[0.15] Sea Block Pack 0.1.7

Too big and/or changes too much of the game to be fit anywhere else (formerly most Big Mods).
This is a place to discuss these large mods.

Re: [0.15] Sea Block Pack 0.1.7

Postby mrvn » Mon Dec 11, 2017 11:52 am

Riktol wrote:
Zavian wrote:Well you don't need shotguns or wooden chests.

Yeah I understand that some players might like to use them, but I can't see any reason why playing seablock without them is a problem.


If they aren't needed would you consider removing them to streamline the recipe list?
You could also remove shotgun ammo and such and the shotgun research tree.


Don't at least the wooden chests need wooden boards? You can make those. Or is that some other mod I have installed?
mrvn
Smart Inserter
Smart Inserter
 
Posts: 1372
Joined: Mon Sep 05, 2016 9:10 am

Re: [0.15] Sea Block Pack 0.1.7

Postby mrvn » Mon Dec 11, 2017 12:11 pm

For anyone tired of placing landfill by hand I uploaded a landfiller mod. It adds a new building, looks like a blueish radar. When placed it looks for a container adjacent to it that contains landfill. If then placed that landfill around any water tile around it in a widening circle up to 32 tiles to the left, right, top and bottom. While it spreads in a circle you end up with a square.

Things to note:

1) The building is based on a radar because only that triggers an event every now and then (when it has power). I tuned it a bit to be much faster than normal radars but I haven't considered what the right power consumption should be.
2) It will consume power and try to place landfill until there is no more water around it. If you are out of landfill it will still consume power.
3) If all water around it has been filled it stops. Should stop consuming power but I haven't verified that.
4) Due to landfill bugs it can create new water when placing landfill. It might not fill that in again. Have seen it create water but not water being left behind.
5) Every tile is only checked once for water. So if you use waterfill to create new water inside the border where it checks then it won't be filled. The landfiller does not restart operations when water is placed near it either. Deconstruct it and place it again to restart.
6) The landfiller is set to use burner energy so should run on coal. But somehow radars seem to ignore that.

Future plans:

- I want to make this a vehicle, sort of. So you place it on the beach, supply landfill and belts via a belt and it will fill in water in front of it, crawl forward and leave a new belt piece behind.

- Checking for an adjacent chest was easy. I have an idea to make the landfiller crawler have one head and then arms going to the side that you can you extend as wide as you want. The whole thing would then fill in water across it's whole width before moving forward.

- I need new graphics. The landfiller shouldn't look like a radar. Any artists able to design something?
mrvn
Smart Inserter
Smart Inserter
 
Posts: 1372
Joined: Mon Sep 05, 2016 9:10 am

Re: [0.15] Sea Block Pack 0.1.7

Postby deimosian » Tue Dec 12, 2017 6:16 am

Nice mod pack. I was wondering if you could make available, as an alternative installation method, a save game file made right after loading the game with the pack, it would allow a smaller download and then use of the sync mods feature now built into the game.
deimosian
Burner Inserter
Burner Inserter
 
Posts: 5
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2016 5:58 pm

Re: [0.15] Sea Block Pack 0.1.7

Postby mrvn » Tue Dec 12, 2017 10:26 am

Has anyone compared the cost of making ores from slag versus nodules?
mrvn
Smart Inserter
Smart Inserter
 
Posts: 1372
Joined: Mon Sep 05, 2016 9:10 am

Re: [0.15] Sea Block Pack 0.1.7

Postby hewhoispale » Tue Dec 12, 2017 2:42 pm

mrvn wrote:Has anyone compared the cost of making ores from slag versus nodules?

The math I recall is that making slag from electolyzers vs nodules from washing machines is that the electrolyzers require a lot more electricity and the washing machines require more space to set up to generate equivalent amounts of slurry. Both processes have useful byproducts as well.
hewhoispale
Burner Inserter
Burner Inserter
 
Posts: 5
Joined: Fri Dec 01, 2017 3:32 pm

Re: [0.15] Sea Block Pack 0.1.7

Postby mrvn » Wed Dec 13, 2017 5:10 pm

hewhoispale wrote:
mrvn wrote:Has anyone compared the cost of making ores from slag versus nodules?

