Peace with Aliens

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Re: Peace with Aliens

Post by Shaidak » Tue May 03, 2016 8:21 am

Hello everyone, I just wanted to know if there are still some plans around the idea of a possible peaceful and green development (some people I know and I would really enjoy playing that way) or if it has been abandoned.

EDIT: By Peaceful & Green (anti-pollution systems, etc) I refer to the OP which would lead to something different than the current peaceful mode (which simply prevents natives from attacking us first instead of allowing some kind of interaction, unless I missed something :lol: ).

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Re: Peace with Aliens

Post by drmason13 » Sun May 08, 2016 8:50 am

They fight always at the same paths and get always killed? Too easy! The dead biters have a smell and the next wave tries to avoid them and find a better place.
They search for food and mark the way to it with pheromones. Ever looked at ants following a path? Interesting...
Had to comment to as to this idea! That would be fantastic, imagine: The growing pile of dead aliens become to big a deterrent, the next alien swarm gathers, hesitates and runs round at a distance to attack further to the south. They breach your weaker defences, disaster!

That's the bad news which makes it harder (and more interesting).
The good news? We can use this to our advantage. Harvest the alien corpses, place them elsewhere as deterrent, pushing their attack towards heavily fortified kill zones. At higher tech levels the corpses can be processed and more potent pheromone capsules produced. There is even the potential for new turret types:

(better names needed!)
Repel spray turret - feed a lot of potent pheromones, a large circlular area around this turret will be avoided by the aliens. Placed carefully can create funnels for alien attacks.

Spitter turret - shoots concentrated doses of the fear pheromone directly at alien attackers, stunning them or causing them to flee in terror!

And while we are at it, why not have technology and products that require the processing of alien corpses. A xeno-biology branch. This could accomplish the turrets mentioned, infrastructure to automate corpse processing, and then as mentioned above some insight into alien behaviour: Swarm warnings, early detection of new bases. I would love to have a system switch on when a swarm is gathering/about to attack (circuit network condition) which starts extra stream engines to power the laser turrets.

Anyway, ramble over.

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Re: Peace with Aliens

Post by Maja153 » Sun May 15, 2016 5:35 am

I really like the idea, gives the solar panels a bit more of a reason :)

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Re: Peace with Aliens

Post by nonstickfrypan » Sun May 15, 2016 8:57 am

I think it's a great idea!

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Re: Peace with Aliens

Post by ssilk » Sun May 15, 2016 11:43 am

The more the forum plays around with the idea of pheromones, the better it becomes. :) Taking away the dead biters to place it as deterent: what an idea. ;)
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Re: Peace with Aliens

Post by Yelibam » Mon Jul 11, 2016 3:49 pm

I really like the idea of putting a lot of effort in to make peace and trade with the aliens, instead of putting in a lot of effort to make war to get what you need. There will still be a threat, but it will be up to you to work to reduce the threat.

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Re: Peace with Aliens

Post by Amegatron » Fri Jul 22, 2016 10:10 pm

I don't know whether it was already proposed, or even whether it is related to "peace with aliens" key, but I would like to suggest to implement a building in game which will suppress aliens' spawning (migration) in a certain radius. Especially now since in 0.13 you can't just place a single wall to prevent spawning in the area and they will sooner or later spawn nearby.

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Re: Peace with Aliens

Post by Neproc » Sat Jul 23, 2016 9:09 pm

Great Idea! I'm all for it.

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Re: Peace with Aliens

Post by FioMaestro » Fri Sep 16, 2016 5:07 am

Yeah.. some players are still thinking about waging different kind of offensive actions against the natives instead of finding a way to tame or make peace with them. :P
We might see them as huge insects, animals or some non-cognitive creatures.. but we can still find a way to interact with them, and finally, modify their behaviour in such manner that they will start bringing alien (better said: native) artefacts as exchange items for what we supply them with.
Anyway, most of what I've read here, are good ideas! If you fail at maintaining peace with the natives, you need some effective weapons against them, to defend yourself. Not necessarily deadly, but effective (ferromone and other native-related technologies). So, I see the use of special weapons in this case.
I also agree with the presence of another race on the planet, which can be a natural thing after all. Hence, more native artefacts to collect, due to fights (and deaths) across the planet...
This is a very interesting topic to develop!

