Hi, and welcome to belt hell

Post pictures and videos of your factories.
If possible, please post also the blueprints/maps of your creations!
For art/design etc. you can go to Fan Art.

Kevin94
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Re: Hi, and welcome to belt hell

Post by Kevin94 »

iklarazu wrote:
Garm wrote:stop with "copper cable - belt - no" adage: it is not always true.

While these who dont understand complexity about copper cable should stick to it, there are ways to avoid the problem (or never have said problem if you use Productivity modules)
Always true. Genuinely no reason cables should be on the belt. Nor sulfur for that matter. One material goes in (copper plate,) two come out (cables.) 2 rotations to empty the assembler.

It is more effective to deposit the cable directly into another assembler, as they benefit from inserter stack bonuses. Even with productivity modules.
One copper cable assembler can feed 8 advanced circuit assemblers, if you fill both with productivity 3 modules it can feed even more (11.2 assemblers). Show me how to realize this with only direct insertion.

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Re: Hi, and welcome to belt hell

Post by n9103 »

8 is easy. need more than 8? make it 16 then.

Code: Select all

 PA&AP
 A<<<A
>>\C^<<
 A>>^A
 PA&AP
P=providers  A=AC Assemb.  C = copper wire  & = longhanded copper plate insertion
Rest represents a plastic and circuits belts into a whirlpool/loop.
Specifics are up to the builder, I'm not gonna make a 144 character grid for ya! :P
Colonel Failure wrote:You can lose your Ecologist Badge quite quickly once you get to the point of just being able to murder them willy-nilly without a second care in the world.

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Re: Hi, and welcome to belt hell

Post by Garm »

n9103 wrote:8 is easy. need more than 8? make it 16 then.

Code: Select all

 PA&AP
 A<<<A
>>\C^<<
 A>>^A
 PA&AP
P=providers  A=AC Assemb.  C = copper wire  & = longhanded copper plate insertion
Rest represents a plastic and circuits belts into a whirlpool/loop.
Specifics are up to the builder, I'm not gonna make a 144 character grid for ya! :P

Problem with these designs is that they cannot be incorporated into larger factories and scaled up easily. Because people have deemed wires on a belt as "nonsense" they now have to resort to such awkward solutions, even though simple belt design is more than enough

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Re: Hi, and welcome to belt hell

Post by iklarazu »

Garm wrote:There are designs where it is much more preferable to conserve space.
I guess this is where we differ then, as I don't build to conserve space. I build to facilitate expansion. I don't quite understand the philosophy behind building an empire with a tiny footprint.

I appreciate you incorporate belts into your design and this works for you, but it is not welcome in my games :)
Kevin94 wrote:
iklarazu wrote:
Garm wrote:stop with "copper cable - belt - no" adage: it is not always true.

While these who dont understand complexity about copper cable should stick to it, there are ways to avoid the problem (or never have said problem if you use Productivity modules)
Always true. Genuinely no reason cables should be on the belt. Nor sulfur for that matter. One material goes in (copper plate,) two come out (cables.) 2 rotations to empty the assembler.

It is more effective to deposit the cable directly into another assembler, as they benefit from inserter stack bonuses. Even with productivity modules.
One copper cable assembler can feed 8 advanced circuit assemblers, if you fill both with productivity 3 modules it can feed even more (11.2 assemblers). Show me how to realize this with only direct insertion.
I still build red circuits in a very similar fashion to green actually; 1 copper cable assembler to 2 red circuit assembler. I admit this is probably wrong, but I do it for symmetry!

You could quite easily utilise this design, though it would require use of storage chests (limited to 1 stack) to maintain the item stack bonus.

I'm at work so please excuse the MSPaint job :D

Blue boxes are assemblers, brown for storage chests, and the red dashes are inserters (use blue inserters, the red was simply to separate the colours.)
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n9103
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Re: Hi, and welcome to belt hell

Post by n9103 »

Garm wrote:Problem with these designs is that they cannot be incorporated into larger factories and scaled up easily.
If someone cannot incorporate what is probably the most modular design there is that still uses belts, then helping them is beyond my ability. Or at least beyond my patience.

I think this is a basic conflict of design philosophies. You focus on making the production as compact as possible, regardless of production efficiency. (Blue belts everywhere? Talk about inefficient costs.)
Most of the community here prefers to expand to reasonable degrees if it facilitates the speed of production.
A couple people expand at any cost. A couple do anything to avoid expansion.
These groups' design philosophies aren't fully compatible, their members tend to believe that their way is best (more often than not), and many of the ideas will not peaceably transfer from one style to another because of the basic differences.
Just the way things are when you have a sandbox game that incorporates such a complex system as we have here.
Colonel Failure wrote:You can lose your Ecologist Badge quite quickly once you get to the point of just being able to murder them willy-nilly without a second care in the world.

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Re: Hi, and welcome to belt hell

Post by immibis »

iklarazu wrote: Always true. Genuinely no reason cables should be on the belt.
The reason is "so you don't waste assemblers".

One copper cable assembler with speed modules can feed something like 12 advanced circuit assemblers with productivity modules.

