Factorio Forums

TL;DR

The way the turret priority algorithm works means that in practice railguns will prioritize last any damaged huge asteroid, even if close to them, resulting in spaceship damage sometimes.

What?

I included a savefile with an example where the top-left railgun turret will not shoot at the nearest huge oxide asteroid, till its too late.

Ideally the algorithm for the turret priority would change, but that can have other issues, so I think the easiest way to "solve" this would be to set explosive damage resistance to 100% on huge asteroids. Realistically you almost never destroy any of them with explosive/laser damage, and while you can avoid laser damage with priority, you realistically cannot avoid it with explosive, so the only practical effect of having those resistances to 99% is that it messes up the railgun targeting priority (I guess maybe you could destroy them with explosives/lasers on a really slow ship).

Why?

Because changing this will make the spaceship take less damage

Er... You can specify targets for turrets, and that's sensible because you won't shoot at every asteroid with railguns, or waste missiles on huge chunks...

Factoruser wrote: Sat Mar 29, 2025 12:30 pm Er... You can specify targets for turrets, and that's sensible because you won't shoot at every asteroid with railguns, or waste missiles on huge chunks...

I think you missed the entire point... Have you made a prom ship and dl-ed the savefile I attached?

Change to normal rockets or use quality turrets to increase range. If it's too late and explosive rockets damage ship by shooting that asteroid, then upgrade ship design too. Rocket and railgun next to each other. Haven't had any issues with half way to shattered planet or around it

erkki772 wrote: Sat Mar 29, 2025 2:13 pm Change to normal rockets or use quality turrets to increase range. If it's too late and explosive rockets damage ship by shooting that asteroid, then upgrade ship design too. Rocket and railgun next to each other. Haven't had any issues with half way to shattered planet or around it

also missed the point and didn't check the savefile.

It's all legendary. And who does a decent prom ship with normal rockets? If your ship can do similar SPM with similar UPS cost to mine with normal rockets then I'd love to see that

But yeah I know the "solutions". I could also just double up on turrets. The point is a single turret works except in this case where once every hour or so the ship will take damage just cause of the target priority.

konage wrote: Fri Mar 28, 2025 11:34 pm

What?

I included a savefile with an example where the top-left railgun turret will not shoot at the nearest huge oxide asteroid, till its too late.

Not at my computer. What target priority do you have set on the railgun and what are the types of the other asteroids?

computeraddict wrote: Sat Mar 29, 2025 5:18 pm

konage wrote: Fri Mar 28, 2025 11:34 pm

What?

I included a savefile with an example where the top-left railgun turret will not shoot at the nearest huge oxide asteroid, till its too late.

Not at my computer. What target priority do you have set on the railgun and what are the types of the other asteroids?

What do you mean? If you downloaded the savefile and checked the top-left railgun you can see what I have

konage wrote: Sat Mar 29, 2025 5:49 pm What do you mean? If you downloaded the savefile and checked the top-left railgun you can see what I have

computeraddict wrote: Sat Mar 29, 2025 5:18 pm Not at my computer. What target priority do you have set on the railgun and what are the types of the other asteroids?

computeraddict wrote: Sun Mar 30, 2025 4:09 am

konage wrote: Sat Mar 29, 2025 5:49 pm What do you mean? If you downloaded the savefile and checked the top-left railgun you can see what I have

computeraddict wrote: Sat Mar 29, 2025 5:18 pm Not at my computer. What target priority do you have set on the railgun and what are the types of the other asteroids?

?? When you say not at my computer you mean you aren't willing to download and run the savefile or that you ran it and the huge asteroid didn't get destroyed after being VERY close to the spaceship?

Here's another example (savefile also attached). The huge carbonic asteroid at the top as indicated in the pic will get slightly damaged by explosives and thus de-prioritized. Turret 6 will briefly try to shoot it before it gets out of its LOS (use show-selected-turret-target), then turret 4 will be aiming at a carbonic behind it but it will get destroyed by a different railgun, and that's where the problem happens. Instead of turret 4 switching to the damaged huge carbonic which is now the closest to it, it switches to a different huge carbonic further to the right and further away, even though nothing else is aiming at the nearest damaged huge carbonic one.

konage wrote: Wed Apr 16, 2025 3:10 pm

It looks like you need more railguns. I use at least double the density you have. I also set some railguns to target big asteroids to help out the rocket turrets.

quineotio wrote: Fri Apr 18, 2025 3:18 am

konage wrote: Wed Apr 16, 2025 3:10 pm

It looks like you need more railguns. I use at least double the density you have. I also set some railguns to target big asteroids to help out the rocket turrets.

yes more railguns, slower speed normal rockets, maybe 0 collectors. Please stop giving advice unrelated. I know the "solutions"...

Again, the point is the targeting priority not working as well in case of of huge asteroids and railguns because of the one-shot mechanic while everything else does practically 0 dmg to them...

sigh, in any case check for your prom ships, if they are safe 99.99% of the time and once in a while they get hit, its probably from a damaged huge asteroid.

konage wrote: Fri Apr 18, 2025 3:38 am

You can keep complaining about the game instead of your faulty design, or you could change your faulty design. I don't have the problem you are having.

quineotio wrote: Fri Apr 18, 2025 4:29 am

konage wrote: Fri Apr 18, 2025 3:38 am

You can keep complaining about the game instead of your faulty design, or you could change your faulty design. I don't have the problem you are having.

you are so much smarter than me.

why should the explosive resistance stay at 99%? give me one good reason, or why the target algorithm not change?

konage wrote: Fri Apr 18, 2025 4:32 am you are so much smarter than me.