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Re: Peace with Aliens

Post by aubergine18 » Fri Sep 16, 2016 1:04 pm

Friendly aliens could help you discover hidden artefacts, resources and tech.

Would be nice if there were different type of alien (we already have insects, what about mammals, birds, etc) - and if they had their own factions that some times fight against each other. You could ally with a faction and together attack their enemy. (Not exactly peace with aliens, but peace with alien faction).
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Re: Peace with Aliens

Post by Deadly-Bagel » Fri Sep 16, 2016 2:59 pm

I remember watching a documentary that included a type of wild bird that would lead hunters to beehives. In exchange, the hunters would give the bird some honey. Presumably this evolved from kind hunters who would feed hungry birds hanging around beehives that weren't able to get past the bees, eventually the birds learned that if they led the hunters to honey they would get fed.

Initially didn't think this could be used but come to think of it, you could have biter feeders or something where you feed them with some ore or something which would make neighbouring biters friendlier to you and more tolerant of low levels of pollution. After a point if you stop providing them with ore they could lead you to a new deposit on the pretence that you would start feeding them from there.

Not that I see this getting into vanilla but this would be a huge asset on big maps with few-and-far-between resource spawns, as it would save you a LOT of hunting about for your next deposit.
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Re: Peace with Aliens

Post by ernirulez » Mon Oct 03, 2016 8:42 am

A good idea would be also an XCOM approach where you are able to investigate alien corpses to research new technologies :)

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Re: Peace with Aliens

Post by eventualmango » Sun Oct 09, 2016 8:48 pm

I absolutely love this idea!!! Please do this!!

There aren't enough great non-violent video games available these days, and Factorio offers such a rich and enjoyable experience outside of wiping out Aliens that I don't feel it to be a crucial part of the experience. In my opinion, peaceful mode deprives the player of a large chunk of the gameplay which revolves around dealing with the natives, however, normal mode sort of forces you into committing mass genocide in order to produce purple science which many players may not be excited about either. I love the idea of a middle ground where the Natives still exist and the option for peace and diplomacy is there if desired. Trading certain goods or materials with the aliens in exchange for alien artifacts would be such a great alternative to a forced military takeover.

Also as some of the above folks mentioned, it would give more meaning to the existence of clean technologies such as solar. The current state of the game offers little reward for using clean energy technologies aside from the obvious reduced amount of pollution generated - which is not a huge problem for the player as you have probably already set up a sustainable and effective way of dealing with alien attacks anyway and all you've gotta do is reload your turrets every so often or clear out the nearby enemy bases.

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Re: Peace with Aliens

Post by electricmonk2k » Tue Nov 08, 2016 2:05 am

Here are some thoughts.

Some players would think it was a shame to come to a planet only to kill off the natives, and it may be off-putting to some players. They may find the urge to peacefully co-exist too hard to resist, and when they try it and this fails, they may not want to play the game anymore (you could set the natives to not attack, but then, how would you get the artefacts?). But on the other hand, enabling the possibility for peace could fundamentally change the character of the natives, and in turn, the character of the gameplay experience.

But Factorio is a game about automation, building complicated factories, etc, so this dynamic really does not matter, but the atmosphere I get when playing Factorio is that I'm stuck alone in a hostile environment and have to use my ingenuity to survive and escape. So enabling peace with aliens could fundamentally alter the atmosphere of the game.

Anyway, if we want to enable diplomacy (we've already added Transport Tycoon just for the hell of it, so why not add Civilization too!), and the ability to negotiate peace (eg. promising to reduce pollution near their hives or to not expand to a certain area), this would add a fundamentally new game-dynamic. I'm not sure how soon the developers hope to ship the final version, but fine-tuning the diplomacy element is going to take a lot of time - especially if the game is going to be balanced in such a way that it is very hard to decide on whether pacifism or war-mongering is the best strategy to build your spaceship.