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Re: Hi, and welcome to belt hell

Post by iklarazu »

immibis wrote:
iklarazu wrote: Always true. Genuinely no reason cables should be on the belt.
The reason is "so you don't waste assemblers".

One copper cable assembler with speed modules can feed something like 12 advanced circuit assemblers with productivity modules.
I don't consider assemblers a waste. I have built more assemblers than needed for the job many times, they'll still only ever use as much or as little resource as needed. It's more efficient on power consumption sure, but that's about it.

The materials used to craft assemblers is nothing in the grand scheme of things.

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Re: Hi, and welcome to belt hell

Post by immibis »

n9103 wrote:8 is easy. need more than 8? make it 16 then.

Code: Select all

 PA&AP
 A<<<A
>>\C^<<
 A>>^A
 PA&AP
P=providers  A=AC Assemb.  C = copper wire  & = longhanded copper plate insertion
Rest represents a plastic and circuits belts into a whirlpool/loop.
Specifics are up to the builder, I'm not gonna make a 144 character grid for ya! :P
But why would you make a special arrangement for it, when you could put it on a belt like in any other factory, without causing any problems?

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Re: Hi, and welcome to belt hell

Post by n9103 »

Other than avoiding putting wires on belts? Other than being easily adaptable to fully logistic control and supply? Other than being easily blueprinted and recreated however many times you want, with only two belts of supply, or just one if you go for production modules?
No reason I guess.
Colonel Failure wrote:You can lose your Ecologist Badge quite quickly once you get to the point of just being able to murder them willy-nilly without a second care in the world.

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Re: Hi, and welcome to belt hell

Post by immibis »

n9103 wrote:Other than avoiding putting wires on belts?
... which is not a reason.
n9103 wrote:Other than being easily adaptable to fully logistic control and supply?
Belt-based layouts are more flexible than direct insertion.
n9103 wrote:Other than being easily blueprinted and recreated however many times you want
Belts can also be blueprinted.
n9103 wrote:with only two belts of supply, or just one if you go for production modules?
so?

Half these reasons are just restatements of "If you don't use belts you can have less belts". Duh. But why would I want less belts?

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Re: Hi, and welcome to belt hell

Post by n9103 »

ad hominim as a defense for ad hominim. Ok.
Colonel Failure wrote:You can lose your Ecologist Badge quite quickly once you get to the point of just being able to murder them willy-nilly without a second care in the world.

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Re: Hi, and welcome to belt hell

Post by Garm »

None of these arguments were ad hominem


This discussion is not about enforcing people to put cables on belts: they can do whatever they please. Point is not to become stuck in archaic thinking "cables on belts is bad" and keep an open mind about it, because there are some times, when it is not only plausible solution, but also best one. Both in terms of space, speed, and footprints.

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Re: Hi, and welcome to belt hell

Post by Zourin »

Brilliant!


And yes, I've done cables on belts. It's not bad. It's a critter that can get out of hand easily, but it's not an evil. Evil is using a cable-on-belt design in multiplayer and watching the OCD's freak the F out.

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Re: Hi, and welcome to belt hell

Post by The Phoenixian »

Did someone mention copper wires on belts?

Image

Though with a setup like this, copper wires on belts are probably the least of my crimes.
The greatest gulf that we must leap is the gulf between each other's assumptions and conceptions. To argue fairly, we must reach consensus on the meanings and values of basic principles. -Thereisnosaurus

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Re: Hi, and welcome to belt hell

Post by DerivePi »

Zourin wrote:Brilliant!


And yes, I've done cables on belts. It's not bad. It's a critter that can get out of hand easily, but it's not an evil. Evil is using a cable-on-belt design in multiplayer and watching the OCD's freak the F out.
I thought it was a prerequisite for Factorios to be OCD. Of course I'm all for shifting the organized pens on their desk too.

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Re: Hi, and welcome to belt hell

Post by n9103 »

DerivePi wrote:
Zourin wrote:Brilliant!


And yes, I've done cables on belts. It's not bad. It's a critter that can get out of hand easily, but it's not an evil. Evil is using a cable-on-belt design in multiplayer and watching the OCD's freak the F out.
I thought it was a prerequisite for Factorios to be OCD. Of course I'm all for shifting the organized pens on their desk too.
*sneaks into Pi's place and nudges all the picture frames off-kilter*

How's it feel now? Leave our pens alone damnit! :P
Colonel Failure wrote:You can lose your Ecologist Badge quite quickly once you get to the point of just being able to murder them willy-nilly without a second care in the world.

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Re: Hi, and welcome to belt hell

Post by iklarazu »

The Phoenixian wrote:Though with a setup like this, copper wires on belts are probably the least of my crimes.
One of many ;)

I've started a fresh game on Factorio. I've not played at all since the birth of 11.2. I figured that as I moan a lot about cables on belts, I'd show how I do my green circuits, with buffer boxes.

I'm about 4hrs in so I don't have a huge need for circuits, yet... (click for full pic)

Image

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Re: Hi, and welcome to belt hell

Post by Cordylus »

This is the belt hell from my factory:
Everything works perfectly... :)
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Re: Hi, and welcome to belt hell

Post by teddy268 »

this is from a old save i have
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