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Here I was thinking this post was about Biters... MINDBLOWN

Yttrium wrote:Here I was thinking this post was about Biters... MINDBLOWN

i clicked this post from the "new posts" section, i thought it was a suggestion for the "bwaahhh bwaahhh" icon.
Definitely awesome though.... pointless (sowwie), but fucking awesome!! blueprint it

I wonder if there's any way to actually detect a biter attack, so as to trigger this? Maybe check to see if the # of repair packs in a chest suddenly goes down as construction bots go to repair damage?

Enemy sensors are going to be added in 0.13 if im not mistaken

If you're using laser turrets, you might be able to detect the spike in energy usage as they get zapped

There's no way to check power usage right now, though I've read that's coming in 0.13. At most you can check if your accumulators are near depletion using methods we all know well.

Gus_Smedstad wrote:There's no way to check power usage right now.

Power usage: https://forums.factorio.com/forum/vie ... 265#p93265.

At this moment in my factory I have next emergency protocol:
1: if accomulator's level is less than 30% - disable all available beacons in base and outposts (beacon's energy usage 68MW -> 13MW)
2: if accomulator's level is less than 10% - enable steam engines (+80MW)
Also, I can manually enable these instructions by sending specific signal in main network.
For example: I know that I will need lots of energy to defend incoming attack in 1 minute. So, I enable emergency protocol before this attack comes. And this is possible to do from any point in my factory (base or outpost).

Sensor for measuring accomulator's charge level: All these things were possible to build since 0.12.

UPDATE: I've forgot to mention: if you built exactly the same system as in this printscreen it will not work. Because you should build its components in a strict order and this order is a vital thing to make it works.

XKnight wrote:Power usage: https://forums.factorio.com/forum/vie ... 265#p93265.

That doesn't actually detect power usage. That's another accumulator near-empty detector, which is not the same thing.

The "drill idle" detector you mention in that thread is completely impractical for detecting a big uptick in power demand in a laser defense network, since it can only detect a decrease in power usage, not an increase. Not to mention that it only works if you're willing to power extensive sections of your base with steam power only, since it doesn't work with solar at all.

For an increase in power usage, you're back to detecting a particular accumulator going empty, which means you're way over-stressing your laser defense network. An attack will spike power demand for a few seconds, but if it's depleting your accumulators, it means you don't have nearly enough power reserves.

XKnight wrote:For example: I know that I will need lots of energy to defend incoming attack in 1 minute.

You know this how? Do you routinely save and reload?

Personally, I never, ever run into a situation where I'd want to do such a thing. I don't like attacks forcing a partial or complete shutdown of parts of my factory. I'd rather have a sufficient power reserve to deal with attacks, period, so that's what I build.

Gus_Smedstad wrote:

XKnight wrote:Power usage: https://forums.factorio.com/forum/vie ... 265#p93265.

That doesn't actually detect power usage. That's another accumulator near-empty detector, which is not the same thing.

Take a look on the "MORE PICTURES" section.

Gus_Smedstad wrote: The "drill idle" detector you mention in that thread is completely impractical for detecting a big uptick in power demand in a laser defense network, since it can only detect a decrease in power usage, not an increase. Not to mention that it only works if you're willing to power extensive sections of your base with steam power only, since it doesn't work with solar at all.

Probably, you've missed one thing: main network is separated from the detector, and can consist of solar panels (in my base steam engines are emergence power source, and they works very rarely, thanks to 30% restriction). What about detector - it always consists from 1 steam engine regardless outpost size.

Gus_Smedstad wrote:

XKnight wrote:For example: I know that I will need lots of energy to defend incoming attack in 1 minute.

You know this how? Do you routinely save and reload?

No, you can suggest invading time by looking on the biter's group size. Big - invading will be soon, small - I can relax.

Gus_Smedstad wrote: Personally, I never, ever run into a situation where I'd want to do such a thing. I don't like attacks forcing a partial or complete shutdown of parts of my factory. I'd rather have a sufficient power reserve to deal with attacks, period, so that's what I build.

It is just your personal emergency protocol: what is more important production or low pollution? As for me, low pollution is more important, because with my world settings I am not able to defend my base from a big wave.

Gus_Smedstad wrote: That doesn't actually detect power usage. That's another accumulator near-empty detector, which is not the same thing.

Just another idea: if you want to measure power usage you can measure difference between two consecutive measurements of accumulator's charge level:
first moment: 56% in accumulators
second: 52% in accumulators

first moment: 56% in accumulators
second: 40% in accumulators
Obviously, in second case energy usage is 4 times bigger than in first.

XKnight wrote:Take a look on the "MORE PICTURES" section.

MORE PICTURES doesn't change what you're doing. You have no way of actually measuring power - just detecting when an accumulator is drained, which is a well-known technique. A useful thing, but very different from testing live power usage when your power storage is relatively full.

XKnight wrote: Probably, you've missed one thing: main network is separated from the detector, and can consist of solar panels

No, I didn't miss that. I'm talking about the sub-network you are monitoring for power surplus. Your drills still have to be powered by steam, because your "drill detector" only works if the power source for the drills is extremely consistent, and produces no surplus normally. I'd rather use solar for everything, for the usual reasons - lower pollution and no consumption of resources.

And in any case, irrelevant to this thread, since it's completely unsuited for checking power status of lasers.

Gus_Smedstad wrote:No, you can suggest invading time by looking on the biter's group size. Big - invading will be soon, small - I can relax.

You have radar coverage of groups before they invade? They usually gather well outside mine.

XKnight wrote: Just another idea: if you want to measure power usage you can measure difference between two consecutive measurements of accumulator's charge level:
first moment: 56% in accumulators
second: 52% in accumulators

That'd be a start if there were any way to measure accumulator charge level with combinators.

Gus_Smedstad wrote: MORE PICTURES doesn't change what you're doing. You have no way of actually measuring power - just detecting when an accumulator is drained, which is a well-known technique. A useful thing, but very different from testing live power usage when your power storage is relatively full.

Hmmm... yes, you are right. I even didn't consider the case when accumulators are full and we want to measure energy usage, but i will think about this
Although I'm not sure in partical use of such thing.

Gus_Smedstad wrote: No, I didn't miss that. I'm talking about the sub-network you are monitoring for power surplus. Your drills still have to be powered by steam, because your "drill detector" only works if the power source for the drills is extremely consistent, and produces no surplus normally. I'd rather use solar for everything, for the usual reasons - lower pollution and no consumption of resources.

Yep, this build won't work if there is not enough accumualtors to supply everything with 100% energy. But I think it is a very rare situation.

Gus_Smedstad wrote: And in any case, irrelevant to this thread, since it's completely unsuited for checking power status of lasers.

I absolutely agree, but want to add "...power status of lasers, if laser's energy consumption is not comparable with overall consumption". But who cares of such situation?

Gus_Smedstad wrote: You have radar coverage of groups before they invade? They usually gather well outside mine.

It depends on group size, large groups are often become visible before invasion.

UPDATE:

Gus_Smedstad wrote: That'd be a start if there were any way to measure accumulator charge level with combinators.

Lol, but I am already doing this.
https://forums.factorio.com/forum/dow ... hp?id=5647