If going for a purely peaceful or purely warmongering strategy, some branches of the tech-tree might become redundant (unless they are pre-requisites for other types of tech), so the best way to stop this from happening would be to do both. The best way to achieve this is to split the natives into tribes. Each tribe would require a separate peace-treaty, so you would need to make peace with each one. However, you could also do things like try and persuade one tribe to declare war on another. Even if you go for a purely peaceful strategy, it's best to have some sort of military infrastructure in case they decide to break the treaty (I can imagine a scene like in the trailer where the aliens are just going around minding their own business, when all of a sudden, their tribe declares war on you, and then, then, in a scene reminiscent of the second trailer, they hiss, and then get into formation and head off and attack you). Likewise, the techs required for peaceful co-existence could be used as pre-requisites for something else. Another possibility is that in warmongering-mode, you could research their language so you can capture a native and interrogate it.

As others have suggested, once pacified, you could trade with them. Build an "Alien Marketplace" (or "Alien Trading-post") near their hives where you can deliver Trade goods and collect Alien artefacts. These can either be picked up manually, shipped onto a belt, or even loaded onto a train. Early on in the game, you research the tech for "Trade goods 1", and later, "Trade goods 2", etc. These higher numbered Trade goods can be sold for a higher price in the marketplace.

Another way of generating income from the natives is to let them ride on your trains. You can set up a passenger-service that takes them from one alien hive to another. Maybe biters don't even need to go to a specific destination, but just enjoy the ride. They pay for the ride with Alien Artefacts. The amount they pay could depend on the length of the ride, and how exciting the ride is (to measure 'exciting', use a similar metric to Rollercoaster Tycoon - this could be how fast the ride goes, and how scenic it is). I now have a mental image of a train going past with biters' heads poking out the window waving their arms and hissing as the train goes by.

Perhaps to enable diplomacy, you'd need to research "Alien communication", and that would require getting hold of some alien artefacts (it would be an excuse to use purple science-packs early in the game). Maybe there could be a small number of stray alien artefacts scattered around so that "Alien communication" can be researched without attacking one of their hives first.

However, enabling peace (especially if this happens vis diplomacy) would be a major game-dynamic, and could drastically alter the game-balance. Ideally, whether to choose war-mongering or pacifism should depend purely on how the player wants to play the game, and not which is the easiest or most challenging (although most people would probably want to try both strategies).

If the player decides to adopt a warmongering strategy, in the late game, there could be robots that automatically seek out alien hives, extinguish them, and return their artefacts. This would only be available very late in the game (but when you still need plenty of artefacts). The bases would have to be within range of a 'repair-station', but this range could be very far.

The current status quo is that when you land on the planet, you feel like you're alone in a hostile environment. Enabling the option of making peace with the aliens would completely change this. Also, enabling peace would change the natives from being feral animals into intelligent beings, which also changes the atmosphere of the game. However, there could still be a map-option that disables making peace with the aliens during the game, and scenario designers could prevent this too if they want to preserve the feeling the player has of being alone.

Many people have suggested the idea of a more intelligent indigenous race on the planet hiding from the biters that you have to find, and then trade with or help them fight the biters. Perhaps the biters could have been one of their failed genetic-engineering experiments. Maybe some of the factories they built could still be lying around (this would be the case in scenarios, and not in randomly-generated maps, unless the map-generator was smart enough to place half-functional factories).

Personally, I'd say go for it. Afterall, building a factory is what matters most, and whether you fight or coexist with the aliens should just be a sub-plot of the game, but it would be nice to have the option to play using a pacifist-style.

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Re: Peace with Aliens

Post by Roxor128 » Sat Dec 03, 2016 8:27 am

I agree with the view that the biters don't seem like something you could make peace with, and seem more like dumb beasts, and very aggressive ones at that.

If there were a native intelligent species as well, I think they'd treat the biters like how we'd treat lions or bears: Dangerous beasts that need to be kept away from our towns.

