Hidden ores

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Hanse00
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Re: Hidden ores

Post by Hanse00 » Thu Feb 28, 2013 8:59 pm

orbito wrote:
MatLaPatate wrote:
orbito wrote: something *new*.
Just to know, what do you know about chemistry ? ^^
I know we recently discovered a new 113 element.

http://www.gizmag.com/transuranic-113-d ... pan/24318/

Besides, this is science fiction, not science fact. Reality can be stretched a bit.
Discovered as in synthetically made in a lab, it's stable for much less than a second where after is breaks down, in a laboratory environment.
You could never find this element in nature, and as far as we know, it has absolutely no use what so ever.

The chance of finding a "new" element in nature, on this or any other planet, is small, very very very small.

As much as I agree this game doesn't have to be built 100% of reality, and what is "realistic", adding an element not excising in the real world (and by that I don't mean in labs where it's made) doesn't seem like a good idea to me.

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Re: Hidden ores

Post by orbito » Thu Feb 28, 2013 9:07 pm

Hanse00 wrote: The chance of finding a "new" element in nature, on this or any other planet, is small, very very very small.

As much as I agree this game doesn't have to be built 100% of reality, and what is "realistic", adding an element not excising in the real world (and by that I don't mean in labs where it's made) doesn't seem like a good idea to me.
When talking about the vastness of space, rare events happen all the time. That means that if discovering a new element on another planet is "small," when you factor in something like the Drake Equation, the amount of planets that could have an undiscovered element is quite a high number. Who is to say the alien world in the game isn't one of them? The more you argue with me the more you prove my case, so your disagreement is quite pointless.

As far as we know, creepers don't exist in reality, yet they exist in the game. It's called "science fiction."

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Re: Hidden ores

Post by Hanse00 » Thu Feb 28, 2013 9:22 pm

orbito wrote:
Hanse00 wrote: The chance of finding a "new" element in nature, on this or any other planet, is small, very very very small.

As much as I agree this game doesn't have to be built 100% of reality, and what is "realistic", adding an element not excising in the real world (and by that I don't mean in labs where it's made) doesn't seem like a good idea to me.
When talking about the vastness of space, rare events happen all the time. That means that if discovering a new element on another planet is "small," when you factor in something like the Drake Equation, the amount of planets that could have an undiscovered element is quite a high number. Who is to say the alien world in the game isn't one of them? The more you argue with me the more you prove my case, so your disagreement is quite pointless.

As far as we know, creepers don't exist in reality, yet they exist in the game. It's called "science fiction."
Much contrary you're just pointing out your lack of scientific knowledge, an element like 113 (just as an example) has a half life of 20 seconds (I went to check).
A. It's extremely unlikely to be created in nature at all
B. if it were, no matter how impossible this is to happen, it would be gone 20 seconds later.
This is not an element you want to make things out of

Now, the point of creepers is simply silly, for all you know they are a carbon based life form like humans, they are, compared to another element being found on a planet, very likely to exist.
I did count in the vastness of the universe, and I still estimate it's unlikely in the universe.

Btw, the "The Drake equation is a mathematical equation used to estimate the number of detectable extraterrestrial civilizations in the Milky Way galaxy." that has nothing to do with anything in this discussion, so I have no idea why you decided to refer to it.

I do agree with one point though, this is quite pointless, it all comes down to one thing:
I don't like imaginary ores to be added to the game, I think it's senseless.

We can always argue about the reason for that, but it's unimportant in the end.

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Re: Hidden ores

Post by orbito » Thu Feb 28, 2013 9:38 pm

Hanse00 wrote: Much contrary you're just pointing out your lack of scientific knowledge
Wow, you sound like a smug elitist. We are talking about science fiction not science fact.
Hanse00 wrote:I do agree with one point though, this is quite pointless.
Because writers of science fiction take what we know now... and imagine much more.

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Re: Hidden ores

Post by Hanse00 » Thu Feb 28, 2013 9:44 pm

orbito wrote:You're a smug elitist who doesn't understand we are talking about SCIENCE FICTION not science fact.
Nah, to be that I'd have to be in the elite, I'm not.
orbito wrote:Because writers of science fiction take what we know and imagine more. Please get that through your thick skull.
I'm quite familiar with how science fiction works... thank you.
My skull is not thicker than most people, I simply prefer science over fiction, which is what I've been saying all along.

