(New) mod categories!?!

[SHiRKiT]

For the topic listing, I suggest that the modder picks the category. Once we dive into a repo, we can have multiple categories. Or we can allow multiple categories as well here, and let people be REASONABLE.

[betka]

Thanks @Karosieben ! yes, exactly, there is neither need nor intention to tear apart anything organic, the objective is just some structure that will allow orientation, so some groups need to be made, i called that categories, maybe that wasn't the best word, but i think people are getting what the point is.
@YuokiTani - i think best if the people involved in modding gave ideal directions that's why I am asking here, to know what people would prefer, and then I try to make a good synthesis of the ideas here, not before I discuss it with all reasonable people I know i hope we can come to something useful even for this forum.
other than that, licences and copyright and this kind of things is what I am now preparing the information for, so if you want to know for some projects you may have been planning, write me the details (message here or betka [at] factorio.com). So I get to give the details on those, too! Getting off the subject is sometimes useful

[ssilk]

I find, that the following categories are useful (I try to keep that user-oriented, not modder-oriented, mainly taking Shirkit's suggestion):

• Incoming: New mods. Some simple checks are made (mainly: header correct?), before it is moved to the category picked by the modder.
• Helpers / User Interface mods: Adds useful functions for easier playing, more information, no game-change.
• New stuff / Extensions: Changing/adding/removing one thing of the game. Doesn't break the game completely, if mod is removed.
• Gameplay / Convinience: Games that are directly focused on adding, removing or changing a game-concept. Will break with vanilla game.
• Mod Compilations / Complete Overhauls: too big and changes too much of the game to be fit anywhere else (currently some Big Mods)
• Mod Packs / Libs / Other: doesn't fit in the other categories, like libraries, really small fixes or modpacks.

Please discuss!

My phpbb/MySQL knowledge is very rusty, so forgive me if i'm talking nonsense here:
Shouldn't it be possible to create a query that pulls: modname, category, tags, description (truncated to x characters) and the link to the modthread directly out of the phpbb-database and updates a specified post every few hours? This would result in an overview thread thats always up to date.

No.
In short: That needs to be done, before the article is saved. It is possible to write an phpbb-extension for that. But that makes no sense, because it will be then just a second mod-db.

As for the template: I think License should be added as a mandatory field, and optionally a field for the homepage/github.
Since 0.12 will be some kind of reset of the mods, I guess the Mod Forum rules should be updated to require a license, since this was discussed a few months ago anyways.

Yes, of course, thats important.

Code: Select all

The mod-description has two parts, a header and a body - exactly like Hypertext Transfer Protocol.
The header-names are not upper/lower-case-sensitive. A header can be only one line.

    Type: Mod
    Name: Fancy transports
    License: Link to a license or very short text description
    Version: 1.0.2
    Release: 2015-07-05
    Tested-With-Factorio-Version: 0.11.22
    Category: UserInterface
    Tags: Textures, User-Interface, Vehicles, fancy tag name
    Download-Url: [url]Direct-download-Url[/url]
    Website: [url]some project page[/url]
    Description: Adding some UI stuff for transportation <(max. 140 chars)

Between header and body there must be a blank line, like HTTP.
More can follow in the body, but that is not bounded to a form.
Any header can be used. Only "[size=150]" is later parsed as paragraph, any other size will be left untouched.
Spoilers can/should be used to hide not not so interesting parts.
    [spoiler=License][size=150]License[/size]
    This text should be a copy of the licence in the mod.
    Long description/Text of license/Links and especially (usefully at the top) what that means for
    using in modpacks; using graphics/sounds/code or other parts in other mods;
    taking mod over when orphaned; ... [/spoiler]

    [spoiler=Long description][size=150]Long description[/size]
    Can also include pictures. This can be also some kind of docs.[/spoiler]

    [spoiler=Pictures][size=150]Pictures[/size]
    [img][/img] ...
    [/spoiler]

    [spoiler=Version history][size=150]Version history[/size]
    Version# (Date): What has changed...[/spoiler]

    [spoiler=Create own paragraphs as you like][size=150]Create own paragraphs as you like[/size]
    [/spoiler]

More suggestions?

who decide which mod goes/moved into a category ? - the modder, the forum-admins ?

