Smart Train Deliveries with Combinator Magick [0.13/0.14]

[siggboy]

Hi, quick update since I haven't posted in a while.

The 0.13 version is practically finished. I'm currently making a new demo map and testing if everything works.

New features:

• Requester stations count incoming resources (I had this in 0.12 but never published it). This creates a much more efficient train scheduler.
• Providers can now provide more than one item type. The expected resource is held in a register so you can set an inserter filter -- this brings with it some problems that are unrelated to the train scheduler, but in principle it works.
• The depot can have multiple outgoing lanes (another thing I did have in my private version for 0.12).
• Setting up new outposts has become a lot easier, since you do not have to set the station number manually any more (SmartTrains provides this information now; thanks to Choumiko for adding this feature on request).

Internal changes:

• New wire protocol to better accomodate multi-product providers and make the outpost circuits a little smaller.
• Outpost circuits are smaller now, even though we've added features. (Requester 10 combinators, Provider 15 combinators).
• The new wire protocol makes polling for a schedule a little faster.

The depot is bigger now (~50 combinator), it could probably be optimized but I'm not going to do that right now. It's not braindead and works fine, and it has to be built only once.

Right now there's a bug in SmartTrains which makes updating the line with new outposts very tedious or even impractical. So we need for this to get fixed. I'll also complete the demo map and run a few more tests, then I'll make a release here.

[Nexela]

Awesome, can't wait to try it out!

[NoriSilverrage]

Sounds awesome!

[siggboy]

Hi guys,

so, here, finally is the version 3 for Factorio 0.13. Update: This is a tested version that should work 100% (tested in a real game over many hours). In any case, it's complex stuff so don't assume it will be an easy ride. There is no update path from version 2, you'd have to replace all the outpost circuits and the depots.

Please take the demo map and try it out. Also, get the blueprints from the demo save, publishing blueprint strings doesn't really make sense without extensive documentation -- I'd like for everybody who wants to use the blueprints to at least have loaded into the demo map once .

Couple of points:

• The smart displays are attached to the interesting read outs. These are the points you should pay special attention to, because they're either configuration interfaces, or store important state.
• New feature: resource counting. The requester will be notified when a train leaves the depot, and keep track of the incoming resources. This is not counted "by train", but rather the amount that the provider "promised" is taken into account.
• New feature: providers can provide more than one resource type. This is not featured on the demo map, because it requires additional circuitry to make the loading process work. However, the provider does receive the information which resource (and how much) it is supposed to load into the next train. So you can build your own loader circuit using that information (mind you it's NOT done with setting the filter on the inserter, mixed wagons can be the result).
• New feature: multiple depot lanes. The demo map features 3 lanes, but you could have more. In my experience, 3 lanes is already enough for probably even the biggest of setups.
• I've found a way to handle oil barrels nicely without having to make any sort of special solution. It would have been possible with version 2 even (but I didn't think of it). Basically the route the train takes for oil is Depot > Provider > Requester > Refinery > Depot (and the requester is the outpost! and it does request empty! barrels, the provider provides empty barrels).

Station numbers do NOT have to be set manually any longer! That information is now taken from SmartTrains. The only configuration necessary (after the initial installation) is setting the resource types and limits for a new outpost. The rest is all blueprinted; expanding the network has become really easy now.

If you use modded ores (or other resources that you want to ship that are not part of Vanilla), you need to add those to the two groups of combinators at the top.
The left two combinators simply list all possible resources in order (lower numbers mean higher priority for delivery, but it usually should not matter much). The right two combinators list how many of each resource fits into a train wagon (e.g. 2,000 for ores and 4,000 for plates).
If you use a mod that adds new resources then you have to add these here. If needed, add more constant combinators and add them to the chain.
Sorry for the inconvenience.

Initial setup, depot (in some detail):

1. Install the depot and the desired number of depot lanes; a single lane is absolutely sufficient for small to medium scenarios. Connect the depot with the lanes on the appropriate bus by green and red wire. Set the signals in the lanes accordingly so each one is different and the values are increasing from 1. Set the total number of lanes (plus 1) in the counter at the lane selector. All the stations at the lanes need to have the same name (e.g. "Depot"). It might be easiest if you simply copy the entire lane setup from the demo map (make a blueprint containing all 3 of the outgoing lanes).
2. Put a train on the rail and send it to the Depot (the lane selector should now pick that lane; it's indicated with a lamp). Set the number of wagons per train in the appropriate combinator (arithmetic combinator in the top row of the depot circuit); the number has to be set as a negative number ("-4" => "4 wagons per train).
3. Set the Depot as the first station of the train schedule of the new train. Set the leave condition to be a "circuit condition: signal D > 0". Save the train schedule in SmartTrains, under a new name. This will be the main train line where all the trains and stations will get added. In the train line rules (SmartTrains UI), check the box "Signal #"; save the line configuration afterwards.
4. Set the number of expected total outposts in the constant combinator at the bottom left side of the depot. Setting this number a little higher than necessary is not a problem, so only if you're optimizing for every tenth of a second of train response time you need to adjust this. In general, set it to a sufficiently large value (100 or 200) and never touch it again.
5. Connect the depot to the red wire bus. The red wire bus must run along your railroad and connect to all of the outposts.