The math I recall is that making slag from electolyzers vs nodules from washing machines is that the electrolyzers require a lot more electricity and the washing machines require more space to set up to generate equivalent amounts of slurry. Both processes have useful byproducts as well.


I'm comming to the same conclusion about energy. But while washing machines are slower you need less nodules for the same amount of slag. So without writing down the math to figure out the equivalent number of washing machines vs. electrolyzers I can't see a clear winner there.

Space you only pay once, in crushed stone. I'm at a point where I have more land than I have time to build on after testing my landfiller mod. Electricity on the other hand you have to pay constantly. So I think I will set up a second slag production using nodules. I need more ore anyway.

Further thought: Electricty costs a lot. That is unless you have lots of solar cells and only run the factory during the day. Then it becomes a matter of land again and some ore to make the solar cells. Do electrolyzer still need less room if you include the solar cells? Best would be to calculate the cost in mineral sludge to setup equivalent sludge factories both ways, including the landfill and solarcells to run them.
mrvn
Smart Inserter
Smart Inserter
 
Posts: 1372
Joined: Mon Sep 05, 2016 9:10 am

Plain or mixed ore sorting? again

Postby mrvn » Wed Dec 13, 2017 5:35 pm

I've setup automatic ore sorting for mixed chunk the other night and I noticed that I didn't plan for the mineral catalysts. I'm producing enough sludge to run all the filtration units and crystalizers. Exactly enough. So when I started to also create mineral catalysts my buffer tanks went empty.

That made me realize that the catalysts needed for the mixed sorting is a real cost and need to be added to the equation. Each catalyst is the equivalent of 2 ores. So instead of 100 sludge giving 4 bobs ores it is 150 sludge giving 4 bobs ores. While the plain sorting has 150 sludge giving 5 mixed bobs ores plus a slag (or 10 sludge). So plain sorting is 140 sludge to 5 mixed bobs ores.

Next I considered that 3 of those ores are iron and copper which you need anyway. You can get from mixed crushed ore sorting on a 25:1 ratio. So plain chunk sorting can be thought of as 75 + 65 sludge = 3 iron+copper + 2 mixed ores, or 65 sludge = 2 mixed ores, or 130 sludge = 4 mixed ores. 130 : 4 seems like a better ratio than 150:4.

So maybe the plain sorting recipes are usefull, as in more eficient, after all. Crystal sorting would have an even better ratio and plain purified sorting finally has a 25:1 ratio.
mrvn
Smart Inserter
Smart Inserter
 
Posts: 1372
Joined: Mon Sep 05, 2016 9:10 am

Re: [0.15] Sea Block Pack 0.1.7

Postby hewhoispale » Thu Dec 14, 2017 7:35 pm

mrvn wrote:I've setup automatic ore sorting for mixed chunk the other night and I noticed that I didn't plan for the mineral catalysts. I'm producing enough sludge to run all the filtration units and crystalizers. Exactly enough. So when I started to also create mineral catalysts my buffer tanks went empty.

That made me realize that the catalysts needed for the mixed sorting is a real cost and need to be added to the equation. Each catalyst is the equivalent of 2 ores. So instead of 100 sludge giving 4 bobs ores it is 150 sludge giving 4 bobs ores. While the plain sorting has 150 sludge giving 5 mixed bobs ores plus a slag (or 10 sludge). So plain sorting is 140 sludge to 5 mixed bobs ores.

Next I considered that 3 of those ores are iron and copper which you need anyway. You can get from mixed crushed ore sorting on a 25:1 ratio. So plain chunk sorting can be thought of as 75 + 65 sludge = 3 iron+copper + 2 mixed ores, or 65 sludge = 2 mixed ores, or 130 sludge = 4 mixed ores. 130 : 4 seems like a better ratio than 150:4.

