Last edited by disentius on Wed Jan 09, 2019 7:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Blinky
Burner Inserter
Burner Inserter
Posts: 15
Joined: Sat Jan 06, 2018 9:12 am
Contact:

Re: Can someone please tell me how to properly signal this

Post by Blinky »

disentius wrote:
Tue Jan 08, 2019 5:54 pm
A chain signal looks ahead along the tracks to the next signal(s)on that track.
Simplified:
- all signals ahead are red -> red
- at least one signal ahead green -> blue
- all signals green -> green
- no other signal found -> any train anywhere on the rails somwhere ahead of the signal will turn the chain signal red. This includes crossing tracks.
Chain Signals only look ahead to the next signal along only. Not all of them.
ImageImage

User avatar
disentius
Filter Inserter
Filter Inserter
Posts: 694
Joined: Fri May 12, 2017 3:17 pm
Contact:

Re: Can someone please tell me how to properly signal this

Post by disentius »

@blinky: Should have stated that more precise.
They look one Block ahead; and a block can have more signals at the other end. (hence the "blue" signal)
Chain 0.png
Chain 0.png (645.02 KiB) Viewed 4419 times
chain 1.png
chain 1.png (753.98 KiB) Viewed 4419 times
Chain 2.png
Chain 2.png (706.84 KiB) Viewed 4419 times

Blinky
Burner Inserter
Burner Inserter
Posts: 15
Joined: Sat Jan 06, 2018 9:12 am
Contact:

Re: Can someone please tell me how to properly signal this

Post by Blinky »

@Disentius Yes! Of course you are correct. I was just talking simplistically.
ImageImage

User avatar
disentius
Filter Inserter
Filter Inserter
Posts: 694
Joined: Fri May 12, 2017 3:17 pm
Contact:

Re: Can someone please tell me how to properly signal this

Post by disentius »

@blinky:
So was I. Thanks for forcing me to explain. ;)

Post Reply

Return to “Gameplay Help”