I'll make it as clear as possible for you as you're having a hard time:

I. Simply. Do not. Like. The idea of. Imaginary ores.

That's it, that's all I'm saying.

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Re: Hidden ores

Post by orbito » Thu Feb 28, 2013 9:51 pm

Hanse00 wrote: I'll make it as clear as possible for you as you're having a hard time:

I. Simply. Do not. Like. The idea of. Imaginary ores.

That's it, that's all I'm saying.
You went about it in the most arrogant and combative way possible. I love studying science it's kind of annoying when a smug jerk calls me stupid in order to get his point across that he doesn't want unknown/undiscovered elements in a science fiction game. We simply aren't dealing with a game limited to current science fact and nothing I've proposed is outside of the realm of scientific possibility. Perhaps it's not that probable, but that's completely different.

And I know what the Drake Equation is, I brought it up for simplicity sake. A way to show that unlikely things are common.

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Re: Hidden ores

Post by Hanse00 » Thu Feb 28, 2013 9:56 pm

Hm, well.
We can argue about my method, I may have been quite rude... Sorry about that.
I don't in any way mean to make it sound like I think you're stupid.

Anyway, back to hidden ores!

I don't think the idea per say needs to introduce new ores to work.
It seems rather silly to find huge amounts of coal and iron on the surface as it is.

Maybe there should just be small amounts at ground level, and then the big clusters of ore were found other the ground some way?

So you could get by with iron above ground, but really need to get the underground ores to make anything impressive?

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Re: Hidden ores

Post by MF- » Thu Feb 28, 2013 10:19 pm

Hanse00 wrote: It seems rather silly to find huge amounts of coal and iron on the surface as it is.

Maybe there should just be small amounts at ground level, and then the big clusters of ore were found other the ground some way?

So you could get by with iron above ground, but really need to get the underground ores to make anything impressive?
The ores aren't lying on the ground.
I think about the ore deposits as "ore deposit markers" that only say that there is a certain ore available in limited-enough depth.

Would it look better if mining created dangerous pits? (Build fences to prevent yourself from falling in)
Each ore marker could also include the information how much dirt is above the ore vein.
Dirt would have to be mined first and then stored somewhere.
That would also add the dirt and landscape management aspects to mining.

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Re: Hidden ores

Post by Blackmoor » Fri Mar 01, 2013 6:44 am

kovarex wrote:Later in the game (advanced technologies would be needed for this), the player could start with underground mining, this would have 2 phases.

Searching for resources
Underground resources wouldn't be so easy to spot, the player would have to do special drills to scan the nearby underground, when he finds something there, specialised mining drills that mine underground could be used there.

Some of the resources could be found only in underground.
Really good idea. I hadn't expected the game to go vertical, but its nice because it would allow you to add more ore to each map and more variety of ores.

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Re: Hidden ores

Post by Xisuma » Fri Mar 01, 2013 1:59 pm

Sounds like a great idea! Adding more length to the game with rarer resources obtained though time and technology research is a good idea!

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Re: Hidden ores

Post by Darthlawsuit » Mon Mar 04, 2013 8:54 am

We need more coal that is able to be mined. My factories just cannot be sustained by the surface. It is hard to keep multiple lines of 15 furnaces active with only surface materials.

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Re: Hidden ores

Post by Dakkanor » Mon Mar 04, 2013 9:46 pm

Darthlawsuit wrote:It is hard to keep multiple lines of 15 furnaces active with only surface materials.
O.o wow, the most i've used so far is 3 double sided lanes of 10, all adding up to 60 iron and then a double lane for copper.....

i think a better title for you would be "Exploiter" :)

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Re: Hidden ores

Post by Staxxy » Mon Mar 04, 2013 10:17 pm

Well my current factory has 4 lines of 12 ovens. 2 lines for iron, 2 lines for copper. Absolutely no problem feeding them with coal, altho I do have two coal lines.

