New Types of Belts (And why they are NOT a Good Idea!)

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ssilk
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New Types of Belts (And why they are NOT a Good Idea!)

Post by ssilk » Thu Apr 21, 2016 9:41 pm

This article is about the current know status of the belts in the game and why there is little to no chance, that new types of belts will be added.


This article has a sister: viewtopic.php?f=6&t=518 Smart Splitter (-Suggestions will never End)
Sean Mirrsen wrote:A big part of what makes this game feel like an awesome dynamic puzzle is that you have to construct your factories out of a number of simple, fundamentally limited tools.
First of all a pic: This is, what the devs think as a good game with the belts (taken from the screenshoot-section)

Image

You see all that mess, the irregular usage of belts, the chaos. We can assume that this is wanted, that this is part of the game, because it is in the screenshoot-section.

Before continuing you need also to know, that the devs play with some new stuff, that will come, namely the "Rapid inserter".

And there are a lot other suggestions about extending existing belts. Namely smart belts or smart splitters for example (viewtopic.php?f=80&t=21106 Smart Conveyor Belts (also Smart Splitters) / Belt Extension). Or belts, that needs power to run (viewtopic.php?f=6&t=21921 Poll: Should belts use energy (and Offshore Pumps etc...)).
Such suggestion have a much higher chance to be implemented somehow, cause such items increase the game-vaiue, but don't increase game-complexity that much.

There are some dozens of suggestions about new belts

I want to explain, why this is discussed over and over. A typical suggestion about new belts goes the following way:
User A (Newbie after 10 hours playing): I'm new and I suggest some new belt that does this and that, cause (eventually screenshoot-example, and to make things easier in general - see for example viewtopic.php?f=6&t=23791 Conveyor belt blocker - I took this out because it is a good and actual example, nothing is wrong with that).
User B (also Newbie with 20 hours): Yes! Cool idea, I also thought exactly the same!
User C (With 100 hours): Well, you know, the devs don't want to implement new types of belts. They say they want to have this messy, puzzling belts, cause they are part of the game.
User B: But this is just too complex! I want to have this, cause anybody, who want to make this (see description) has the same problem!
Moderator: Where is the game-value of a new belt type? This idea increases only the complexity, but not the game-value of Factorio. And in my opinion the belts don't need to be extended, cause as it is currently you can build everything you need. Do you know how to use the underground belts to achieve, what you want?
User A: How? I want just to separate the items, that is not possible yet.
User C: No, it is possible, look into the wiki or into the forum (some links).
User B: Even me didn't know this. :o But it takes much more space then!
User C: Well, in most cases you just need to move some things apart to make you enough space. And it's fun to find a solution, where you need just one tile more space. ;)
Moderator: I move this to "won't implement", cause it doesn't add new content, and it is already possible to implement new types of belts, see mods (some links).
User A: :shock: :o But this is really something I never would expect, that the belts could be used like so. :x I want to have the mods in the vanilla! :cry:
Moderator: That's also part of the game. :)
User A: I see my freedom of speech in danger, cause you put my suggestion just to won't implement! :evil:
Moderator: Well, you can continue discussion or just continue playing and if you are the same opinion with more than 50 game-hours, you can repeat your suggestion and I promise it will not be moved to won't implement that soon. :)

... half a year later ...

User D (Newbie after 10 hours playing): I suggest some new belt that does this and that, cause (to make things easier in general).
User A (now with more than 50 game-hours): I have suggested the same half a year ago and it was a stupid idea, cause (see some reasons above).
So as you see, the reason for this neverending suggestions are:
- New users don't know the special abilities of the belts, especially the underground belts. They think the complexity of the belts are limited.
- But they aren't limited. The belts in Factorio look quite simple, but they have a steady learning curve: Even me finds every 1-3 month a new trick how to use the belts.
- Which means, the game lacks here some tutorial or introduction.
- Which also mean: The game doesn't need new types of belts, but it needs a tutorial.

Luckily this is planned: The devs think about some kind of "training mode", where you can learn (during you play a map) how to play with some special item.

Until then here the "simplified ssilk-training-mode" for you :)

https://wiki.factorio.com/Belt_transport_system
https://wiki.factorio.com/Balancers
viewtopic.php?f=18&t=3211 evenly feed a full belt onto one side (side insert)

Image Image Image Image Image

That are just some of the most stupid examples. There are a lot, lot, lot more of such "tricks"!
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Re: New Types of Belts (NOT!)

Post by seronis » Thu Apr 21, 2016 10:02 pm

It has a tutorial for belts already. Built into the game as challenge levels. If no one ever does those thats their problem

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Re: New Types of Belts (NOT!)

Post by ssilk » Thu Apr 21, 2016 10:05 pm

I don't want to explain that in detail, but what I know about that training is, that you open up those levels, while you research them the first times and you can switch into them at every time.
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Re: New Types of Belts (NOT!)

Post by aeros1 » Sat Aug 06, 2016 3:22 am

ssilk wrote:I don't want to explain that in detail, but what I know about that training is, that you open up those levels, while you research them the first times and you can switch into them at every time.
Ssilk have you found solution to check up belts back up status. I found with one scaner belt and 2 splitters. Well that one easy really. But it reliably checks if there is movement on the belt or not.

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Re: New Types of Belts (And why they are NOT a Good Idea!)

Post by ssilk » Mon Sep 19, 2016 2:45 pm

You can turn the belt into pulse-mode and count how many items move on them per second. If that falls below a number it is standing.
Or you count how many items are on them (6 or 8, depends on how long the belt behind the counter is when filled). See viewtopic.php?f=193&t=32793
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