Disconnecting the depot while trains are running: notice the combinator that puts "D=1" onto the red bus. That's the station number of the depot, it's used by the requester stations to know where to return (it's just so the requester circuit is a bit smaller and you can change the depot number globally; probably I've over-optimized this aspect of the system). If you disconnect the depot behind this combinator, then the requesters won't know any longer how to send the trains back to the depot. This is bad, because then the trains will continue on their normal schedule, which is almost always completely wrong.
So if you find yourself disconnecting the depot regularly, make sure that you put the "D=1" constant combinator somewhere else on the red wire bus, where it's always connected. Then you can disconnect the depot whenever you want to stop sending out new trains.

Setting up a provider station (if all of your providers are ore outposts, then this boils down to blueprinting the outpost and adding the station to SmartTrains; no configuration necessary at all):

1. Install the blueprint for a provider station. Do not connect to the red wire bus yet. Do not connect power yet.
2. Connect all the input buffer chests to the input of the circuit (on the left, where the reference chest is in the blueprint). In the decider combinator that takes that input, you should set the minimum amount of resources that the provider needs to have in the buffer. Usually this value is set to at least one train load, and the exact value depends on the type of resource. For a mining outpost, it will usually be set to (2000 * number_of_wagons).
3. Give the provider station a name, and add it to the END of the train schedule of one of the existing trains in the network. Set the leave condition accordingly (most often it will be "Leave when cargo full"). Save the train line in the SmartTrains UI. Set the rule "go to signal #" in SmartTrains and save the updated line.
4. Check the constant combinator of the train station. It should output the station number now.
5. Connect power. Connect the outpost to the red wire bus.

Setting up a requester station (very similar to providers, only you set the resources and amounts that it will request):

1. Install the blueprint for a requester station. Do not connect to the red wire bus yet. Do not connect power yet.
2. Connect all the output buffer chests to the circuit.
3. The unloading inserters (between wagon and buffer chests) need to output in "pulse mode" and be connected to the appropriate circuit (arithmetic combinator that multiplies by -1). Daisy chain all inserters for this to work.
4. In the constant combinator, set the desired resources and amounts as negative number (e.g. "-2000 Copper Ore" would request Copper Ore when the buffer has less than 2,000 of it). You can request as many different resources as you want (then you need to sort the incoming cargo).
5. Add the train station to the train schedule, save it in SmartTrains, set the "Signal #" rule in SmartTrains, save again.
6. The constant combinator inside the train station should now output the station number.
7. Connect power. Connect the outpost to the red wire bus. (This will probably trigger a train departure at the depot, so soon a train will arrive with resources.)

Reordering stations: You should always add new outposts to the very end of the line. This can be done while the trains are running, nothing will go wrong.

If you remove a station from the schedule, then that changes all the station numbers after the station you've removed.
Obviously, if you do that while the trains are running, chaos is ensured.

So, if you want to remove old outposts from the schedule, then first suspend the depot. This can be done by disabling the combinator that outputs "S=1", at the left side of the depot.
Then wait for all trains to return to the depot.
Now you can rearrange the train line as you see fit (the depot should always be the first station in the line, unless you've changed that; not recommended). When you're done, save the train line in SmartTrains, check that all the signal conditions are still correct, and re-enable the combinators at the resource selector.
This should allow a smooth operation.

In general, it's easiest to always add new stations to the end, and if you remove a station, then replace it by a new one. If you do that, then the station numbers of existing stations will never change, and you can leave the scheduler running without having to go through the update shenanigans described above.
You can also remove old outposts, but leave them in the train schedule (they will be red, and they'll still be part of the SmartTrains line). When you create a new outpost, put it in place of the old one. Then save the new line. This will also leave all existing station numbers unchanged, so it can be done while the system is running. It's somewhat risky, because mistakes are awkward.