So maybe the plain sorting recipes are usefull, as in more eficient, after all. Crystal sorting would have an even better ratio and plain purified sorting finally has a 25:1 ratio.


I hadn't seriously considered the cost of the mineral catalysts before.

The idea of tearing apart the entire top half of my base to convert the "direct" ore sorting columns into some sort of purified crystal sorting belt maze gives me some anxiety.

Although, on further consideration, wouldn't this make the system very vulnerable to unbalanced consumption of ores? If, for example, the system needs more gold or titanium but the lead buffer is full, then the purified crotinnium sorting will stop.

This seems like a late-game concern where one could math out the entire (fully developed & static) consumption chain to determine the needed ratios of ore to prevent ore generation stoppages.
hewhoispale
Burner Inserter
Burner Inserter
 
Posts: 5
Joined: Fri Dec 01, 2017 3:32 pm

Sea Block in 0.16

Postby mrvn » Sat Dec 16, 2017 2:21 pm

I've managed to update all the mods needed for Sea Block to 0.16 so they at least load.

I'm now stuck at fixing the resource autoplacing. I've currently hacked it so everything gets set to water despite the chunk generator placing lots of interesting landscapes. Also kills the aliens. Probably still a lot of bugs left but you can start a new map:

seablock-0.16.png
seablock-0.16.png (7.04 MiB) Viewed 390 times


So anyone know how the new autoplacing system works?
mrvn
Smart Inserter
Smart Inserter
 
Posts: 1372
Joined: Mon Sep 05, 2016 9:10 am

Re: Sea Block in 0.16

Postby NACH0CHEE5E » Sun Dec 17, 2017 2:43 am

mrvn wrote:I've managed to update all the mods needed for Sea Block to 0.16 so they at least load.

I'm now stuck at fixing the resource autoplacing. I've currently hacked it so everything gets set to water despite the chunk generator placing lots of interesting landscapes. Also kills the aliens. Probably still a lot of bugs left but you can start a new map:

seablock-0.16.png


So anyone know how the new autoplacing system works?


i dont know but can you like give me a download link to have alook at it?
NACH0CHEE5E
Manual Inserter
Manual Inserter
 
Posts: 4
Joined: Tue Apr 25, 2017 2:07 am

Re: [0.15] Sea Block Pack 0.1.7

Postby wzzl » Sun Dec 17, 2017 11:04 pm

Over 100 hours in I really like the modpack, although there are quite some things that could be improved.

However the thing I'm struggling with at the moment is geodes. It seems to be pointless to do anything with them:

-when you go the crushing route you can eventually refine them to polished gems. And while you use these in several recipes, they are all late-game and mostly in useless weapon tech; except for the ruby which is used in science. At any rate, I have three warehouses full of gems and it is most likely all I'll ever need, aside from more ruby.

-Then you can make crystal slurry from it and then made mineral sludge again. However to make 50 mineral sludge you need 100 mineralized water and about 37 sulfuric acid, while when using nodules you can get the same amount of mineral sludge with 12 sulfuric acid and just some easily accessible purified water. The triple cost of sulfuric acid alone doesn't make it worth it by far in both energy cost and amount of infrastructure. You're better of stashing the geodes and making more nodules.

Ergo geodes are useless, which is kind of dumb in a modpack which is about using scarce resources. I'd like the geode route to be more useful because right now all I can do with them is stash them in a warehouse and occasionally destroying it to delete the items.
wzzl
Burner Inserter
Burner Inserter
 
Posts: 10
Joined: Sat Mar 26, 2016 9:36 pm

Re: Sea Block in 0.16

Postby mrvn » Mon Dec 18, 2017 10:20 am

NACH0CHEE5E wrote:
mrvn wrote:I've managed to update all the mods needed for Sea Block to 0.16 so they at least load.