The modder of course.

when is a mod a big mod and a how many mods make a modpack ?

I define big mods as mods, where the threads gets too long and the support seems to be continuous.

and how to prevent multiple postings the mod in every category it can fit ?

Not how, but who! The moderators of course.

for me it's more the question if the developers want support mods in mid-future or if mod-support dropped after factorio version 1.0. (reason own DLC-Content)

I cannot speak for the devs, but the answer for me is obviously, that this ain't gonna happen.

and i'am still missing a licence-information about using factorio-graphics ... as example can everyone take factorio-graphics to make a fan-website or use this graphics to make a factorio-browsergame (and make money with it) ? - and as another example ... i use extracted blizzard graphics for a factorio-mod ... it's surely okay until blizzard's lawyers knock in prague at the door - not on my door because the forum provide the mod.

This has been answered.
https://forums.factorio.com/forum/vie ... it=license
https://forums.factorio.com/forum/vie ... ase#p49122
https://forums.factorio.com/forum/vie ... nse#p60642

In other words: the base mod (and core?) have a (not yet existing) license, that allows usage for Factorio related stuff.

And some last words: I think we should take this change as the chance to make it right.

[bobingabout]

Well, I plan to continue Bob's Mods for 0.12, so, I request a new subforum section in the 0.12 forum section for this.

to clarify, I want a new section, don't move the old one.

[Choumiko]

From the 0.12 forums:

Gameplay / Convinience (0.12)
Mods that are directly focused on adding, removing or changing a game-concept.
Will break with vanilla game!

I wouldn't call a mod that breaks a vanilla game convenient? To me convenient is just another word/category for Helper/Utility. Not braking anything, just making stuff less tedious

Edit: Also, i think ssilk knows something is coming up soon?! Getting my hopes up with changing the modding forums

[theBeave]

FYI: The current 0.12 mod 'Gameplay/Convinience' category name is misspelled, should be 'CONVENIENCE'

[ssilk]

Thanks for pointing this out.

[Choumiko]

I'm going to bring this up again:

Gameplay / Convenience (0.12)
Mods that are directly focused on adding, removing or changing a game-concept.
Will break with vanilla game!

Somehow Gameplay + Convenience don't fit together.
The description indicates (for me) that the name should be Overhaul or Gameplay/Overhaul. Having convenience and "break vanilla game" together is like Hot + cold.

E.g. to me Railtanker is Convenience or Helper, removing it breaks vanilla, yes. But, it doesn't change recipes nor does it break an existing vanilla save when you first install it.
When a mod is removed from a game it almost always "breaks" something. Entities get removed, so you have to rebuild stuff with vanilla entities. For railtanker its the stations, which need to be changed back to barrels. For games that change recipes it's most likely the whole factory or at least big parts of it.
At least that's my understanding of Gameplay vs. Convenience vs breaking.
Wouldn't i look at every category anyways, i would have never looked for Railtanker there (mostly because of the description)

[ssilk]

Hm.
I have two ideas:
1. Should I move the rail-stuff back?
2. Do you have a concrete idea, how to name the boards so, that is is more clear for modders, players and especially for moderators like me.

I'm still really open to change everything - there are not so much mods now, it is possible to move them in an hour or so.

[Choumiko]

Hm.
I have two ideas:
1. Should I move the rail-stuff back?
2. Do you have a concrete idea, how to name the boards so, that is is more clear for modders, players and especially for moderators like me.

1. I don't know, i think that should be up to the authors to decide.
2. Not really concrete i'm afraid, just the feeling that Gameplay and Convenience are two different things (for me)

Another example: FluidBarrels, if i'm correct this merely adds barrels for all liquids. To me it belongs to new items.
Really hard to say what to do. I guess what bugs me most is the Convenience. Would really like input from a few more people, i can't be the only one who finds it doesn't fit.

[ssilk]

Ah. Now I understood. Man, I'm with stupid! I have translated convenience a bit wrong. In Germany in my dialect it means "I will like it" (Es konviniert mir).
So I did not think and took the names out of this thread and made them nice. Ican say eas excuse only: It was a long week.

Maybe I should remove Convenience and rename to

"Gameplay changes"
Changes essential elements of the vanilla game (limited to one aspect).