There's no evidence for this, and even if there was, smart people happen to say bullshit too ! They just more prone to recognize and correct no ?

konage wrote: Fri Apr 18, 2025 4:32 am why should the explosive resistance stay at 99%? give me one good reason, or why the target algorithm not change?

Would make them immune to nukes if they had 100%.

Not a "good" reason, but 1 reason sorry x)

konage wrote: Fri Apr 18, 2025 4:32 am you are so much smarter than me.

If you really believe that, then why don't you take my advice? Replace the middle collectors with railguns.

quineotio wrote: Fri Apr 18, 2025 6:12 am

konage wrote: Fri Apr 18, 2025 4:32 am you are so much smarter than me.

If you really believe that, then why don't you take my advice? Replace the middle collectors with railguns.

I'll try to approach it from a different way:
If my ship was getting destroyed all the time and couldn't even survive one roundtrip, I'd agree with you. This specific one had done dozens of runs and survived. It had killed a total of >7 million huge asteroids before one, out of luck, managed to do catastrophic damage. Most likely, if your prom ship ever takes damage, but it only happens rarely, its probably for the same reason.
fwiw the prom ship I have in my actual playthrough has been running for 400 hours without getting destroyed. It also takes damage once in a while. My guess is most of the time its for the same reason. Once I realized how this de-prioritization is a thing, 3 out of 3 cases I checked in detail, were because of it. 2 of them I posted. Even if it turns out that the majority aren't because of the de-prioritization, its still not what you'd expect/prefer from railguns shooting targets that only they can kill and they can kill in 1-shot.
Or an even more scientific way to look at it, if the resistance WAS changed to 100% which maybe I can mod, and the ship still was equally likely to take damage (which of course it won't be equally likely, the two examples I have posted are proof enough), then I'd agree with you.

My ideal change would be that for turret priority we can also blacklist, so that turrets wouldn't have a priority based on the 4 different asteroids, but they would choose the closest one regardless of type. Additionally they would not care for its health or how much damage it has taken (which would need either a change in the code specifically for railguns and only after they can oneshot, which they cannot without a couple levels in railgun damage research OR a change where a checkmark option is on each turret where they allow them to prioritize the closest target regardless of health and at the same time no other railgun is actively targeting them). All of that is complex, take a lot of time and I think would be far more controversial. 100% resistance is probably only a 5 minute change and I still would like to hear how 99% benefits gameplay in any way...

Now if you are going to argue 99% resistance is Wube-intended specifically so that players have to deal with the targetting algorithm being affected in ways you may not expect, then I highly doubt they planned/predicted that. It was probably done for "aesthetic" reasons as 100% may have felt too unrealistic, but I think even that argument is somewhat meh. If you wanted to go for realism it wouldn't go from 10% resistance for big to 99% for huge. Obviously the asteroid resistances have been planned around gun/laser for small/medium, rockets for big and railguns for huge with a huge emphasis on gameplay rather than realism. Finally, if the developers respond that they aren't changing this for whatever reason, ill probably mod it myself and let people choose what they like I guess

konage wrote: Fri Apr 18, 2025 4:26 pm

I understand what you're saying. I guess I just view it like one of those jams that only happens rarely, but you can solve it by accounting for it. I have double the density of railguns on my current promethium ship and I've never had an issue. Which doesn't mean there never would be one, but so far after 104 completed trips it's worked. And on ships I've taken to the shattered planet I'd have even more, and it's worked.

As you say, it's something that only happens rarely, so it doesn't sound like a game-breaking issue. I just view it as a problem to be solved with ship design rather than a patch.

quineotio wrote: Fri Apr 18, 2025 5:32 pm

konage wrote: Fri Apr 18, 2025 4:26 pm

I understand what you're saying. I guess I just view it like one of those jams that only happens rarely, but you can solve it by accounting for it. I have double the density of railguns on my current promethium ship and I've never had an issue. Which doesn't mean there never would be one, but so far after 104 completed trips it's worked. And on ships I've taken to the shattered planet I'd have even more, and it's worked.

As you say, it's something that only happens rarely, so it doesn't sound like a game-breaking issue. I just view it as a problem to be solved with ship design rather than a patch.

Just cause something isn't game-breaking doesn't mean it shouldn't change. After all this is 'ideas and suggestions', not bugfixing. By that logic nothing should change, the game is fine enough overall.

What if the targeting algorithm worked in a way that railguns always targetted whatever asteroid was closest to getting out of their 30 degrees FOV? Then the railguns would spend more time switching targets and not actually firing. That wouldn't be game breaking either and you can make more turrets and "solve" it... If the game was like that would you find it fine too? Because if your answer is no, this is no different.

konage wrote: Fri Apr 18, 2025 4:26 pm Now if you are going to argue 99% resistance is Wube-intended specifically so that players have to deal with the targetting algorithm being affected in ways you may not expect, then I highly doubt they planned/predicted that. It was probably done for "aesthetic" reasons as 100% may have felt too unrealistic, but I think even that argument is somewhat meh.

Have you noticed how asteroids have 100% resistance to Tesla turrets ? And yet they fire on them ? your assumptions that 100% resist would solve the problem you describe aren't correct imo.