I'm now stuck at fixing the resource autoplacing. I've currently hacked it so everything gets set to water despite the chunk generator placing lots of interesting landscapes. Also kills the aliens. Probably still a lot of bugs left but you can start a new map:

seablock-0.16.png


So anyone know how the new autoplacing system works?


i dont know but can you like give me a download link to have alook at it?


I could, but then I would have to kill you.

Jokes aside, the licenses of some of the mods used don't allow distribution of changes. So sharing my fixes would be illegal. Go tar & feather those authors.
mrvn
Smart Inserter
Smart Inserter
 
Posts: 1372
Joined: Mon Sep 05, 2016 9:10 am

Re: [0.15] Sea Block Pack 0.1.7

Postby DrJones » Mon Dec 18, 2017 11:21 am

wzzl wrote:Over 100 hours in I really like the modpack, although there are quite some things that could be improved.

However the thing I'm struggling with at the moment is geodes. It seems to be pointless to do anything with them:

-when you go the crushing route you can eventually refine them to polished gems. And while you use these in several recipes, they are all late-game and mostly in useless weapon tech; except for the ruby which is used in science. At any rate, I have three warehouses full of gems and it is most likely all I'll ever need, aside from more ruby.

-Then you can make crystal slurry from it and then made mineral sludge again. However to make 50 mineral sludge you need 100 mineralized water and about 37 sulfuric acid, while when using nodules you can get the same amount of mineral sludge with 12 sulfuric acid and just some easily accessible purified water. The triple cost of sulfuric acid alone doesn't make it worth it by far in both energy cost and amount of infrastructure. You're better of stashing the geodes and making more nodules.

Ergo geodes are useless, which is kind of dumb in a modpack which is about using scarce resources. I'd like the geode route to be more useful because right now all I can do with them is stash them in a warehouse and occasionally destroying it to delete the items.


I agree with your analysis of turning geodes into mineral sludge. It's more expensive than making mineral sludge from scratch, so why bother?

Aren't the gems also used for modules? I fully intend to make quite a few of those.

Crystal slurry can also be turned into crystal seedlings and then into gems (so you can turn any geode into any gem), which helps reduce potential shortfalls of rubies for science.

However, already now I think I have way more geodes than I think I'll ever need for gems. Sadly, it's already at the point where I'm wondering if crystal slurry can be clarified, just to have an automated way to get rid of geodes.

Perhaps a crusher recipe to turn a geode into one crushed stone? That's something you can never get enough of in this mod pack, and turning into just one crushed stone means it's significantly worse than using slag. So perhaps that makes it balanced? At this point, I'd be happy even with two geodes for one crushed stone...
DrJones
Burner Inserter
Burner Inserter
 
Posts: 14
Joined: Thu Sep 08, 2016 11:13 pm

Re: Sea Block in 0.16

Postby NACH0CHEE5E » Mon Dec 18, 2017 11:31 am

mrvn wrote:
NACH0CHEE5E wrote:
mrvn wrote:I've managed to update all the mods needed for Sea Block to 0.16 so they at least load.

I'm now stuck at fixing the resource autoplacing. I've currently hacked it so everything gets set to water despite the chunk generator placing lots of interesting landscapes. Also kills the aliens. Probably still a lot of bugs left but you can start a new map:

seablock-0.16.png


So anyone know how the new autoplacing system works?


i dont know but can you like give me a download link to have alook at it?


I could, but then I would have to kill you.

Jokes aside, the licenses of some of the mods used don't allow distribution of changes. So sharing my fixes would be illegal. Go tar & feather those authors.


oh yeah that ok :D :D
NACH0CHEE5E
Manual Inserter
Manual Inserter
 
Posts: 4
Joined: Tue Apr 25, 2017 2:07 am

Re: [0.15] Sea Block Pack 0.1.7

Postby MINIMAN10000 » Mon Dec 18, 2017 11:32 am

I had an excess of crystal slurry and the rest went to making mineral sludge... but yes if you value sulfuric acid more than mineral sludge then you would have no way to deal with geodes. I like the idea of making crushed stone out of geodes personally.