Maybe the player's introduction to these locals in the campaign (in whatever campaign picks up after the end of New Hope) could be seeing a group of them wielding copper swords and armour (early bronze-age civilisation) and fighting a group of biters (scripted so that the biters get beaten whether you help or not). Help the locals out by shooting some of the biters or offer them some copper plates and you'd have the start of a peaceful route.

Go through a few trade sessions and get a research project to try and figure out their language, then you can start really talking to them.

From there, you can trade products with them or make things for them from plans they supply. Offer to teach them about various things from the tech tree and watch as the locals start making their own things based on the idea (would require adding a few technologies your character already has at the start). Maybe add a passenger wagon to the train system and run a service for the locals.

Once they figure out electricity, some of their cheekier citizens might try stealing power from your long-distance lines. Actually, that sounds like a possible piece of emergent complexity which might develop anyway from simple rules like "Build connection lines to nearest existing power line".

If, on the other hand, you want to go the warmonger route, well, now you not only have to worry about attacks from increasingly strong dumb beasts (the biters), but you also have to worry about organised and intelligent people declaring war on you, and unlike the biters, these guys can figure out your stuff and make their own versions. Maybe even organise raids to steal stuff from you.

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Re: Peace with Aliens

Post by leomate » Wed Dec 14, 2016 3:19 am

Great Idea. Love the Biters.

My Suggestion:
- (a middle ground to peace) Researchable Passive Aura Repellent to move Biters and wither Spawners away from player buildings. Spawners that are repelled leave behind fewer alien artifacts than killing the spawner.

- Repellent gained from dead bodies of Biters specific to each species of Biter.
- Repellent does not affect aliens that are engaged in combat.
- Domesticate Biters by feeding them Fish from water sources.
- Home colony(ies) for the biters that can be travelled to. (found through sufficient radar/ scanning, satellites)

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Re: Peace with Aliens

Post by Kazaanh » Sat Dec 24, 2016 12:04 pm

While biters don't seem to be that intelligent how about adding a Biter-Queen to each biter colony? Or maybe 1 Queen should own few biter colonies to prevent Queen-spams.

In order to constant with biters you would have to first to capture one alive specimen , be it a cattle-prod to stun , trap-mine, stun grenade to bait them like mouse. Then pack them up to the car ( car with a cage anyone? ) and move it to your base to the special building. Or just kill them gently and start dissection at your special lab.

You could add a plenty of new technologies, like observing the behaviour 1#, 2# etc with some lore. Unlocking some biter-pheromones module to put into your power armor so biter will ignore you ( depends on biter colonies, because other colonies would attack you ).

Then maybe you would have a chance to place a biter-radio-emitter around their colony to learn how to communicate with them. After few times you should be able to craft a new voice-app-emitter for your power armor. So you will be able to understand them and they will understand you ( at least queen ). Of course pollution would play a big part in this and you will have to try to lower it asap otherwise they will get angry or mutate and attack relentlessly anyways. And here we could add potential new gameplay mechanics like air-purifiers, you could place them around the biter base.

By contacting a queen she would request something from you, because all she wants is to grow bigger and secure her colonies. That would require you to help her defeat other colonies or defend her own. In reward she would give you some alien-artifacts or rare-alien-stuff to unlock some unique technology ( like anti-biter-emitters etc etc ). But why stop at that? Why not help them develop even better with tech? Build some automated-workshop that would armor&weaponize biters? Like Biter with gun on his back? Biter-tank with armored plates protecting him? Now imagine getting bad relations suddenly because you done something bad and that biter colony now owns your technology and is able to produce more of them? End-game threat? Mechanized biters?

Or queen could borrow you few biter eggs for you so you could research a anti-pollution serum and inject it into the eggs, before they hatch so they will maintain the pollution/mutation immunity.
Or why not make a deal with queen where she gives you eggs and you have to hatch them at your base and deliver back again as fully grown up? New gameplay, potential biter-reservation? Abillity to kidnap queens and setup your own biter-reservations for future exploitation?

Now I want underground biter bases to explore with queen sitting right there with plenty of eggs laying around.