I'll leave it at that for now, please post your questions here. One day I'll write a lot more documentation, but not now .

Enjoy.

Required mod: SmartTrains (always use the latest release from GitHub: https://github.com/Choumiko/SmartTrains/releases/latest)
Required mods for the demo map: download the mods.zip and use that.

Update (19/08/2016): New depot circuit, reworked, extended, bugs fixed. Minor change to provider circuit (recommended update).

[siggboy]

Here's an overview of the depot (Update: this is not the current version, general principles still apply, implementation differs.)

• The registers are special purpose registers (write-once). They take 1 tick of input, and then go into write lock automatically. The erase signal is "E" and it will be sent when a train leaves the depot (to service a request). You can erase the registers manually by putting "E=1" into them (the bottom of the three combinators in each group holds the value and receives the erase signal), that should usually only be done while the depot is disconnected from the bus.
• Selecting a single signal from an arbitrary set of input signals is not easy to do. That's why the resource selection and the lane selection requires so many combinators.
• The "resource priority" combinators show the order in which the candidate resources are evaluated for delivery. You can change the order if you want, but it should usually not be necessary. If you play with mods, then you need the resources here (the values need to be unique). E.g. you'd add "Uranium" to the end of the list if you play with a nuclear mod.
• The "stack size" combinators hold how many of each item fits into a train wagon. It's part of the circuit that caps the resource count to 1 train load (so we won't promise the requester station more resources than we're actually going to deliver). Doing it this way requires a few combinators at the depot, but it saves complexity and configuration effort for the outposts.
• There's room for optimization in the depot circuit, but mostly it's fine.

depot.png (821.93 KiB) Viewed 10465 times

[marcelgrilo]

It would be awesome if there were a YouTube video explaining all this...

[siggboy]

You're the second person who asks for a video. Maybe I'll actually make one.

[zucka]

This is Awesome!

Trying different things out in the demo map. ( hooking request into logistics network and stuff )

But in the guide for setting up requester stations you are not mentioning anything about connecting the inserters that take from train up to the arithmetic combinator.
Did you forget it or am I doing stuff wrong ?

[siggboy]

But in the guide for setting up requester stations you are not mentioning anything about connecting the inserters that take from train up to the arithmetic combinator.
Did you forget it or am I doing stuff wrong ?

I forgot that. Thanks for pointing it out, I'll edit the documentation.

The inserter needs to be connected to that combinator so the items being unloaded are subtracted from the register that stores incoming items. The inserter also has to be set to "count hand contents in pulse mode".

There's another solution for this, and it's taking the count from the train station combinator. Actually that was how I did it at first, and also in 0.12 when inserters couldn't count items. It's a little more convenient in that you don't have to think about connecting the inserter, but it does require more combinators and is more difficult to understand (what you do is use a negative edge detector on the cargo load changing, and you also have to put a constant combinator at the station so you can filter all the status signals and only get the cargo; it's clever, but also a bit clumsy). That's why I went with taking the count from the inserter directly.

Since you usually blueprint a complete station with everything connected, including inserters and all the unloading setup, this should not be a problem in practice.

[marcelgrilo]

do i need the smart displays mod(or any orher used on the demomap) on my game to make this beta v3 run? i tried the demomap only with smart trains but grains got stuck at depot(with all the mods enabled it worked obviously). I tried it on my main game too, following strictly the beta doc, but when i put my requester nothing happens, no train gets out from depot to providers then requester=/

[siggboy]

do i need the smart displays mod(or any orher used on the demomap) on my game to make this beta v3 run? i tried the demomap only with smart trains but grains got stuck at depot(with all the mods enabled it worked obviously). I tried it on my main game too, following strictly the beta doc, but when i put my requester nothing happens, no train gets out from depot to providers then requester=/

The smart displays are only informational, they are not required for the circuits to function.

The demo map also uses Creative Mode to fill and empty the chests, generate oil etc. If you disable it then there will be no supply and demand and the demo setup will not do much. The Creative Mode power source also provides power; with no power supply nothing will work at all.

If you can send me a save of your main game I can have a look.

[marcelgrilo]

marcelgrilo wrote:
do i need the smart displays mod(or any orher used on the demomap) on my game to make this beta v3 run? i tried the demomap only with smart trains but grains got stuck at depot(with all the mods enabled it worked obviously). I tried it on my main game too, following strictly the beta doc, but when i put my requester nothing happens, no train gets out from depot to providers then requester=/

The smart displays are only informational, they are not required for the circuits to function.