Sulfuric acid can be produced with the sulfur processing research which allows you to take water through a process which produces an excess of sulfuric acid. I never actually calculated how quickly I was making sulfuric acid with this method.
MINIMAN10000
Burner Inserter
Burner Inserter
 
Posts: 15
Joined: Tue Mar 21, 2017 7:02 pm

Re: [0.15] Sea Block Pack 0.1.7

Postby wzzl » Mon Dec 18, 2017 11:45 am

MINIMAN10000 wrote:I had an excess of crystal slurry and the rest went to making mineral sludge... but yes if you value sulfuric acid more than mineral sludge then you would have no way to deal with geodes. I like the idea of making crushed stone out of geodes personally.

Sulfuric acid can be produced with the sulfur processing research which allows you to take water through a process which produces an excess of sulfuric acid. I never actually calculated how quickly I was making sulfuric acid with this method.


I do not value sulfuric acid over mineral sludge. My point is that you can also get mineral sludge with nodule processing which is both more resource efficient (uses less sulfuric acid and purified water instead of mineral water) and energy efficient (uses less machines).

As such there is no incentive to do anything with the geodes. If I want more mineral sludge, I'll scale up nodule production.

I also like the idea of getting crushed stone out of the geodes, however you're still stuck with warehouses full of gem ores.
wzzl
Burner Inserter
Burner Inserter
 
Posts: 10
Joined: Sat Mar 26, 2016 9:36 pm

Re: [0.15] Sea Block Pack 0.1.7

Postby MINIMAN10000 » Mon Dec 18, 2017 1:22 pm

I thought we were suggesting the idea of crushing geodes into stone.

Turning geodes into mineral sludge allows you to get more mineral sludge out of your resources you should have enough sulfuric acid floating around from sodium processing that it becomes practically unlimited and is a non issue.
MINIMAN10000
Burner Inserter
Burner Inserter
 
Posts: 15
Joined: Tue Mar 21, 2017 7:02 pm

Re: [0.15] Sea Block Pack 0.1.7

Postby jodokus31 » Mon Dec 18, 2017 1:41 pm

I think the issue is touching a basic issue of factorio itself: Waste products are not a big problems, since you can destroy them by shooting, flare or clarify them.
I think its a decision, whether to take the challenge to use them like intended or use the "factorio" shortcut to get rid of them.

Apart from that, i think it would be nice, if the gems or more crucial to proceed. Like more use in science packs. Actually, they are used in higher tier modules. It's maybe a nice challenge to create an equal amount of all the gems, because diamonds are more rare, if you just use the geode crushing. You would have to use gem crystalizing to produce the rest of the rarer gems. (Strange thing is, that the geode crushing yields much, much more gems than crystallizing IIRC its like 1:10...)
jodokus31
Fast Inserter
Fast Inserter
 
Posts: 157
Joined: Sun Feb 26, 2017 4:13 pm

Re: [0.15] Sea Block Pack 0.1.7

Postby MINIMAN10000 » Mon Dec 18, 2017 1:56 pm

I don't consider destroying them to be the intended use. The mineral sludge recipe for geodes is the only recipe that consumes enough geodes. I believe mineral sludge is the intended answer to the question "What do you do with geodes"

But yes I would agree geodes play very little in the grand scheme of things, the vast majority of my geodes that were used went to producing modules while the rest was turned to mineral sludge.
MINIMAN10000
Burner Inserter
Burner Inserter
 
Posts: 15
Joined: Tue Mar 21, 2017 7:02 pm

Re: [0.15] Sea Block Pack 0.1.7

Postby Metuk » Mon Dec 18, 2017 5:38 pm

Any idea on the eta for 0.16? I want to start a sea block run, but it seems foolish to start on 0.15 now.
Metuk
Manual Inserter
Manual Inserter
 
Posts: 1
Joined: Mon Dec 18, 2017 5:35 pm

PreviousNext

Return to Mod Compilations / Complete Overhauls Discussions

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 5 guests