What do biters do in their spare time? (Pheromone pathfind)

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Re: What do biters do in their spare time?

Post by Hometruck » Wed May 21, 2014 9:32 pm

This could be interesting, in particular the pheromone system, possibly you could research and build machines that produce/inhibit particular pheromones.
Also possibly exude synthetic pheromones that are not found naturally, such as a pacifying scent that makes biters not want to attack you, but they would still plant trees.
Just a suggestion.
I am slightly concern by the dev's wording, because it make it sound like pheromones were tried and proven impossible to implement.
But anyway, +1
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Re: What do biters do in their spare time?

Post by robhol » Thu May 22, 2014 7:05 am

Sorry about the off-topic, but... the topic title sounds like the setup for a joke. :D

"So, two biters walk into a bar..."
窮屈そうに身を屈めても今じゃ誰もがそうしてる 天井の無いECHO ROOMに誰かが僕を放り込む
君のSPEEDでもって 同じPHRASEを弾いて 冷たい時に寄り添って

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Re: What do biters do in their spare time?

Post by katyal » Fri Dec 05, 2014 3:47 pm

This seems to be an idea that keeps coming back. I also think it would be a wonderful thing to have biters be just a bit more savy.

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Re: What do biters do in their spare time?

Post by TuckJohn » Thu Dec 03, 2015 4:10 pm

ssilk wrote:I add here: Different layers of pheromones have different "spread", they "stay" differently long in the air. For example: "Angriness" spreads very fast into all directions over large areas and stays long, while the smell of dead biters spreads not very far and will last not so long. A "path-to-food"-pheromone keeps only in near distance, but lasts long. It would be interesting how real ants work with the pheromones.
I would think that the "Death" pheromone would stay around longer then "not so long". It would have to stick around though the next few biter attacks for them pheromone system to actually mean/do/change anything.
Also, I would assume that the pheromones would decay with an end behavior of a Multiplicative Inverse graph or a Inverse Exponential graph. That is, Over time it would decay like half-lifes; less and less would be present over time, and over time less and less of the pheromone decays. Perhaps it is best described with a graph:
Image
KEY: X axis is time; Y axis is Level/amount of the pheromones.
The graph could be constructed in a way that a new biter attack would come about every 0.4-0.6 "units" on the graph, avoiding the place that biters were just killed, making use of the pheromone system. Eventually the fear/death/dont-go-here pheromones would decay enough that a new wave of biters would attack in that spot, and(Assuming they die) the pheromones would be "renewed" for the following waves of biters.

This, of course, this is how it should work IMO, but I am just a random guy talking on the forums. :lol:

EDIT: So After posting this I released I just revived a thread nearly a year old. Whoops!
Anyway, I like the idea so I might as well keep my opinion up.
~1200+ hours clocked in factorio. Avid KSP and Factorio player

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Re: What do biters do in their spare time?

Post by boksiora » Tue May 31, 2016 12:09 am

ssilk wrote:Hehe, yes, have you ever tried to fight against ants? :)


I would like to see more ant behavior for biters

https://www.google.bg/search?q=ant+beha ... ZiSD0aM%3A

Image

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Re: What do biters do in their spare time? (Pheromone pathfind)

Post by ssilk » Tue May 31, 2016 9:47 am

I like the idea of this graphics to implement some behavior. I think that can be implemented also in some kind of specialized programming language or interpreted data-structure.

Which would be useful to have a generalized behavior model that can be programmed in detail but is still very fast.
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Re: What do biters do in their spare time? (Pheromone pathfind)

Post by MeduSalem » Wed Jun 01, 2016 1:52 am

Funny that this topic pops up again.

By coincidence I spent the past month getting into Potential Fields and Vector Based path finding set ontop of a Quad Tree map data structure which I would use for a game concept of mine if I ever get that far (probably not due to my lack of self-confidence, but maybe some one else got the ambition and endurance necessary).

Stuff like that here:

http://aigamedev.com/open/tutorials/potential-fields/
http://gamedevelopment.tutsplus.com/tut ... medev-9007

Too bad that it is highly unlikely that the devs will fundamentally change Biter behaviour and their pathfinding process at this point anymore. Maybe something to consider for Factorio 2 in the far off future.

Potential fields + vector based pathfinding would offer quite an interesting experience for games with AI behaving exactly like Ants and where a lot of individuals are using the same paths and movement behavior is controlled by attractive/repulsive potential fields. Given that obstacles in a map update seldom compared to overall playtime it would allow the use of precaluclated movement vectors, which in return would perform much better than classic A* algorithms since almost no pathfinding would have to be done in real time except the occasional updates of the potential fields and the corresponding vector field which can be done in the background over time.

And for each individual then just superposition the vector fields depending on the current needs/objectives of the individual. Find food? Follow food vector field. Want to kill the source of the pollution? Follow pollution vector field. Low on Health? Move away from dangerous hotspot using the corresponding vector field.

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Re: What do biters do in their spare time? (Pheromone pathfind)

Post by ssilk » Wed Jun 01, 2016 2:31 pm

Super interesting... :)
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Re: What do biters do in their spare time? (Pheromone pathfind)

Post by ssilk » Thu Jun 02, 2016 12:26 pm

I moved it now to Frequently Suggested Ideas, cause this topic is linked so often and there are tons of other suggestions, which are somehow linked with this topic.
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Re: What do biters do in their spare time? (Pheromone pathfind)

Post by MeduSalem » Thu Jun 02, 2016 8:17 pm

ssilk wrote:I moved it now to Frequently Suggested Ideas, cause this topic is linked so often and there are tons of other suggestions, which are somehow linked with this topic.
... and I went like "Bwahhh?! Someone removed one of my favorite topics?" earlier this morning because I couldn't find it anymore under the general ideas. xD

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Re: What do biters do in their spare time? (Pheromone pathfind)

Post by ssilk » Thu Jun 02, 2016 9:55 pm

Hehe.
This subject is a bit different to others, cause there are not much ideas around it (cause the idea itself is really simple?).

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