I've looked now for half an hour and the current mods in both categories (items, gameplay) are fitting more or less exact into their categories.
The fluid barrels are somethings, that can be discussed, but you see, they are in both categories.

As alternative it came also in my mind to remove the category completely. Maybe that fits better? But the problem I see then is, that the items category will become too big.

Opinions?

[Choumiko]

Ah. Now I understood. Man, I'm with stupid! I have translated convenience a bit wrong. In Germany in my dialect it means "I will like it" (Es konviniert mir).

I don't live that far away from you (Heidenheim/Ulm, von d'r schöna Alb ra ), we don't say that at all

Maybe I should remove Convenience and rename to
"Gameplay changes"
Changes essential elements of the vanilla game (limited to one aspect).

Sounds like a step in the right direction.

I've looked now for half an hour and the current mods in both categories (items, gameplay) are fitting more or less exact into their categories.
The fluid barrels are somethings, that can be discussed, but you see, they are in both categories.

As alternative it came also in my mind to remove the category completely. Maybe that fits better? But the problem I see then is, that the items category will become too big.

Opinions?

I will have to look closer at the mods first. I mostly divide mods into "Vanilla+" and "Not interested" (nothing against these mods, I just don't like too many changes)

[ssilk]

Ah. Now I understood. Man, I'm with stupid! I have translated convenience a bit wrong. In Germany in my dialect it means "I will like it" (Es konviniert mir).

I don't live that far away from you (Heidenheim/Ulm, von d'r schöna Alb ra ), we don't say that at all

Yeah. But the story behind this kind of misunderstanding is much uglier... and now off-topic....
This is in German, cause nobody from outside will understand (und außerdem isses mir irgendwie peinlich):
Ich hab mal nachgefragt, ob jemand meiner Freunde das so sagt. Alle sagen "Das bist immer nur Du der das so sagt, wie wissen zwar, was es bedeutet, aber verwenden würden wir das nie.". Und durch nachschauen hier http://www.duden.de/rechtschreibung/konvenieren
kam ich drauf: Das kommt von meiner Mutter. Die kommt ursprünglich aus Wien. (" Gebrauch: österreichisch, ... ") und verwendet es oft.

Also so kommen solche blöden Misverständnisse zusammen.

Maybe I should remove Convenience and rename to
"Gameplay changes"
Changes essential elements of the vanilla game (limited to one aspect).

...
I will have to look closer at the mods first. I mostly divide mods into "Vanilla+" and "Not interested" (nothing against these mods, I just don't like too many changes)

I hope anybody else is interested in how the categories are working together.

[Choumiko]

Das kommt von meiner Mutter. Die kommt ursprünglich aus Wien. (" Gebrauch: österreichisch, ... ") und verwendet es oft

Na dann ist alles klar. Hätt mich gewundert wenn man in Würzburg so redet

I hope anybody else is interested in how the categories are working together.

The categorization into Interested vs. Not interested is only done in my head and really can't be recommended for use in a forum, so yeah, opinions from others would still be nice.

[ssilk]

Yeah, but that thought brought me to think, that distinguish categories in "how big is the change to the vanilla?" (and back) is a good idea, cause I think many (or most?) players are looking first for some small changes and then they will install more and more stuff.

And which category is here also objectively measurable: How much do I need to change, if I install it, play with it and then I remove it?

In the worst case I cannot play the game anymore. I need to rebuild nearly everything. That are basically the big mods.
In the best case, there is just something useful missing.

I've made some changes and will move the topics to match it and see what happens.

Open for further discussions.

[Zackreaver]

I demand a mod category dedicated to trains because trains are awesome!!


I also demand a mod category dedicated to making the enemies more interesting, such as new enemy types (THERE ARE NO ENEMY TYPE MODS), the swarm mod, and anything else to make the defenses we build more interesting.

We have tons of mods that give us new weapons, vehicles, structures, and other stuff to make the game easier. But we have practically nothing to make the enemies actually interesting in return. I don't want the stats of the enemies increased, but rather similar to how the swarm mod makes the bugs split into huge clusters and encouraging AOE weapons, it would be nice if there were more enemy types that encourage varied defenses.