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Re: Peace with Aliens

Post by coop0308 » Tue Jan 24, 2017 2:27 am

I myself like to fight the biters but I can understand why some people don't want to. The biters don't seem smart enough to understand trading so maybe you could implement some sort of sacrifice system. You give them something like fish for example, and they would give you artifacts so you would not have to kill them to get science pack 4. It would be cool if the farther you get into the game they want more and they want it more often.

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Re: Peace with Aliens

Post by Foreros » Sun Feb 19, 2017 9:48 am

I trey to put my 2 cent.
It's a crossed idea about terraforming, fisheries and taming aliens.

When you fill a water square, another random water adjacent square will become water (after all if you put something in a container, the water will flow out of it in some way).
You can create fisheries that will collect without pollution raw fishes.
This fisheries CAN be visited by aliens for collect fishes and, with adequate research, you can teach them that attaching fisheries can be dangerous (turret setting "defensive only" that will attack only biters that will actively attack your fisheries, to teach them that attack is not a good idea) and that is better give something for get the fishes.
With tecnologies you can set a limit for free fishes then give others only after they drop an artifact in the "exchange machine" (almost useless for small ones that can get enough food from the free fishes, but very valuable from big ones that need 4 or more, then are forced/bribed to give them for the easy food).
This can be done throguth steps, so first give free fishes being near fisheries for attract them here, then showing them that the "exchange machine" will give extra fish if you drop something on it.
The tecnology tree maybe is "Fisheries", "Alien taming", "Alien training", etc. etc. etc. providing that they are 2 trees crossed in few steps.
The tree for made fisheries even more productive and the tree for interact with aliens, where the aliens tree need few fisheries levels for get it.
Example, taming need basic fisheries, training, based on levels, need higher level of fisheries and trading tecnologies.
With trading levels you can set ores exchanges (giving copper and iron ores even from other sources not land based mines and without any pollutions), aliens artifacts, both or even few other sources, like woods or rocks.
This can open a totally interactive environmental level of game.
Other tecnologies can be even "filters" for various burning materials making tecnologies for filtering varios sources of smokes and adding more focused sources of energy.
So the smoke of a wood (and other wood based items) sources can be filtered with few simple filters, but coal and solid fuel need a more specific filters for neutralize, or even reduce, pollution output.
A new great addon can be a pollution reduction module and new tecnologies to reduce pollution level from assembling machines, oil refineries and chemical plants.
And, another incentive to environmental solutions, can be a sort of "pollution disasters", like ice rain, earthquakes and similar events triggered when pollution overcome certain level for more than a fixed amount of time.
But, as told, this is only my 2 cent offer as player.
[I like the game even as it is, but why not dream about other improvements? :D]

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Re: Peace with Aliens

Post by Niizuki » Fri Apr 28, 2017 1:37 am

Many suggestions revolve around diplomacy and trading, but as many other posts suggest, biters are really just an insects (at least so far they looks to be).

So, there may be a simple, yet very factorio like reolution to working with natives.

Biters act like they are acting right now, eg. they attack you on sight. But, through research you gain new way to interact. You get a building, which when planted near a nest (not too far) and filled with alien food (crafted from whatever), attracts nearby biters which will not attack it directly (if not placed too close). When biter comes to this building, and it contains food, it takes the food and brings this to its base.

With each brought food, this speific bunch of spawners gains some points of liking toward you. When those points reach threshold, surpassing current hate points (generated by pollution and maybye amount of killed biters), this nest becomes neutral. This means that this nest will not attack you regardless of pollution (unless hate points surpasses like points), yet still attack anything which would come to near (buildings or player)

When in this state, player would be able to teach biters how to place special buildings (after some research, and providing some resources to biters), which would allow biters to mine nearby ore deposits for you and dump them in this buldind. Those buildings would be placed on random spot on the edge of biter inflience, so far that any infrastructure placed by player would not be attacked.
Some of the final techs would include biter ability to gather and process oil.

Also, any neutral nest would not expand toward your base or to buildings that are used by biters. Any nest that is not neutral would be aggresive toward neutral nests.

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