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Re: Hidden ores

Post by FlamingNx9 » Sun Mar 17, 2013 1:20 pm

Darthlawsuit wrote:We need more coal that is able to be mined. My factories just cannot be sustained by the surface. It is hard to keep multiple lines of 15 furnaces active with only surface materials.
Wait until you get 40+ oven for iron and copper, it's a whole new set of problem.

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Re: Hidden ores

Post by ficolas » Sun Mar 17, 2013 1:28 pm

use the fmod :) :p

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Re: Hidden ores

Post by FreeER » Sun Mar 17, 2013 10:03 pm

ficolas wrote:use the fmod :) :p
I must +1 this :D
<I'm really not active any more so these may not be up to date>
~FreeER=Factorio Modding
- Factorio Wiki
- My Factorio Modding Guide
- Wiki Modding Guide
Feel free to pm me :)
Or drop into #factorio on irc.esper.net

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Re: Hidden ores

Post by Wardiaper » Wed Apr 03, 2013 6:03 am

I like this hidden ores idea. There is an indie game called sonar that has a really great gameplay mechanic where you ping your surroundings at the risk of alerting enemies and the sonar gradually fades. A similar sonar mechanic in factorio to find ore would be kinda cool - especially if it fades over 5 seconds or so and maybe doesn't give an exact location of the ideal spot to drop a miner, but a fuzzy outline of where the ore is located (so you wouldn't know for sure the best spot to drop a miner or even how much ore is in that deposit - it could be a tiny deposit or a huge one). It could have a limited range and cost a certain amount of resources to ping the sonar so that it isn't abused.

If you wanted to get real crazy - you could have a game mode where all ores are hidden and maybe you have a sonar that doesn't need any resources but you can only use it once every 2 minutes. You would have to ping to locate ore and you wouldn't even know what kind it was until you dropped a miner on top of it - or different ores could show a different intensity of brightness (brighter for iron than stone, etc.). That would be pretty fun to have to find deposits of ore.

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Re: Hidden ores

Post by JonnyBoy » Sat Apr 13, 2013 8:46 pm

It could be interesting for the underground material to be a super rare ore that is very useful and could be used to build a variety of powerful buildings/items. It could lead to the interesting decision of "Hmm.. should I use substance X to build something that will speed up my harvesting of raw ores? Or do I need to focus on building something that will substantially increase the output of my labs? But I really need to fend off the creepers too; I could use it to build powerful defenses." It would make you determine the needs of your factory and decide what is the MOST important benefit.

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Re: Hidden ores

Post by Dakkanor » Sun Apr 14, 2013 12:20 am

MatLaPatate wrote:......

Yup, but you could also consider tons of others metals ... and basically, if carbon isn't very rare on most of planets, diamonds are ^^. Moreover, they're often used in little amounts for techs ... that aren't really in Factorio. I mean, for now factorio is mainly made out of heavy industry, not things where you need to be accurate ^^.
i think diamonds could be used to make advanced laser turrets, make a laser rifle :twisted: , teleporters if they get used, hell it wouldn't take much effort to go "hmm i need more uses for diamonds lets slap em in everywhere" - another idea is diamonds primary use is in making "energy crystals" which would go into capacitors and all that other tech i mentioned.

but in my opinionl the next thing s to be used should be:

palladium - more realworld industrial uses than paltnum and its a bit different
uranium - nuff said
titanium - to be a step up from steel
quartz - it is used already in some electrical systems like watches, is the second most common mineral found on earth, so it more likely to be heavily used on this planet than diamond AND it circumvents the whole "Diamonds fix everything" stuff

this is wat i think, tho i could easily be wrong here on several points :P

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Re: Hidden ores

Post by DexterNemrod » Mon May 13, 2013 1:17 pm

Sounds like a good idea to be able to actually mine underground at one point in the game
(that is having an underground map (maybe with underground levels accessible by Shift+Scroll up/down),
where you have to use explosives in order to advance adits in which you can mine the resources.
(Aside from Platinumk, Diamonds, Gold there may be a possibility to find maybe further rich bituminous coal deposits and maybe further alien enemies/installations)
Last edited by DexterNemrod on Tue May 14, 2013 11:15 am, edited 1 time in total.

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