The demo map also uses Creative Mode to fill and empty the chests, generate oil etc. If you disable it then there will be no supply and demand and the demo setup will not do much. The Creative Mode power source also provides power; with no power supply nothing will work at all.

If you can send me a save of your main game I can have a look.

I just found the solution of my problem.
The second decider combinator(from top to bottom) on the resource selector had a very big value, 8388608,that i suppose it is the floor value of items for a train to depart(im not sure).
i just put a lower value and it start working

Thanks!!!

[doxsroxs]

Your info.json file is empty or corrupt in the download, this triggers an error when trying to start the game.

Im not sure if this is just me getting a corrupt download several times or what the reason is

[doxsroxs]

Your info.json file is empty or corrupt in the download, this triggers an error when trying to start the game.

Im not sure if this is just me getting a corrupt download several times or what the reason is

Ok, dont laugh! I blame sleep depravation due to excessive Factorio interest disorder...

For everyone else that are masters of fast copy/paste before thinking. The Train Demo 0.13.zip need to go into your save games folder

[doxsroxs]

Ok, got everything up and running but something is wrong.

The first thing that happens is that a train full or ore will get stuck on station 5, Barrel loading. Since the condition is for it to load 200 barrels or more it will jsut get stuck.
I tried resolving that by simply removing some ore, then I notice that the train seems to go through ALL stations in order. From what I understand this is not the purpose of this mod

Ill try reloading mods again to ONLY have the ones you have in your .zip.

Edit

Seems to work now, and after some testing I think it is SmartTrains_0.4.6.zip that breaks everything. I downloaded it from the link as you wrote in your instructions.
Ill just run with version 0.4.4 meanwhile since it seems to work

[siggboy]

The second decider combinator(from top to bottom) on the resource selector had a very big value, 8388608,that i suppose it is the floor value of items for a train to depart(im not sure).
i just put a lower value and it start working

I'm not quite sure right now what combinator you mean, but I can explain what the number means.

It's not the floor value of anything.

The depot tries to find the resource to ship before it selects the provider and requester. Let's call this "phase 1" of the selection process.

During phase 1, the signal "S = 1" gets put on the bus. The outposts respond to this signal as follows:

The provider will respond with the amount and type of the resources that it can provide. The amount is not interesting at this point, so the provider could also respond with a value of "1" or any random value, it does not matter.

The requester will respond with the number 8388608 (for each resource requested) which happens to be 2^23.

All the outposts will respond simultaneously, so all the responses will be added together on the wire.

Let's make a very simple example with one provider and one requester. The only resource is Copper Ore.

The provider has 5000 Copper Ore, so it will respond with "Copper Ore 5000". The requester wants Copper Ore, so it will respond with 8388608 (2^23).

The responses will be added together to 8393608, but that number is meaningless, so we have to decode it.

Since we're only interested in resources that have a provider and a requester at this moment, first we filter only responses that are GREATER than 2^23. So if there's no requester for the resource, it will be filtered out (unless your providers have more than 8 million of that resource in their buffers, which is possible but rather unlikely).

Now we multiply the remaining values by 1024 (2^10). To understand why, you need to acknowledge that combinators cannot store numbers that are greater than 2^31-1. The number 2^31 is treated as the largest negative number, i.e. -2^31, and if you subtract 1 from that, the result will be ZERO (i.e. disappear), because there are not enough bits to store -2^31-1.

In any case, if you multiply by a large enough value, you will eliminate all the bits that are necessary to represent values greater than 2^23. The remaining bits will be the responses from the providers (added together and multiplied by 1024).

So any signals that remain at this point will be resources that have both been advertised by the requesters and the providers, i.e. any of these resources would be candidates for delivery.

(Actually it would be sufficient to multiply by 512, I've changed this bit of the circuit a few times and the 1024 stuck.)

It helps to write down the values in binary and look at how the bits are shifted if you want to understand this. You can also use the Windows calculator in programmer mode, that will show you the binary representation of these numbers.

[siggboy]

I tried resolving that by simply removing some ore, then I notice that the train seems to go through ALL stations in order.

If the train goes through all the stations it means it doesn't receive the signal from the train stops that tells it where to go next.

If you say you use additional mods I'd be curious how any of these could break the setup.

[doxsroxs]

I tried resolving that by simply removing some ore, then I notice that the train seems to go through ALL stations in order.

If the train goes through all the stations it means it doesn't receive the signal from the train stops that tells it where to go next.

If you say you use additional mods I'd be curious how any of these could break the setup.

Thats a fast reply, cool!
Anyway, I just edited my post above and you might have just missed it.

But it seems to work now, and after some testing I think it is SmartTrains_0.4.6.zip that breaks everything. I downloaded it from the link as you wrote in your instructions.
Ill just run with version 0.4.4 meanwhile since it seems to work

[doxsroxs]

Aaaand now that I started adding all my other mods I get the following issue:



Any tips on how to fix this?
Im a noob at this and would rather not have to go through each and every one of my currently installed mods to review which one it might be, most importantly, Id rather not restart a multiplayer game Im running with a friend due to mod incompatibility

If need be Ill try and mod the stuff myself but as I wrote above, Id appreciate any help on the matter

EDIT, current mod list:
"Factorio\mods\RailTanker_1.3.32.zip"
"Factorio\mods\research-queue_1.3.0.zip"
"Factorio\mods\rso-mod_2.0.11.zip"
"Factorio\mods\SmallFixes_0.1.21.zip"
"Factorio\mods\SmartDisplay_1.0.12.zip"
"Factorio\mods\test-mode_0.13.1.zip"
"Factorio\mods\TheFatController_0.4.18.zip"
"Factorio\mods\TimeTools_1.0.21.zip"
"Factorio\mods\tree_collision_0.3.0.zip"
"Factorio\mods\true-long-reach_0.1.0.zip"
"Factorio\mods\upgrade-planner_1.2.4.zip"
"Factorio\mods\UraniumPower_0.6.4.zip"
"Factorio\mods\YARM_0.7.102.zip"
"Factorio\mods\alien-science_0.1.1.zip"
"Factorio\mods\AutoDeconstruct_0.1.2.zip"
"Factorio\mods\autofill_1.4.1.zip"
"Factorio\mods\AutoTrash_0.1.7.zip"
"Factorio\mods\Big_Brother_0.3.2.zip"
"Factorio\mods\blueprint-string_3.1.1.zip"
"Factorio\mods\bobassembly_0.13.0.zip"
"Factorio\mods\bobconfig_0.13.1.zip"
"Factorio\mods\bobelectronics_0.13.1.zip"
"Factorio\mods\bobelectronics_gfxtweak_0.13.0.zip"
"Factorio\mods\bobenemies_0.13.1.zip"
"Factorio\mods\bobgreenhouse_0.13.2.zip"
"Factorio\mods\bobinserters_0.13.3.zip"
"Factorio\mods\boblibrary_0.13.1.zip"
"Factorio\mods\boblogistics_0.13.7.zip"
"Factorio\mods\bobmining_0.13.1.zip"
"Factorio\mods\bobmodules_0.13.0.zip"
"Factorio\mods\bobores_0.13.1.zip"
"Factorio\mods\bobplates_0.13.2.zip"
"Factorio\mods\bobpower_0.13.1.zip"
"Factorio\mods\bobrevamp_0.13.0.zip"
"Factorio\mods\bobtech_0.13.0.zip"
"Factorio\mods\bobtechsave_0.13.0.zip"
"Factorio\mods\bobwarfare_0.13.4.zip"
"Factorio\mods\BridgeRailway_2.0.2.zip"
"Factorio\mods\combat-robot-lifeline_0.13.1.zip"
"Factorio\mods\Compression Chests_1.3.10.zip"
"Factorio\mods\Crafting_Speed_Research_0.1.2.zip"
"Factorio\mods\creative-mode_0.1.1.zip"
"Factorio\mods\Drones_1.0.17.zip"
"Factorio\mods\EvoGUI_0.4.107.zip"
"Factorio\mods\Expanded_Robot_Tech_0.4.1.zip"
"Factorio\mods\FARL_0.5.36.zip"
"Factorio\mods\Foreman_0.2.4.zip"
"Factorio\mods\InitialScan_0.1.4.zip"
"Factorio\mods\KBlueprints_1.1.7.zip"
"Factorio\mods\Landfill_2.1.10.zip"
"Factorio\mods\Larger Inventory_1.0.1.zip"
"Factorio\mods\launch-control_0.2.0.zip"
"Factorio\mods\mod-list.json"
"Factorio\mods\ModuleInserter_0.2.1.zip"
"Factorio\mods\Orbital Ion Cannon_1.3.1.zip"

[doxsroxs]

Ok, like I said Im totally new at this, but Im currently trying to review all the migration scripts in all the mods I have on that list to see if any of them interfere.
I assume its one of Bobs mods.

Any tips on this part would be greatly appreciated, my plan is to ensure the items affected are not migrated.

Please let me know if this is not neccessary and just something connected to the test mode map.